Ok, this is going nowhere. We're shutting down comments on this post. Please keep things constructive in other posts. We really don't want to start blocking people...

h t t p: // n e w s . b b c . c o . u k/2/hi/business/7070935.stm

h. t . t . p: // m o n e y . c n n . c o m /2007/11/12/real_estate/Cleveland_foreclosure_factors/index.htm

Well sir, neither top quality or character really register in my brain when I walk through the neighborhood I grew up in these days. I guess if I felt that way, I would have moved to Bellevue a long time ago.
*Why are you hating on the people of Bellevue? Because they have been smart enough to study hard, raise a family, and earn a decent living?

But, hey I just happen to prefer the trashy, “low quality” old Ballard I’ve always known. It so happens anyone I’ve spoken to that has lived in Ballard for five years or more doesn’t really like the direction its headed in either. My bet is that you and your friends you spoke of are all new to the neighborhood.
*No, you are wrong. I have lived in Ballard for 7 years. I dated a girl who worked at Wilsons Ford. I used to watch butt rock shows at the Firehouse. I remember when Ediths back yard was a trash pit and that general area was where all the bums slept in their cars/vans. Yup, I was here when it wasn't so hip. I liked it then, I like it more now. The rebirth of Ballard is very exciting to me and countless other residents with whom I have spoken.

Not going to hate on you for that,
*You just hated on me for some fiction that just materialized in that feeble mind of yours.

Ballard definitely pretty much been ruined at this point.
*Very sad that you consider new development where empty abandoned lots recently stood as "ruined". Maybe you should move to Cleveland or Detroit? There are plenty of abandoned lots, boarded up buildings, and a lack of quatlity jobs.

I’m happy I don’t live in Ballard anymore and only really come around when I feel like drinking in some of the decent bars that are still around.
*We have something in common. I like to have a beer in some of the decent bars myself.

Love making fun of all the suburban wannabe hipsters who flock there in pursuit of trendiness.
*I bet that makes you feel really good about yourself eh? Wow, you are such a renegade, old school Ballard rebel!

As for your earlier comments, I saw the phrase about “incessant whining” being brought up against a gentleman who made rather valid points.
*My inference about “incessant whining” was directed at the general attitude of people like you, Bill, Mary, and others who feel the need to complain about the economic success of our lovely neighborhood and city in general.

And I notice you sort of ridiculed the concept of “diversity” which really can easily be seen as having some really racist and/or classist undertones.
*Nope, again you are wrong. My intention was to point out that we have it really good in Seattle/Ballard. Our economy is strong, people want to live here, businesses want to locate here. If you want economic "diversity" (read: vacant lots, boarded up downtown buildings, no jobs) head to Cleveland or Detroit where they are getting hammered by the dying auto industry and the great depression of housing. I work with 3 people from Detroit, and 2 from Cleveland who have recently located here and have filled me in on just how bad those metro areas really are. Read all about it with a quick Google search. Here are a couple of examples, in case you can't figure out the Google thing. ;

Also.....speaking of classist undertones? Like your putdown of everyone from Bellevue?

Loved the way you called my comments negative.
*lol, sorry Dave. I just don't see you as a positive person.

Congratulations on a hard earned success by the way.
*Thank you.

I am a student working hard toward an engineering degree.
*Best of luck. My advice to you would be to lay off the alcohol a bit (especially on a Monday night) and spend more time with your nose in the books.

I’ll be sure to try very hard not to let the money change my perspective on people and the world as it has for some.
*Don't get too far ahead of yourself Dave. Lets get that Engineering degree first. Baby steps.

You probably don’t care just the same as I really don’t give a shit about your career and accomplishments.
*Oh wait, so your statement about congratulating me wasn't genuine?

Oh yeah by the way, loved your bullshit. “It’s your choice how you view the world though Dave…nobody has forced you into your personal viewpoints or feelings.” lol
*Not sure why you found this statement so amusing? One of Mahatma Gandhi's better quotes "Be the change that you want to see in the world".

OK, this has spiraled out of control. We deleted the nastiest comments from the bunch, and please folks, keep it civil or we WILL starting banning people (via IP addresses).

Ok people, please chill. :) Let's keep this a happy constructive blog.

Otherwise, you can snark over at seattle.livejournal.com instead.

Suthii-

Ron Paul just called - he wants back his copy of The Turner Diaries.

"you can just ignore him."

That's right Dave, just ignore me the way Bill does!

All it needs is a Volvo and Subaru dealership and Ballard will be great!

Dave, can I take it you're a little bitter because Seattle Met Mag didn't call you up for an opinion on how great Ballard has become?

Dave-

Suthii is a guy who sits around playing on the Internet all day, but thinks of himself of some kind of fantastic rugged individualist.

Really, you can just ignore him.

"neighborhood you don’t even like or respect?"

I love the neighborhood. Farmers market, galleries, coffee shops, organic food, nice cinema, and Collective, home of the $1000 credenza. Plus Trader Joes and Whole Foods coming!

Things are looking up, smile Dave, there's more to life than discount malt liquor!

Suthii, let me contribute to your kids therapy fund. Let's set up a non-profit.

"Is there a way to block him from the comments? "

Ahhh, democracy at work. Don't like what I say, just ban me. Got any books you'd like to burn this evening? Let me know, I'll bring a bottle of red and watch the tolerance fest.

"my family still owns 3 of em"

Wow, 3 ranch houses? That's what, equivalent to 2 trailer homes ?

Suthii =clearly miserable and has no life. why else does he comment so negatively and consistently? Is there a way to block him from the comments? I'm sick of him and I bet the myballard.com couple is too.

Dave - :) thanks.

"any hope of saving the neighborhood"

At $400-500k for single family home, I think you've lost. The ranch house in Kent awaits.

And this talk of "high quality people" is just dumb. I mean, do people still talk like that in 2008?

Dave, this 'Suthii' character is a total mid-1990s throwback: right-wing Libertarian, internet misanthrope, probably a nebbish in real life. Has little grasp of nuance and life's complexities. Better just to ignore him.

Man, a little hot weather and Ballard gets a little frisky!

Dave,

You must be new here. Welcome.

Suthii is a troll. Please do not feed the troll.

Now that Ron Paul is officially out of the running for President, many trolls are now homeless. It's sad, but these bile-spewing internet nomads need someplace to live. I'm as self-conscious as the next Ballardite about coming off all NIMBY, but like I said if we ignore it, it might go back to it's old troll stomping ground.

Unfortunately, the PI doesn't un-ban IP addresses. So either the Geeky Swedes drop the hammer and our resident bottom-feeder is forced to move on, or we start some kind of letter writing campaign and get the PI to reinstate it's privileges. In the mean-time, we should really just not respond. Like a plant needs sunshine, trolls thrive on attention...

Let's all do our part. I'll start by making this my last comment on the subject.

Good night all!

" I just happen to prefer the trashy, “low quality” old Ballard"

Hey, there's always Georgetown....oh wait, that's being gentrified too. I guess you can try Renton?

"I’m happy I don’t live in Ballard "

The feeling's mutual.

" suburban wannabe hipsters who flock there in pursuit of trendiness."

Ahem, only a suburbanite would actually think Ballard was a city and not the suburb it's always been. Nice try Sherlock, but some of us grew up in real cities. I've lived in 4 cities with populations higher than 8 milllion, so Seattle is little more than Mayberry with sky scrapers in my book. Ballard is, and always has been, a suburb to a little town.

"ridiculed the concept of “diversity”"

Well maybe because Ballard has always been whiter than white, so old timers talking about diversity here do look a tad stupid. Mind you my wife's not white, but she is a yuppie (because she loves Whole Foods), so I guess she wouldn't count towards diversity?

Mary, so angry at the yuppies, how come no comments on the thread about the gun fire last week on 15th? Or is this the old Ballard community you're so fond of?

http://www.myballard.com/2008/05/14/shoots-fire...

"no roots here, contribute nothing, and could not care less about the neighborhood"

Really? Is this peer-reviewed research or the sputterings of a drunken malcontent?

Seriously, if folks like Mary are this bitter, I'd almost be happy to see Mike's Chili get turned into an Italian shoe shop, it might be the only way to scare 'em off.

"Think about moving to greenwood. And the yuppies haven’t managed to ruin it yet. "

Yes, and you can see meth addicts all day long from Greenwood Ave at 85 going Northbound, and you're right, the yuppies haven't spoiled that splendid sight yet. Hell, you can even park your wrecked car on the lawn up there, it’s redneck paradise.

"All follow the rule of law, pay their taxes, and are dedicated to their profession."

They sound terrible! Next thing you'll tell me they enjoy $4 coffee and buy organic.

"wealthy transients are ok, poor ones are not?"

Wow Mary, you are class envious, the true soul of Bitter Ballard no doubt. Now let me explain something, the wealthy transients are at least paying taxes that help run the schools, police, fire station and all those other things I thought the hardened left loved. What do bums pay for exactly?

"The people who love and care for our community are being pushed out."

Really, who's forcing them to sell? I haven't seen one old Swede dragged from his home by a Windermere agent and beaten to sell by a dot.comer, so I'm not sure who's forcing them to sell. Unless it’s free will and free choice you hate.

"We are losing the intangibles and values that have made our fair city and its communities worth living in."

If you're that bitter, leave.

San Fran Transplant: Welcome to Ballard! Please understand not all of us hate town homes/condos and their owners, some of us welcome you. I have several friends in some, they're not yuppies, not flippers, they simply could not afford to buy a nice old home on a good sized lot. Apparently these are people Mary hates, people who can't afford $500k for a decent sized home in Ballard.

I disagree Mary. I really enjoy my townhome. I purchase it brand new a year ago. Quality built through and through as near as I can tell. Never had any issue. Still is brand new. My power bill during the winter is only $40 every two month. Home owner insurance only $35 per month. I am friends with all my neighbor. I couldn't get anything remotely similar in quality or comfort this close to downtown SFO. I work at Amgen as PhD scientist. How perfect!

The condo/townhouse infestation isn't bringing anything to the community--they're here for the investment potential--flippers. Period. They'll live here for a year or three, then flip it for the quick buck. They have no roots here, contribute nothing, and could not care less about the neighborhood, beyond the "hot-spot" status that they've been sold by developers (while the developers laugh all the way to the bank.) The townhouses lining my street--less than four years old--have already sold and resold at least once, some twice and three times. They're already looking shabby. It's a constant stream of trendy (yawn), arrogant, affluent, mindless transients. (Let me get this straight--wealthy transients are ok, poor ones are not?) Contractors laugh at the quality that goes into these half-million dollar tenement condos--think motel six-quality fixtures and materials--and the people who are gullible enough to buy them. The "well kept properties" that sell so well in the article are being sold to developers,--often without telling the long-time resident sellers that they will be razed for yet more condo-canyons. The people who love and care for our community are being pushed out. We are losing the intangibles and values that have made our fair city and its communities worth living in.

Biff - I get most of my information from http://www.seattlecondoreview.com/. As of May 7th Hjarta had closed on 39 out of 79 available units, which is close enough to 50% for me.

Facts aside, I think that the circumstantial evidence for low occupancy is pretty obvious. NoMa has been around for a while and they're trying that Norway trip gimmick to sell off the last 9 units. Wait until the glut of Canal Station units comes on-board. $100 bucks says CS is going the same way as Carbon 56 in Belltown did. Screw the early adopters by turning into a rental apartment building when the bottom falls out.

I'm sorry that you feel that way Dave. Not sure about your story or basis to arrive at that conclusion?

When I mentioned "top quality" I was referring to the numerous folks I have been lucky enough to befriend and/or meet. Whether at the artwalk or at one of the many venues, the folks that I have met in Ballard are generally educated and well informed, kind at heart, intelligent and hardworking folks. All follow the rule of law, pay their taxes, and are dedicated to their profession. Some have families or are in pursuit of that aspiration/many others are single 20-30 somethings trying out Ballard-Seattle for size. All seem to be looking for a dynamic neighborhood with interesting character. Most I talk with enjoy the neighborhood.

If you feel those traits represent arrogance and selfishness then I guess that is your choice. Seems like a fairly negative viewpoint to me. Personally, I do not feel the need to apologize or be made to feel guilty for a life's worth of dedication and hard work to my trade. I personally invested in my college education, spend numerous weekends studying away at the library, and am not afraid to put in the extra effort that is sometimes required. This has led to a solid career which affords me the ability to buy a house/townhome/condo (whatever) and live a generally comfortable exitence.

You can do this if you want? Nobody is stopping you except you. Not sure why you feel that people who do experience success are greedy, arrogant, selfish...whatever. It's your choice how you view the world though Dave...nobody has forced you into your personal viewpoints or feelings.

"that means I’ll soon have to decide whether to move to another neighborhood or to remain in Ballard and live in a camper."

Kent and Renton await.

"where I’m going to live when Ballard isn’t Ballard anymore."

They're changing the name?

"The list goes on and on…."

ONce they knock down Denny's will the list be done at last?

"top quality people and businesses want to locate."

Yes, but remember the myballard posting about gun fire on 15th ave got zero postings the first day , yuppies in Ballard gets 12. Maybe we should be happy the old timers are leaving if their priorities are this screwed up?

We may not live in the "old Ballard" that my grandparents still talks about, but we do live in a wonderfully unique community. Yes, our neighborhood is changing but that's not a bad thing. Thanks to the geographic make up of Ballard we will always have a small-town feel.

i love ballard. i love seattle. living here has changed my life all for the better. i am not a fan of the townhomes... but they arent ruining my neighborhood.. doesnt complaining just make you feel worse?

everyone that lived in nc complained about how bad they had to get out. i did as well. so i got out. (unlike most others) why doesnt everyone here who doesnt like ballard find somewhere else?! you may find yourself somewhere that you love.

ballard was never going to stay "old ballard" are you still the same as you were when you were 17? is anything the same as it was? everything changes, grows and faulters.. give me a break.

ballard is fantastic and i hope to never find myself bitter and unable to accept change.

LOL what about if you voted for the tax referendum that created the fund that initiated the changes to Ballard? Remember voting on that? It started it all. If you want to live in a diverse area, hit up the central district. Plenty diversity awaits you there.

While we laugh about where I'm going to go when Ballard isn't Ballard anymore, my kids know I'm not leaving the village. I've been here for 20 years, moving all the way from Wallingford.

Yes, condo and townhouse density and traffic are all growing pains, but the best part of my village are the neighbors. I know my baristas, my checkers at Ballard Market, my librarians and my bank tellers. I know my waitstaff at Vera's and Thaiku and bartenders at several places. I know shopkeepers on Ballard Ave. And I know all my neighbors in my 5-plex.

I ask all my new condo & townhouse neighbors to park your car, walk around your neighborhood and have conversations. This builds community, my sense of "village".

Peter-
Mid -90's?? You've earned your stripes -IMO, anyway. Do you remember Ernst (which I still miss everytime I drive to Home Depot)? When Edith Macefield had a neighbor (across the street and on the other side of 15th)? She fed pigeons and looked to be about as fiesty as Edith. Or for that matter, do you remember that Edith's house used to be surrounded by smelly garbage trucks?

It's positive progress people, get over it and quit your incessant whining. We're extremely lucky to be in a neighborhood where top quality people and businesses want to locate.

If you are so desperate for "diversity" head back to Cleveland, Detroit, or any other depressed metropolis where partially built and unoccupied houses are being bulldozed.

I think you're a "long time Ballard resident" if you moved to Ballard when people used to poke fun at it's quirks. (Now they're all wishing they moved here when you did.) Or, maybe you're a LTBR if you remember when parking was free and you could actually find a space near Bartell's or WaMu. Or if you remember "The Backstage" music venue. The list goes on and on....

Did the magazine mention this blog? I think it's one of best unsung treats of living in Ballard. :-)

Name a condo that is 50% unoccupied? I'm most intrigued by your knowledge.

Are there any "Old Ballard" people who read Seattle Metropolitan Magazine?

My guess is that the folks who buy this crap while waiting in line at Whole Foods are the same people who paid too much to live in their now 50% unoccupied condo building and desperately need their decisions validated. Obviously the people who publish SMM know what sells magazines and covering "Hot Neighborhoods" (either blatantly, like this example or disguised as "Top Restaurants!" or "Best Schools!") is it. Can we just submit Seattle Metropolitan Magazine to StuffWhitePeopleLike and just get on with our lives?

On an unrelated note - what is the official designation for Old Ballard? I'm one of the more crotchety posters here in the comments, but I've only lived in Ballard since the mid-90s, so I don't know if I've really earned my stripes. I'm not even Norwegian. But then when I realize that most new people I meet in town don't even remember the Firehouse, I feel justified again.

So what's "a long-time Ballard resident" defined as? 6 months? 5 years?

My kids are already worried about me and where I'm going to live when Ballard isn't Ballard anymore.

Great - that means I'll soon have to decide whether to move to another neighborhood or to remain in Ballard and live in a camper.