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‘Rover 1′ close to finding first home

Posted by Geeky Swedes on November 12th, 2008

Back in September, the Ballard Homes for All Coalition unveiled Rover 1 at the Sustainable Ballard Festival — a hygiene station designed for homeless car camps. And tonight at the Ballard District Council meeting, organizers say they’re “very close” to identifying the Rover 1’s pilot location. “We are starting with a single site at a church,” said Jean Darsie. “We don’t have one designated, but we think we’re close.” Darsie said that it would consist of three to four cars “and at most six people.” The homeless who use the Rover 1 would be pre-screened, just like the tent cities, and a “part time organizer will manage the site in cooperation with residents” in the surrounding area.

A member of the audience raised the concern that not everyone is in favor of the idea. “What you have here, for the most part, is the choir,” she said to the council, and she asked what was being done to let the community know about the initiative. Ballard District Coordinator Rob Mattson urged those in attendance to talk to their neighbors and nearby businesses about the idea, and he underlined the point that although the city was “willing to give this a shot as a demonstration project,” it was not going to monitor or be responsible for it. Representative Mary Lou Dickerson, who supports the idea, emphasized that it was just one pilot site. “We’re talking about three to four cars,” she said.

We’ll let you know the pilot location as soon as it’s announced.

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  • Looney
    jm, it sounds like they ESCAPED from the zoo.
  • jm
    I don't think society should be encouraging people to live in their cars. There are people camping on Phinney Avenue next to the zoo and they are always tossing their trash out onto the sidewalk and into the zoo shrubbery.
  • Swishy Ballard Boy
    I thought Sustainable Ballard's big bugaboo was global warming? Shouldn't they be encouraging people to get out of their cars? Sheeez!
  • Susan
  • Susan
    Neighbors, please speak up, not just on this blog, but in the newspapers, the Ballard Tribune and the Seattle PI and Times. Email Mayor Nickels who is approving the project, and Mary Lou Dickerson who is championing it. Write to the Ballard District Council and show up at a meeting and make sure you are heard. These people are supposed to be representing us – make sure they know your views. Show up as a group. I went the other night and there were at least 20 people representing the homeless coalition in favor of the car camps. One of your posts asked, “Can they do this?” It’s not a question of whether they’re allowed to push something like this through without holding public meetings about it, they’re doing it anyway!! Demand something different! If each of you wrote one just one letter and sent a copy to all of the above they might be forced to publicly acknowledge what they already know, the bulk of Ballard, their constituency, does not support this project. Here are some questions and comments I’m left with:

    If we need hygiene stations, why can’t the city open the Ballard pool showers and bathrooms to the homeless at a designated time? If a local homeless person can’t manage getting to the Ballard pool for hygiene, how can they handle responsible living in a parking lot? If there are health concerns about opening the Ballard pool showers to the homeless why aren’t the same health concerns applied to our corner parking lots? If the church groups are concerned about the homeless and trust the homeless to monitor themselves on church property, why don’t they let the homeless use their bathrooms? Why require them to put fragrant porta-potties throughout our neighborhood? If there are not issues with the hygiene, behaviors, and trustworthiness of the homeless why don’t the churches let them use the churches to keep clean?

    The hi-tech hygiene stations installed in Pioneer Square to help the homeless were very expensive and were removed because the privacy they provided was used for drug activity and prostitution. The money the city spent on them was wasted and they could not unload them on the resale market. The “privacy screen” will unfortunately serve the same purpose. Why would Mayor Nickles allow a similar investment? Why would any responsible elected official suggest it?

    The homeless coalition says this effort was sparked by a homeless woman freezing to death, outside, in the winter. Living in a car in a parking lot will not change that. Will neighbors beside the parking lot then have to listen to the camps’ car engines running all night to keep the homeless from freezing to death and inhale carbon monoxide fumes? Why don’t the organizations willing to host the homeless bring them inside? Do they lack compassion? Will their parishioners not allow it? Their governing organizations? Their insurance agencies? Why then is it okay to shift the problem onto residents?

    What about zoning rules? Are permanent car camps with hygiene stations a violation of zoning laws? Can we host multiple cars and people outside, indefinitely, on our property legally? What other kinds of rules, regulations, and RCWs does it violate? If rules, regulations and zoning laws are being waived, shouldn’t there be a public comment period as part of the process?

    Many homeless choose not to stay in shelters because they do not feel safe among the other homeless people staying there. Representative Dickerson and Sustainable Ballard propose that these groups of homeless people be self-governed and police each other. Who will provide security for Ballard homeowners and renters? What percentage of Ballard residents would support such a significant change to Ballard that would require increased security? If there is a problem on church (which is considered private) property, will the police respond to complaints? My understanding is that they will not. Thus we have greater security risk and less security.

    What is the screening process? What are the homeless being screened for? How are these items being verified? What are the skill level and credentials of the screener? Who is responsible for supervising and evaluating the screener’s performance? How can a screener possibly accomplish all that needs to be done for a project of this magnitude and population with such intense service needs in the scant five hours per proposed? How will the program be evaluated? How will Ballard residents living in homes near proposed sites be included in the planning, conflict resolution, and evaluation process? So far they have not been, which is not a good indicator for the future.

    This proposal shifts the onus for supervising and responding to the needs of the homeless from social service organizations presumably with expertise and resources, onto Ballard residents without them. Many homeless suffer from mental illness and addictions that prevent them from functioning well in society and some no longer conform to the norms of society. I have been pan handled, heckled, and aggressively approached as I passed homeless individuals living in and outside of their cars in Ballard. I do not relish encountering groups of individuals, at night, camped in parking lots in my neighborhood; and I do not want to be put in the position of having to avoid areas of my neighborhood or cease from using my neighborhood at night.

    Mary Lou Dickerson said, “it’s only one pilot site, we don’t expect it to blossom.” This is contrary to all the literature on this project and to the very concept of a pilot project. Either Mary Lou is misleading us or she has not done her homework on this project and is being mislead. Either way, her statement reflects poorly on her. The idea is to have car encampments for the homeless blossom throughout Ballard, and Sustainable Ballard’s homeless coalition literature on the web reflects this. It shows a map of Ballard with proposed car encampment parking lot sites all over Ballard. This will also mean that in addition to the homeless living in and out of their cars on the streets, they will be occupying parking lots.

    The proposal suggests that grouping the homeless in our parking lots will make it easier to provide outreach to the homeless and solve the problem of homelessness in Ballard by matching the homeless with existing supports. Not all homeless are responsive to outreach, but for those that are, increased outreach is a wonderful idea. However homeless advocates and organizations can expand their outreach services at existing resources for the homeless, such as food banks, soup kitchens, and shelters. The root of the problem is that existing supports are inadequate. While the intent of the proposal to help homeless people living out of their cars in Ballard is well meaning, it, does little to help the homeless, and much to harm Ballard.

    There is a plan to convert old army housing in Fort Lawton into a housing development with 85 unites to house the homeless. These kinds of projects, projects that don’t degrade our neighborhoods and society in general, are more likely to garner support.
  • kim
    i emailed Mary Lou w/this link. let's see how much she listens to her constituents now!
  • Orslax
    How much does it cost to stay in these? If this is a free ride for homeless people than i say hell no, NIMBY
  • jim
    I just returned from Market street.(friday 14th) you cannot go anywhere without running the "homeless" jiving and smoking in front of the library, great harvest, tully,s and on.
    My wife and I have made a point of shopping ballard as much as possible. with one trip a month to PCC. we have just about had it with these groups that are pouring in here to take advantage of the handout mentality thats seems to be taking hold in ballard.
    they are hardly looking for work. I fear that if this keeps up local business,s will soon be feeling the effect of people like us who will be heading elsewhere for christmas and other shoping.
    wake up Ballard!
  • Ballard Girl
    What is the goal or bonus about living in your car??? I would be more supportive of a secure lot or garage where they could keep their car.

    This is ridiculous, all the leaking oil, radiators and increased use of drug and alcohol abuse in a car living situation only puts our neighborhoods at risk. It enables/encourages people to live under stressful conditions. I am not sure what Mary Lou is thinking, or any of them, but this is not the solution and ballard is not the place to be known as a safe haven for homeless. I agree with Lori

    Should we start making the bumper stickers, now?
    “Ballard - Home of the homeless”.
    “Ballard- Enabling the homeless, one drunk at a time”
    “Ballard- Your place to go for a bottle (or ten) of malt liquor AND a clean place to pass out”
  • E/C
    out of control! I hope it is next to Mary Lou's house.

    Representative Mary Lou Dickerson, who supports the idea, emphasized that it was just one pilot site. “We’re talking about three to four cars,” she said

    Do we as a commuity have any say in this? This will not work, and it cannot be shoved down our throats...is it going next to the building they are re-habbing to home the chronically homeless with the Compass Center...why is Ballard the target place to home/help/enable the homeless?????
  • 50intheclip
    DO THIS THE RIGHT WAY! GO LIVE IN YOUR VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER (or the locks)
  • BPNWJFSHAFSJ
    Patyh: If the city provides too many provisions other than food and help finding work, the homeless population will surely multiply quickly as many will gravitate here seeking these options.


    BPNWJFSHAFSJ believes that the best way to attract attention to the differently-housed is to use the 'pigeon theory' of social justice. When you don't have enough homeless to make a political point, throw out some seed everyday, and pretty soon you'll have enough flapping around that you can then cart around town in fun colored tents, port-a-potties and other apparatus of social justice. Think of it as a circus of the politically oppressed that leaves droppings (or political statements) on your home and car.
  • patyh
    I've had three cars towed from in front of my house. Don't know if someone was living in them or not but for some reason, they like to park there for waaaay longer than they should.
    From the looks of it, they are most likely vehicles that are being lived in - at least part time.
    It's driving me crazy and I am tired of opening my front door never knowing what (or who) I might find.
    I live nowhere near 15th - quite the contrary.
    It really bums me out because we moved up here hoping I could escape the rampant homeless issues we had in CA .
    If the city provides too many provisions other than food and help finding work, the homeless population will surely multiply quickly as many will gravitate here seeking these options.

    Been there and seen it happen.
  • BPNWJFSHAFSJ
    Ballard’s Pacific Northwest Peace, Justice, Freedom, Solidarity and Happiness Alliance for Social Justice (BPNWJFSHAFSJ ) believes that the concept of private property was created to lower the self esteem of the differently-housed. Claims that the differently-housed lower home values by urinating on them are simply false and reflect the anti-free pooping attitudes of the land owning class.

    However, as noted before, BPNWJFSHAFSJ rejects Sustainable Ballard and BHAC’s specist policies that deny the homeless nature of many of our non-human neighbors (badgers, squirrels, ferrets etc. etc.). As such, BPNWJFSHAFSJ, along with our friends from Rich “Jim Jones” Lang’s house of prayer, are building our own roving pee-pod tentatively called the ‘Dumpster 1’. Modeled after a bucket, the “Dumpster 1” has added cat flap access for our 4 legged homeless neighbors and can be easily assembled in anyone’s driveway or garden. We are also developing the ‘Dumpster 2’, which along with the bucket with have a handle.

    BPNWJFSHAFSJ hopes Ballard’s compassion class will start opening their homes and gardens to the Dumpster* now! Please call us soon at 1-800-dumpster and let us know where you live so we can drop one off at your home soon!


    *Toilet paper not included.
  • Dazed and confused in Ballard
    I agree with everyone, this is a horrible idea. I moved to people because I have two young kids, i've seen more drug deals with homeless than on the Hill. Christ sake. We need to get together and do something about this problem not just bitch and moan on a blog. Show you face. It is not wrong to protect what you work hard for and part of that is the great neighborhood of Ballard. This HAS to stop before it is to late.

    Thoughts from someone who works 65 hours a week to pay for his rental house and food.
  • Balltard
    Hey Lori -

    We need one that says "15th and NW market drunks" you know the ones...at the bus stop. LOL
  • swassociates
    It's amazing how charitable people are with other people's money (or in this case, property values).

    Newsflash:

    If you want to be charitable do it with your own money and property values.
  • Lori "I-work-for-my-shelter"
    Should we start making the bumper stickers, now?
    "Ballard - Home of the homeless".
    "Ballard- Enabling the homeless, one drunk at a time"
    "Ballard- Your place to go for a bottle (or ten) of malt liquor AND a clean place to pass out"
  • GIB
    I loathe this idea on so many levels and in so many different ways. I hate to sound insensitive, but I don't want homeless people near my house or my kids. I'm sure they all have unique stories and difficulties that prevent them from living a "normal" life, but this will only enable them and give them an excuse to not try to fit in.

    I don't care what anyone says, they bring crime and drugs into the area. You combine and cluster them together and the problems will only grow exponentially.

    Here's a list of people you can email and let them know how you feel about the project:
    http://sustainableballard.org/wiki/index.php?ti...
  • jm
    So, why do we have 10 million people from Central America working and groups of street people not working?
  • tony
    Excellent point Chris!
  • Joey
    Hooray for enabling the bums!

    Lets do everything we can to encourage more homeless people to come to Ballard, thats a great idea!
  • ChrisH
    What is the goal of helping homeless people?

    Compassion?-then we should not prescreen them for anything-they are the victims of circumstance and should not be punished because they have warrants and anti-social tendancies. We should open our arms to everyone and help them all equally.

    Is the goal to make our streets and neighborhoods "nicer" by removing all of the broken down cars, trucks and RV's currently parked there and containing homeless people?

    If so, are we assuming that there are a finite number of homeless people that, if we build enough housing and buy enough Rovers, that the problem will disappear?

    I would argue that the state that has the best "deal" for the homeless, will magnetically attract homeless people from neighboring states, and the problem for Washington then becomes infinite.



    Is there some finite number of homeless people that we should find housing for?
  • 50intheclip
    homeless people have no home. no home, no walls, no shower no bathroom. Isnt that why we are motivated to go to our jobs everyday to be able to pay for our rent so we can have these things. This is just making it way to easy for them. If you are homeless go to a shelter. If you have a car sell your car. get the cash. By the way who has seen a bum camp this clean. BULLSHIT
  • tony
    Rover 1, what a cute name for a floating crack house!
    rover 1,rover 1, this is rover 2, the coast is clear.
    so we have two people who have been fired with the light, perhaps having read Steinbeck or Cervantes and now are going to save the world.
    their going to put mini tent cities next to YOUR houses and call YOU cruel and uncaring if YOU complain. I doubt these people even live in Ballard.
    Yes" but these people are screened", by whom I ask? unless they are checked by the police dept.
    for outstanding warrants,etc. they haven,t been screened.
    How many of the homeless are they helping in Their yards or spare bedrooms or basements?
  • boardbrown
    If the screening and "management" are done effectively, then I've got no problems w/ it. But nothing turns out in reality like it's promised on paper.

    Ten bucks says it'll be the church near my place (our redeemer lutheran).
  • Looney
    The tent city bums were prescreened? Well that explains why I saw bums drinking in the alleys on the way over to their tents, throwing their bottles away and then staggering in.
  • Looney
    So what does the screening involve? Without details, it's meaningless.

    Are we talking full criminal back ground checks and drug testing? Because if they don't, and we get another car camper murder like we had on Leary, we'll sure know who to blame won't we.
  • tony
    well homeless dude you cant find a job by hanging out in front of the library, smoking and jawing with your mates all day,
    I cant afford to smoke; how do they do it?
  • homeless dude
    Want a better solution? How about a job?
  • tony
    Ok Daniel... h ave all persons getting handouts from church groups ie. soup kitchens,tent cities etc. put in an hour or two or work in exchange. clean up the area, paint, help the elderly with chores etc.
    keep to that rule hard and fast and watch the "homeless" vanish from ballard.
    tent cities make the claim they do this....THEY DONT!
  • swassociates
    A better solution? How about next to your house then?
  • jm
    I don't think we should encourage people to live in their vehicles.
  • How about those that are so against the idea come up with a better solution?
  • swassociates
    How about making the location next to Representative Mary Lou Dickerson's house
  • I want to be the first to dribble on the floor!
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