Lots to say about this. Thanks for posting the info, so your astute readers can weigh in.....

This compromise "solution" promoted by the mayor clearly does not help bicyclists of any type, even beginners.

I feel exhausted by Aakervik and Nerdrum's intransigence.

Their ploys are so transparent... In skirmish after skirmish volunteers and bicycle advocates have pointed out that in many other similar situations bicycles and industry have coexisted peacefully and safely.

Somehow, though, city government ends up bowing to their wishes... We can only imagine why.

But it is obvious to any unbiased observer that, while they benefit, the rest of Ballard suffers.

And, btw, I would love, love for an enterprising journalist to chronicle the rise of the Ballard Shortline Railroad...

Where are the "hop-a-thons" or "cake-walks" for the money for the bicyclists? Seems they're such a good idea for our little kiddies. Who elected the Cascade club? Why isn't that organization compared to Tim Eyeman then? Imagine the $$ that could be raised with a simple license plate system for said riders? And why not? How else to ID them if they're serious?

Yes, I've heard Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel's complaints before -- that bicyclists will be hurt. Because apparently cement truck drivers are incapable of obeying traffic laws, like stopping, looking, and then proceeding once the path is clear.

Trying to play the "We're thinking of *you*" card is disingenuous at best, false and deceptive at worst.

Bicyclists are the ones who do not follow the rules of the road, riding up between the curb and the cars, there to follow the same laws as the cars do, as long as there on the street.

Can we at least call the stubborn folks at Ballard Oil etc. 'old ballard'?

Cyclists want to coexist with business and industry, and frankly, that's a very fair position to take. If that's too hard for you handle, and you want to exclude bicycles and cylists from Ballard, too bad because that's not in the cards. More and more people are cycling and for good reasons -- it's healthy, non-polluting, saves gas, decreases car traffic on streets, and it's really fun. Don't think so? Well give it a try -- you just might like it. Did I mention cycling puts you in a better mood?

After reading the letter by the group of businesses including Ballard Oil, Salmon Bay Sand & Gravel as well as the Ballard Chamber of Commerce, my reading is that their demands are grossly overreaching and unreasonably over-sensitive to the impact that the trail would have. If their view held any merit whatsoever, we would not have an existing bike trail that goes alongside the railyard in Magnolia and all the roads and railgrade would be privately owned by the businesses. Completely ridiculous. There's room for a bike trail, it's not going to infringe on industry and may actually improve it by decreasing auto traffic on the roads that trucks need to use.

I wonder what all the retail businesses along Market St and Ballard Ave think of The Ballard Chamber of Commerce being one the named parties on this appeal. I guess the Chamber must not represent them. On a summer night there are so many bicycles on Market that they are chained to every tree you can see. Bike riders are their clientele.
I took a look at the Ballard Chamber website to see who their members were but that portion of the website is unavailable. I'd be hiding if I belonged to this organization too. Romanza is listed under 'patrons'. I think it's time for bicycle riders to let the retail organizations involved in the Chamber know that their support of this appeal is not appreciated and I for one will make my voice heard by where I spend my money.

I'm with Long Timer. My jaw dropped when I saw the Ballard Chamber of Commerce named on the appeal. Are they kidding? I expect as much from Salmon Bay and Ballard Oil, but the Chamber?

Someone publish the list please. I won't be spending my money at their establishments, even when I drive my car to Ballard.

Email the Ballard Chamber to voice your opinion on this topic, whatever that may be:

info@ballardchamber.com

Here's the Chamber's BOD -
I ride my bike to Snooze Junction and I bank at Peoples so I'm contacting them personally.

Brent Siewert (Majestic Bay Theater)

Vice President, Business Development Chair
John Backes (Shoreline Community College)

Vice President, Programs & Special Events
Michelle Rosenthal (Garvey Schubert Barer)

Treasurer
Michelle Hollingsworth (Sterling Saving Bank)

Past President
Elizabeth Howard (Viking Bank)

Board of Directors
Mark Ball (Snoose Junction Pizza)
Michael Fancher (Seattle Divorce Services)
Barry Hawley (Hawley Realty)
Kristen Juan-Snyder (Peoples Bank)
Kerri Lonergran (Lombardi's Neighborhood Italian)
Timo Nørring (Sterling Savings Bank)
Vic Opperman (Opperman Design)
Greg Swanson (Viking Bank)

I'm a huge fan of Salmon Bay Sand & Gravel. I've been a happy customer for years. But the layout of their real estate creates a big problem for traffic and cyclists alike. Their offices & warehouses are on one side of the road and their bulk dispatch on the other. Vehicles and workers are constantly crossing the street, and it's only a matter of time before something bad happens. I'm sure it wasn't such a big deal back when Ballard was a sleepy town, but let's face it...those days are long gone. Shilshole is a freakin' highway these days.

In the end this is a life safety issue. Cyclists, drivers, and workers need some sort of protection along that stretch of road.

I guess I'm to understand that this won't be dangerous as long as all the drivers along the route obey the law. And never make any errors. That should be easy, right? What could go wrong?

Oh for heaven's sake! One of the reasons we moved here was the BGT - it makes getting around from neighborhood to neighborhood a breeze - and once I'm there, I SHOP and I spend money at restaurants! (I even installed larger paniers, so I can fit more STUFF!) You can't tell me that the majority of Chamber members can't see that!? :-P

I just got an email from the owner of Romanza, they quit the Chamber years ago but their name hasn't been taken off the 'patron list'. The Romanza owners are huge supporters of the BGT and are dismayed their name is still tied to the Chamber. One of the reasons they left the Chamber was their feeling the Chamber was so backwards thinking on transportation issues.

Romanza has not been a Chamber member for many years. The fact that we are still listed as a "Patron" speaks volumes about this organization (or at the very least, it shows that the website is badly out of date). I was surprised to see that they took a stand about anything given the fact that they outwardly appear to only exist for Seafood Fest.

We would love to support the Chamber but they need to support all the people who live and work in Ballard. Not just the interests of one or two member companies. They need to support the trail and find a solution and not be part of the problem.

Romanza supports the trail. We support the extension and improvements to it. We support any and all green forms of transportation. The trail provides access to Ballard... Access = commerce. There is a bike rack in front of my shop. If they ever try to remove it, I'll be the first one to hand-cuff myself to it!

They argue that with the proposed changes it's "very likely a trail user will get hurt or killed"? Anybody who bikes or drives in that area knows that it's virtually *certain* a trail user will get hurt or killed in the current design. It's only a matter of time.

I support the "Buy in Ballard" campaign and don't mind spending a little extra at a local business--partly because I can ride my bike there, instead of wasting time and gas driving out to some big-box store. But I'm not going to be supporting local businesses if our Chamber of Commerce favors business owners' interests over their own customers' safety.

Long Timer, thanks for listing the members of the Chamber of Commerce. Do you have any e-mail addresses?

So let's get this straight, Mark Ball of Snoose Junctoon Pizza, sends his delivery guys/gals out on bikes, and is opposed to completing the BGT?

What a horse's patoot. Buy in Ballard my Aunt Fanny, I say boycott every last business listed on the Board of Directors.

Horrible, horrible, horrible.

Before anyone jumps to any conclusions it only seems fair to allow the Chamber to explain their position on this issue. It could be that the Board and other member businesses were not consulted before the Chamber came to this decision.

The industrial business on Shilshole have a right to operate but they don't have the right to obstruct bicycle traffic (yup, another tax payer on their way to work via bike) or endanger lives. They are simply being obstructionist and dishonest. The chamber of commerce should know better but apparently has more than a few narrow-minded old timers without a clue. Let's keep harassing them till they get a clue.

Can the City of Ballard, Salmon Bay, and the rest please explain this section of the appeal in more detail: section 4.1 - "The DNS and Checklist do not adequately disclose or discuss the impacts of the Project on air quality in this area caused by traffic-induced traffic changes." What?!?!?

I kind of doubt that the board of directors was not made aware of a legal action with the name of the Ballard Chamber of Commerce on it. I'm willing to hear their side of it and I've contacted them via email to ask for it (as well as notify them that I sent out emails to all of the local news), but that is as far as I'm willing to go.

Hi Craig -

The Chamber Board did vote on this. I talked to Kristen from Peoples Bank, she's on the Board. According to her the Board is trying to 'Help the bicyclists and the business community' get the best solution for the BGT.

mike--

your spot on. SB drivers need to tow in the cement drivers. those guys are maniacs.

thanks for posting the chamber members and thanks to romanza for stepping up and speaking. i'm sure the chamber has seen this blog. now they're trying to find a political strategist to write their rebuttal.

ballard chamber-

you may have just dug your own grave.

Let's be clear, what the Mayor and City have proposed and are now funding is an INTERIM plan for connecting the two parts of the Burke-Gilman Trail in Ballard. It makes the "missing link" smaller.
You can tell it's a decent compromise because none of the entrenched interests is happy with the result.

There is a virtual certainty that a bicycle rider will be killed in the current configuration of Shilshole.

Shilshole has a deceptive 18" wide "shoulder" of pavement that is horribly bumpy, gravel covered, and motor traffic insists on speeding through the area so much that most cyclists allow themselves to be intimidated onto that paved shoulder.

The acute railroad track crossing angle under 15th is so bad that the Dutch Bike Company of Seattle which is 1/2 block away buys bandages at Costco and is constantly running out. I've seen several people go down right in front of me and I've nearly flipped myself when a car driver decided to come up behind me and honk just as I was trying to cross at an angle that wouldn't get me killed.

By their protests, Ballard Oil and Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel are going to get someone killed. They have already been indirectly responsible (through keeping the short line and creating the missing link) for numerous crashes and at least one concussion.

I hate to say it, but perhaps Ballard Oil and Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel would be better off moving out of Ballard. Personally as a cyclist I'd much rather bicycle around cement and delivery trucks, those drivers are *MUCH* safer than most car drivers, yet if they are so paralyzed be the idea of a bicycle near them. Ballard has one of the highest concentrations of cyclists, if they can't deal with the risk maybe they should move.

I'm just a guy from a family on 36th NW with two kids and four bikes. Somehow I don't feel like an “entrenched interest.”

I am willing to with hold any "boycott" action on my part until the Chamber speaks up and explains themselves.

Kudos to Romanza. I'll be in this weekend to shop!

It would be great if people who do business with Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel could voice their concerns. As a cyclist I don't want "new Ballard" to force out all the remaining industry, I would like to find a way to coexist. But the owners have to be willing to work to find a solution that's safe for Ballard residents.

you will probably find the clientele at bad alberts after 4:30 on most days.

Michael,

Your idea that they should leave Ballard is exactly what they fear.

The bike lobby is very powerful...once there is a path there they will work to shut them down. Why can't we carve space out of market for a bike lane. That would be a better solution IMHO.

BTW, I bike and longboard a lot around ballard. I avoid shilshole like a plague.

HH, read my earlier comment. I'm a repeating customer of SBS&G, and an avid cyclist. They're a great company full of great people, and it would be tragic for the Seattle construction industry to loose their last remaining concrete dispatch plant to the suburbs. But I certainly differ w/ them about the trail. We need to build this thing to protect everybody, and they need to adapt just like everyone else.

I don't appreciate people who refuse to follow the process for any changes to publicly owned property or streets. The business community is only asking what they should be asking: that the process be followed so that the best, safest and most economically viable solution can be found. Business people have nothing against bicyclists. In fact many of them are bicyclists and encourage their employees to ride. Bullying and yelling and portraying businesses who employ local families at living wages really is neither civil or thoughtful.

Old Ballard vs. New Ballard.

Old industrial,working class left vs. New green, yuppie left.

Let the cannibalism begin!

Bark more, Wag less

I know you are typical a pot stirrer but i never did understand why some segments of the "green" community want to force industry out of the city, they want to make it into a high density suburbia. where you are forced to commute an hour out of the city to produce something besides web pages and coffee.

the trail should be finished but I'm not sure if shilshole is the best route for it.

"ullying and yelling and portraying businesses who employ local families at living wages really is neither civil or thoughtful."

But B, these folks say they want industrial Ballard around but there gonna vote to regulate it away. Oh, the irony!

Iloveseatown, the hard core greenies think you can run a modern economy on windmills and waves and everyone riding bicycles.

I say build a fly-over and charge tolls for bicyclers to use it. It's about dang time that they start paying for the roads too.

bmvaughn,

I pay for the roads via my car, just like you. Your argument is invalid.

if this were chicago, assuming the mayor was not in the pocket of salmon bay sand, the cascade bike club could just pay hizzoner a decent sum of money today and we'd be using our new bike trail next month.

Some are trying to blow this issue into a false conflict; there's no such conflict --- stalwart old ballard businesses will persist, old Ballard cyclists will continue to ride, and so will new Ballard businesses and cyclists.

Someone has persuaded a few of our otherwise excellent and longtime successful industry businesses to be hypersensitively fearful of a bicycle trail.

I thought the Ballard Chamber of Commerce was an organization I could support. If they explicitly don't support the Burke-Gilman Trail extension, which is a totally reasonable improvement that isn't going to put any industries out of business and only reflects the current and growing need to facilitate cycle traffic in Ballard, I'm definitely going to boycott those member businesses.

If you or anyone knows someone from the Ballard Chamber of Commerce, please request that they comment on this post and state clearly what their position is about this issue.

For those of you who are feeling like a little retribution for those businesses listed as members on the Ballard Chamber site; please think twice. As Romanza has demonstrated, that info is not necessarily correct. I personally know several local businesses who have chosen to discontinue their membership of the Chamber.

The Ballard Chamber of Commerce and Beth Miller Williamson have been self-serving for years; as opposed to supporting local business and the community at large.

From a community standpoint - I attended every public meeting regarding the upgrade to Bergen Square park and the result is nothing like what the citizens of Ballard wanted - instead it is simply a venue for the Seafood Fest. Now don't get me wrong - I love me my Seafood Fest; but htis is just one example of doing what a narrow committee of self-interest does, not a committee of and by and for local business and community

And don't even get me started on the old skatebowl.

Ok - rant over... just do not judge local businesses by their supposed association with the Chamber.

I ride that stretch of road at least twice a week and I honestly don't see what the big deal is. If you think it's dangerous then I really have to question your skills as a cyclist. I know that sounds harsh but compared to other cities it's just not that bad. If you think it is you should try crossing wet cable car tracks on a 17% grade hill in San Francisco or iced over MBTA tracks in Boston. As for drivers, Seattle drivers are a LOT better than those in many other cities I've ridden in. As for the pavement, yeah it's not great but I've also ridden over much worse. I really wonder how many of the cyclists who are complaining have any riding experience outside of Seattle. There are many areas where Seattle seriously lags behind other cities but cycling isn't one of them.

In a perfect world we'd have nice smooth bike lanes everywhere and plenty of lanes for cars. However, that's NEVER going to happen. On the long list of transit improvements that need to be made in this city I really don't see why this one needs to be near the top of the list.

Deep bore tunnel! In fact, let's just make the Highway 99 tunnel extend through the industrial section of Ballard.

Seriously, the industrial section is vital to this area. We need to figure out ways to support it, not get angry over their concerns. Having said that, I also agree, as an avid cyclist, that this city is sooooo much easier to get around than other metro areas. I was here when the first sections of the BG were dedicated. It's a dream to have it complete from Woodinville to GG, but not a mandate. In time, the trail will be completed, but in the meantime, I agree, going through Old Ballard is a lot nicer!

As a biz owner on the trail site, I have witnessed firsthand the unsafe and bullying behavior of bicyclists. I know that this is only a "snapshot" of cyclists as a whole, but the lack of reason for the industrial businesses that provide many jobs boggles my mind! Perhaps many of you are right, and businesses that pay family wage jobs need to go away. After all, we have a booming economy going! I am hoping to last another ten years and then shut my doors.....it will only be a dozen jobs that will go away, and I assume a competitor will absorb those jobs, but that is tax money that will leave Seattle, disposable income leaving Ballard...........this is just crazy!

Thanks, Cyclocrossmechanic for a little perspective.

I do love the Seattle way of getting things done - simply delaying and delaying until everyone is so tired of the issue that ANY decision seems like progress. It is amazing how many things seem to work that way. If I were a gambler, I would bet that the trail gets finished right about the time we figure out hover cars.

I do ride this section and I think it is very unsafe. The road is rough, the speed of traffic is high, and room is tight. Unless I am in a hurry, I try to detour onto Ballard Ave.

Actually Lester, you pay for roads with your car... not bike trails. If we need a specific trail for bikes, bicyclists should pay for it!

bmvaughn

Roads maintained by the city of seattle are payed for by property tax and are NOT funded by gas tax.

Bicyclist already pay for the roads, as do walkers and everyone else.

I don't get it -- the currently funded construction only covers the SE section of the "gap", and shouldn't affect businesses there negatively. It moves bikes and pedestrians off the street, makes the railroad track crossing a perpendicular one, and puts a much-needed stoplight at Shilshole & 17th. What's the problem?
I'm a cyclist AND a supporter of BTR, SBS&G, etc.

matt:

I am far from against bike lanes but 11¢ per gallon goes to counties and cities for roads

Long Timer:

Back to your suggestion to contact the Ballard Chamber of Commerce board members directly.

Vic Opperman is no longer on the board, either, but said she's put a call in to find out how they arrived at this decision.

"Strongarmed Biz Owner" is selling his/her biz in ten years, and by then I bet a number of other businesses over in that area will be gone too. They'll sell to developers like Sunset Bowl did, and all of this will be a moot point.

I hate to see jobs go too, but this city is changing. How long until the Port of Seattle is gone?

ballardini,

That is the problem with having a developer for a mayor. rail/sea are the most efficient way to transport material and goods. If Seattle only becomes a bedroom community for Microsoft and Starbucks I'm sure all of our quality of life will decline.

Someone somewhere needs to be making materials into widgets so that we can afford to drink over priced coffee while shopping for produce that costs 3x as much Whole Foods because we are too cool to shop at Safeway.

I contacted the rep from Peoples Bank and Mark from Snoose Junction - both support the appeal. I'm attaching part of an email from Kristen at Peoples and even though Mark's business delivers pizzas by bike he views this as a safety issue the City hasn't adequately addressed in their current plan.


Following is the email from the Peoples Bank Board member, she voted to support the appeal. The good news is the Chamber is not opposed(they make me laugh) to the trail but the way the City is handling the SEPA review...
I contacted the Executive Director for the Ballard Chamber of Commerce to get more specific information about the position in which the Chamber Stands about the bike trail. As I indicated before the Chamber is not opposed to the bike trail, but the way in which the city is handling the SEPA (State Environment Policy Act) review process. The City has determined that there will be no measurable impact and have issued a determination of non-significance. The City is also refusing to study the impacts the trail will have on business operations under NEPA. (National Environmental Policy Act) With the loss of some 130 parking spots alone, the Chamber feels there will be adverse effects and that the city should have to mitigate these effects. This does not include a number of other concerns, including how it will affect some of our industrial businesses.

I am in the process of getting a copy of the proposed bike trail and from what I can remember the new trail is going to have cyclists cross over Shilshole Ave on to Ballard Ave and then cross over Shilshole Ave again. This leaves many questions: How do they anticipate bicyclists crossing Shilshole Ave safely? Will there be lights put in? With the loss of 130 parking spots do they know the impact on local businesses both retail and industrial?

Because this is a sensitive area near the shoreline, it's doubtful that a private entity could do anything similar without a SEPA review. The Chamber feels the city should have to abide by the same standards. Our signing on to the appeal is to ask the hearing examiner to make them go through this review process.

@54 So, they are appealing to SEPA because of parking issues? The appeal doesn't list any environmental impacts of the project...if you read it, it's an absolute embarrassment to businesses who pay dues to the Ballard Chamber.

If they have questions about the project design, they should have gone to the numerous open houses the city held, rather than holding up a needed safety fix by months in court, wasting untold thousands of dollars.

This stretch along Shilshole is notoriously bad and I avoid it because of cement truck drivers, and normal drivers that don't look when pulling out of the sidestreets (20th & 22nd). No matter how skilled you are, these guys are a challenge.

The only time I am on Shilshole ave now is sunday mornings early, headed southeast...

Personally I would like to see the trail go up Ballard Ave starting at 17th, and continue up to Market. This is the route I take anyway and it's more fun to dodge drunks walking instead of 'ment trucks accelerating...
Oh, save for the dumb folks backing out of the health club gym... wot's up with that, folks? LOOK OUT! ;-)

"With the loss of some 130 parking spots alone, the Chamber feels there will be adverse effects and that the city should have to mitigate these effects. This does not include a number of other concerns, including how it will affect some of our industrial businesses."

That's it in a nutshell. I am not buying Snoose Junctions-Mark's safety concerns. They are in bed with Ballard Oil and Salmon Bay. They've been blocking the plan for years, hence the "missing link".

For shame........

Would anyone like to join me in setting up some lawn chairs and, with counters in hand, actually determining the number of cyclists who use that route for their commute on a daily basis?

"They are in bed with Ballard Oil"

Little Oil...grrrrrrrrrrrr!

the cement truck drivers ARE kamakazis for sure. i do see the issue of safety that comes up concerning ballard oil's hesitence. have you seen the trucks they cram into that small area? who has the right of way with that kind of situation. it reminds me of that back intersection behind fred meyers that crosses the trail. those bikes whizzz by so fast. would that stretch of the trail be on market instead?

I drive just like a bicyclist.....except with a 330ci.

Last post didn't make it, maybe too long

Fact-trail, industry already exists-witness 3rd to 11th, where SBSG moved in AFTER the trail was built, Kvichak Marine moved in AFTER the trail was built

Fact-the Chamber could be at the cutting edge of developing a bike-friendly culture in Ballard--how about offering ' $1 off your movie ticket if you biked here today' A win-win--less need for parking, bikers say, I love that!

Fact-SBSG owner spent $9k last quarter on lobbying by George Griffin, pre-eminent public interest consultant. (Check the 4:33 pm 1/12/09 quarterly expense report)
http://www2.seattle.gov/ethics/lobbyists/report...

Fact-the owner of SBSG signed a franchise agreement to operate the RR and agreed, in that franchise to ALLOW the city to build a trail in all sections of the right-of-way where the RR operates. Go figure.

Fact--no one who has been in this little tiff from the beginning (i'm one of those people), want to see any business go away--bad idea--we just don't buy the argument that a reorganization of the publicly owned right-of-way will cause any business to go away--see Fact#1 above--many businesses have moved in adjacent to the trail after it was built.

Fact--The City's plans are available here.

http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/missingli...

Staff from SDOT have bent over backwards to address the concerns of adjacent businesses, and has been pointed out in the comments by Cascade staff, the current alignment IS a Compromise, not currently planned to run in front of SBSG.

So, this isn't about family wage jobs and trail supporters wanting to take them away, or the 'rights' of bikers being squashed by powerful industrialists--in my view, it's about using public land for the safest and best use, in this case, moving vehicles (including cars, trucks, bikes) and pedestrians along safely and securely. Kind of like motherhood and apple pie, don't you think??

I am neither a cyclist nor do I have a vested interest in the heavy industry in Ballard. It seems to me that the industrial district was here long before the cyclist were striving for a trail and the what this area and economy needs are more industrial employers who provide real jobs and make real products. On the other hand the idea of the trail coming this far just to have a giant hick up in it seems like such a sinful waste.!! Is there any way the trail could go directly along the water the way it does through Freemont and further along toward the U-district? I know it would be much, much, more costly but if it's that important to the cyclists (and they are the new ones on the block here) then they should try to raise the funds to make it happen. The industrial segments that are already struggling to survive shouldn't have to be strapped with the liability and hassle.

Kimble (and others),
You are presenting a false choice. Bike trails and industry live peacefully side by side in many other cities. Where's the evidence that bikes and industrial businesses can't coexist? How on earth would a grade separated bike path have a negative economic impact on industrial businesses? The safety argument looks pretty hollow given existing conditions, so other than losing a bunch of parking spots (when the real missing link gets completed, not this interim version), how would this trail negatively impact business (evidence from Portland and other cities shows that this could in fact have a positive impact)? Serioulsy, would someone provide some evidence or a real explanation, not just a statement without support? Some other notes: I'm not a lawyer, but taking away parking spots does not seem like something that a SEPA review would cover (I'm pretty sure that removing parking has a positive environmental effect); the Burke is part of a regional transportation network and is not just for commuters; and finally - The BINMIC neighborhood plan supports "the development of a multimodal transportation network" and the Crown Hill -Ballard Neighborhood Plan supports the "completion of the Burke Gilman trail through Ballard."

Gee we lived with Salmon Bay Sand & Gravel and Ballard Oil and all those other businesses all these years and got along fine on the road. Til all you babies came along with no thought of anything but your wonderful selves. You have a pretty little picture of the ballard you want? All bicycles and prams and pizza and me me me. No big old trucks and dirt and men with muscles earned from working instead of at your gym running on the hamster wheel. Yuck. Why oh why did we even birth you all.

Thanks Craig for posing the questions that are most pertinent to the discussion.

The railroad passes by the Locks parking lot on runs to pick up cement cars, where nearly 3 million people yearly cross the tracks yearly--aren't the owners more concerned some unwitting tourist will be killed there?

Don't SBSG, Ballard Oil and other company's trucks operate all over the city, backing up into construction sites adjacent to schools, hospitals, homes, the sidewalks and streets nearby crowded with the young and old, walking and biking? Aren't those daily excursions more dangerous to the citizenry than the --2 mile an hour approach to a stop line, look both ways, then cross the trail and merge into traffic-- that would occur if the street in front of the businesses was organized/configured to include a trail?

I don't understand the vehemence of the opposition. Someone please help me on this.

Iloveseatown,

The thing is that the bicycling folks have TRIED to work with the industrial folks and for years (decades?) the BINMIC group has been fighting tooth and nail to tell cyclists to GO AWAY!

They don't want to work with cyclists, they want us to stay far away.

Cyclists work just fine on the trail in Interbay that goes right through the BNSF switchyard.

Cyclists work just fine on the BGT through the industrial area east of Fred Meyer in Ballard/Fremont. ...mixing with cement trucks and boat building freight.

Cyclists work just fine on the BGT in Kenmore through yet another heavy-cargo area.

A trail with appropriate crossings adjacent to shilshole would be better than what we currently have, but BINMIC argued and now we have a missing link route that is sub-optimal and is intimidating to parents with children...but even that isn't good enough for BINMIC, they want to stop even that.

The message I get is that these businesses are just unwilling to consider ANY option that puts bicycles anywhere near them even though bicycles are already going through the area.

I definitely can see the concerns of the industries along the route, even as a cyclist myself - it is tough to anticipate what will happen at every driveway - and with companies like Salmon Bay that have operations on both sides of the street, increased wait times at the trail will probably slow things down.

On the other hand all of us "new green yuppies" are the ones building the condos and improving the houses that use all the cement that SB&G has been selling at a record pace the past decade. Their location gives them access to a big market - access that they wouldn't have in puyallup or where ever industrial business shangri-la is.

So... let's compromise. Why not just improve the paving, add some striping, defind driveways, and call it a day? losing 130 spaces to create a space age idea bike route seems like overkill... but so does industry pretending that it is still 1970.

I'm curious what makes the CONCRETE trucks (not cement...if you want to push your weight around and sound smart, atleast get your facts straight!) The danger here??? I'm more scared of the idiots passing on the right and driving on the shoulder to pass cars and trucks turning left.

If you want to finish the trail, take it up Ballard Ave instead of hoping with fingers crossed that two of Ballards oldest companies go out of business or move. You're talking about people giving up their lively hood for 1/2 mile worth of trail. Pathetic.

Puggles (and others),
OK, I'll ask again, where’s the evidence that bikes and industrial businesses can’t coexist? Can someone please provide some evidence or a real explanation (not just a statement without support) that a grade separated bike path would have a negative economic impact on industrial businesses? Please?

Criag, there is no place to put a grade separated path in this location. There are forklifts etc... crossing the road all day long.

Lets just route it down Ballard ave or Market. A simple solution and we don't have to deal with the mess down there on shilshole.

No place? There's multiple feet of public right of way on both sides of the road that's currently being used as parking - that's tons of space. There's really no space on Market and Ballard Ave (have you seen the sidewalks on Ballard Ave??) What's different between bikes and cars for forklifts crossing the road? Signage and marked driveways solves that problem (if it's even a real problem). Still waiting for a real explanation.

Ballard Ave is not large enough to accommodate a bike trail. Market is not even close to viable because there's no way to connect it with the rest of the trail by Fred Meyer. 15th is entirely too busy to have a bike path crossing it.

Can someone please explain how installing a bike path is going to cause the businesses on Shilshole to go out of business?

Craig, people have posted the problems, yet you dismiss them. The difference between bikes and cars is that bikes are much more difficult to spot, bikes tend to dart in/out/around instead of stopping, and bikes (and their riders!) are much more vulnerable to damage in collisions. Signage and marked driveways won't affect any of these conditions.

As for a Market/Ballard route, there are multiple feet of public right of way on both sides of these roads that’s currently being used as parking - that’s tons of space for a grade-separated path, as I'm sure you'd agree. :)

BB mentioned the Locks parking lot and the rail line there. There's essentially no safety issue there, because the tourists are "time-separated" from the train traffic, which occurs at night after the Locks are closed and the tourists are gone.

Mondo,
I am not dismissing problems, I just read through this entire comment thread and I did not find a single piece of evidence regarding how a bike path along shilshole would have a negative impact on the industrial businesses in the area. I strongly support our industrial businesses and wish to encourage their existence in every way possible (they are the real economic drivers of our city), but just because they say that a bike path will drive them out of business does not make it fact. On street parking on Ballard and Market is crucial to the continued survival of those businesses because it generates foot traffic and allows people easy access to businesses, so it makes little sense to remove all of those spots for a bike path (though evidence from Portland shows that to remove one or two spots and replace it with bike parking greatly boosts business). I have also read the complaint, and it also fails to provide any reasonable evidence as to how exactly, other than the removal of 130 parking spots, a bike path would have a negative impact on the industrial businesses in the area (though the traffic analysis indicates that most of those spots are used by employees in the area). The complaint simply claims that the City failed to review a laundry list of things, most of which have nothing to do with SEPA, along with making the unsubstantiated claim that it will create unsafe conditions. How can anyone seriously argue that the proposed path would make things less safe than the completely unnacceptable conditions that exist today? Again, can someone please provide a reasonable and well grounded argument as to how exactly a bike path along shilshole would negatively impact the industrial businesses in our neighborhood?

iloveseatown,
I'd like to respond to your comment that there are forklifts and other equipment crossing the road all of the time and as such a trail is impossible.

Just 1/2 mile to the southeast, on the existing trail, I have frequently seen a guy walking up and down the trail with a handcart hauling a few boxes at a time between businesses. I've also had no problem at all dealing with the concrete trucks, steel delivery trucks, asphalt trucks, gravel or sand trucks, UPS and FEDEX trucks, and all of the other traffic.

The thing is, all of the traffic I mention above already crosses the trail. Take a walk from Fred Meyer to Canal Park, it is maybe a 1/2 mile walk and it won't kill you. Once you pass ActiveSpace you'll notice that on your right is a cement/concrete facility. On your left is a construction and contractor supply place, then on the right is boatbuilding. Then the trail crosses railroad tracks with a fairly decent rubber surface that is only iffy when wet and people take it too fast at a sharp angle. Then more industry to the right. Finally a sand, gravel, and asphalt loading site.

Many hundreds of cyclists already pass through this safely every day.

The two first rules of bicycle safety are:
1. Be Predictable
2. Be Visible

When the road is as bad as shilshole, cyclists start doing unpredictable things. A trail funnels most of them in a predictable place.

Mondo@74

The choo-choo doesn't just run at night. It's variable.

And as the days get longer and brighter, there'll be lots more runs when people are visiting the Locks.

My point is really that it's a specious argument to say that a trail would in any way limit rail operations, or that there are safety concerns for trail users specifically related to the train operations. And let's not forget that the owner of Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel's signature is affixed to the 1997 Franchise Agreement legally stipulating that, when it wants to, the City can build a trail within the franchise area (the 'rail-trail corridor')

MichaelSnyder,

Nice insults, I use that bit of trail far more then you. I bike and skate more places then you probably go. Actually currently I skate on a long board from the end of the existing trail down to Fremont to lake union and then downtown, If you see a guy in a long board in the rain, that will me me. I don't have a place to lock up a bike at work, I get to carry my board in.

I was responding to Craig who said there could be a "grade separated" trail on shilshole which would greatly impact the companies there.

Even if the new path isn't "grade separated" i think the best and safest path is the one that I follow today. I go the Fred Meyer turn right up to the 7/11 then head up Leary to either Ballard AVE or up to market.

It's not much longer, much safer and hey...if me skating half mile won't kill me surely you biking that extra 1/4 mile won't either.

We need to quit being so selfish with our alt transportation needs, it doesn't need to follow the water all the time.

BTW, with the gravel that is always on the trail by the hot plant (correct term for the asphalt plant near ActiveSpace they don't do Concrete) has caused many crashes that I have witnessed. Seeing as I have tiny little urethane wheels I'm surprised it hasn't been me.

You don't know me! Maybe you've met me, but you don't know the nights I NEVER go to sleep. The nights I've spent making the sickest deals with the devil to bring my little girl back to me. the thousands of times I'd wished I'd never have let her go rafting, the thousands of times that I've relived the policeman knocking on my door at 11:12 pm on a Saturday night asking if "Are the the father of Jasmine Ball", not having to hear anymore, because I already knew that she was dead.
Put words in my mouth that it's financial, that I'm in bed with other companies and won't seperate myself, you tell that to my other kids who never get to see their big sister again, ever! Only one person out of all the calls that came in to me even identified herself by name, "Hey, Jo." And then, low and behold, just what I was talking about, there's a two kids out there as of Wednesday morning that never get to see their daddy again. NOW, put words in my mouth, now tell me that every night when my riders go out in the rain and the snow and the dark, that I don't fear a call telling me something has gone wrong! Come tell me to my face, come into my shop and talk to my crew about me, you hide behind cute little phrases and initials, declare yourself - put yourself in my hands - I've got twenty lives in mine - what do you have?

I am preparing a bike plan for City of Bothell. I would like to hear from you if you would like to draw my attention to specific item. Please feel free to contact me at (206) 263-6116 or e-mail me.