Derek posted this message and photo in the forum:
The new garbage trucks are so wide they barely fit down the alley. Yesterday, they TOTALED my neighbors garage, it is six feet off its foundation now!
Derek says it happened yesterday in an alley off Earl Ave. in Loyal Heights. We brought the incident to the attention of Seattle Public Utilities spokesperson Cornell Amaya, who said he has not heard of any issues with the new garbage trucks being too wide for some alleys.
Update: Now KING 5 has done the story, and Waste Management says they’re meeting with the homeowner and will make sure he’s properly compensated.
so who stepped up to the plate? the driver or the homeowner? when i read this, i “interpret” it as the driver did nothing….
Wow, my neighbor who always parks a half-foot or so into the alley needs to watch out!
Did they leave a note? ;-)
Seriously though, even the old trucks were too large for some of the alleyways and my own garage was damaged by their gigantic truck two weeks ago. I've talked to the recycling guys and the waste guys just as they were attempting to navigate the alleyway behind my house and they have been trying to get certain alleyways off the pickup route and changed over to the street side because the trucks are too big and it's really difficult for them to work in such a tight space. They said to call SPU and maybe even the mayor's office. In just the past few months my garage has been damaged (flashing and shingles ripped off), siding scratched, my neighbor's fence and part of their tree was ripped out, the fence in back of me was badly damaged a few years ago. They have got to change some of these routes back to the street side or get mini-trucks. There is only about 1-2 inches of clearance between the truck and my garage and the fence on the other side of the alleyway.
When I talked to the guys they were really nice and very bummed out when they snagged the neighbor's tree but they are forced to use the alleyways unless there's enough complaints, apparently they alone can't get the route changed even though they are the experts when it comes to knowing which ones are too narrow. (SPU needs to listen to them and not wait until damage occurs.)
Did they leave a note? ;-)
Seriously though, even the old trucks were too large for some of the alleyways and my own garage was damaged by their gigantic truck two weeks ago. I've talked to the recycling guys and the waste guys just as they were attempting to navigate the alleyway behind my house and they have been trying to get certain alleyways off the pickup route and changed over to the street side because the trucks are too big and it's really difficult for them to work in such a tight space. They said to call SPU and maybe even the mayor's office. In just the past few months my garage has been damaged (flashing and shingles ripped off), siding scratched, my neighbor's fence and part of their tree was ripped out, the fence in back of me was badly damaged a few years ago. They have got to change some of these routes back to the street side or get mini-trucks. There is only about 1-2 inches of clearance between the truck and my garage and the fence on the other side of the alleyway.
When I talked to the guys they were really nice and very bummed out when they snagged the neighbor's tree but they are forced to use the alleyways unless there's enough complaints, apparently they alone can't get the route changed even though they are the experts when it comes to knowing which ones are too narrow. (SPU needs to listen to them and not wait until damage occurs.)
The drivers can be careless at times too… a couple years ago our neighbor's garden & short retaining wall was damaged by a truck who just kept on going then when stopped further down the alley by another neighbor said there was nothing they would do and left. The truck are large and unfortunately some of the drivers are not very considerate.
It also doesn't help that most of these alleys are full of resident's stuff that shouldn't be there to begin with. The alley is a service route, and should be kept clear. I see so many folks build fences righ to the edge of the alley, then place their pales (and whatever else they feel like) outside of the fence in the right of way. Plus you got the fronts and backs of cars poking out, basketball goals, shrubs, etc.
Driver error is driver error. But let's do what we can to make this job easy as possible for these guys.
i am with boardbrown on this one–we should do what we can to help these guys out as i am sure they are doing their very best and getting that HUGE truck down these teeny tiny alleys has got to be tough. obviously, right?
i am sure that drivers make poor decisions and have accidents sometimes, as we all make errors but it seems to me, overall, these guys have been really nice. at least when i have encountered them in my alley.
do those trucks have to be so huge?
Hey Jules, I think the bigger trucks come with the larger scope of work. I was alarmed when I first saw them too, but it makes sense once you think about it. They're picking up way more types and quantities of stuff than before, and to make it pencil they need to make as few dump runs as possible.
I feel for the guy w/ the busted garage though. It makes me glad I live on a block where we haul our containers out to the front street (our alley doesn't go all the way through).
makes sense, boardbrown. i wish they would move mine to the curb to avoid this stuff. that garage was a mess! my alley is piled up with neighbors stuff, as you suggested, and i am afraid it is only a matter of time for this to happen! have a sunny afternoon. :)
Hmmm…is that recycles, yard waste or 'other'?
thanks for the other side of the story. i don't have this service so logistically i didn't know.
it sounds like it just needs some vocal rattling to possibly change the route to the street. and it sounds like the driver's encourage it.
Just pay your taxes and keep your trap shut, in other words
hmmm…pay taxes, yes (extra if you're so inclined)
Trap shut?….Even if my lips were stitched…I'd have MyBallard!!
I'd say that the alleys have to be clear, and the drivers need to use more caution.
Any combination of the above will result in the same issue, someplace else. This major garbage transition can't go without some challenges. The pick-up schedules, the access issues, and the new trucks…yeah, and perhaps new structural set-backs are in order. I hope that the structure is replaced, with-out expense to the homeowner.
Well, it sure as heck wasn't and errant Yugo that took it out. Wow, I can't believe anyone would/could just casually drive off from damage like that. Maybe its time to equip those narrow, private alleys with retractable tire spikes! ;-)
I've noticed that since the change has happened in routes the garbage trucks seems to be around every day in Loyal Heights. Maybe they are just trying to get their new trucks working and all that but its strange to see so many around.
The drivers did stop to alert the homeowner who was home at the time of the accident. There was also multiple people from the city checking it out that afternoon.
we don't need to change the pick up spot from the alley thank you. works just fine. gee an accident happens and ya gotta change everything.
Hmmmmm….I wondered where the deep scrapes on my newly painted fence came from. Now I know! Didn't SPU consider the widths of these alleys before ordering new trucks??? My alley is completely clear of debris…the path is clear, but the old trucks were tight squeeze. I can't afford to replace my fence….now I'm nervous that it'll be damaged.
disagree.
new trucks = new ballard. alleys = old ballard
sorry, couldn't resist.
Horrible! Shouldn't they have done measurements and training before ordering these trucks and having their drivers drive them???
Waste Management has good customer service people at upper levels, so I'm sure they'll at least be nice to the homeowner. I hope compensation is adequate too.
I have to disagree with the move to put garbage at curbside. Blocks with alleys are designed to have these services happen in the backs of homes. I can't imagine hauling large recycling bins over steps out to the front of the house, or storing large, unsightly bins in front. Having had the street-side experience too, I *really* prefer clean curbs. So let's focus the complaints on clear alleys and careful driving, please.
Well, I've noticed an increase, sort of, not more trucks, but more trucks mid-day… what's that about? They used to be first thing in the morning, and virtually non-existent in the day time. Now they have bankers hours? That doesn't make much sense to me.
Of course, if I were czar, I would mandate the staggering of hours, for every industry, so that there would be no rush hour. I'd start with the garbage trucks, before sunrise, and end with elected officials…they could sleep in ;-)
Wonder no more friend. Yes, I'd move the fence before I'd ever repaint it ;-)
And no, they didn't consider such a trivial issue as the width of your alley.
Do you remember the vehicles that the city purchased that wouldn't fit in their own bus tunnel?
Sorry, but somebody had to say it. (Thanks McCheese)
Agreed, but would add that smaller trucks would have to be utilized. I'm guessing that two trucks would cost less to operate than replacing a structure now and then.
I am curious how this will play out.
What is the compensation for a crappy old garage that's ruined? From the photo, you can tell it's likely original with the house and I would guess eighty years old. It was probably too small to house a car and certainly wouldn't comply with any current building code.
Does the city just cut them a check for the $500 this structure MIGHT be worth or do they actually re-build it to code to the tune of $8000?
Also, why build it right against the alley if you access it from the other side?
For 23 years garbage trucks have gone up our alley, picking up the waste cans. No problem. Last October we were told that the alley was too small and garbage bins had to be taken by the homeowners, to the street for pickup. There are no buildings close to the alleyway. An immense hassle especially during the bad weather. I complained to SPU-no reply. Funny, but you know the garbage trucks have no trouble taking a short cut up the alley to go to other routes on our usual garbage pickup day. None of the neighbors have an area in front of their houses to store the cans, recycle bins etc.
The spokesperson hasn't heard of any issues huh? Sounds like THIS is an issue :)
On a related note, I didn't get my garbage or recycling picked up the first week of the new contracts. When I asked for a refund of the missed service I was told “Oh no, we can't do that”… Funny becuase they sure can charge double if you can't shut the lid on your trashcan.
Also havn't gotten the little food waste bins.. seems that no one on my block has them
Again the reply from the waste company… Oh that's not good, because you're being charged for one!!
Seriously guys get your act together.
Maybe it was the same garbage guy who decided that 8:45am would be the best time to mosey down 8th Ave. to pick up garbage. Cars going south were backed up for several blocks with no way to get around him. Ironically it was “tax day” too. Bend over and say “mc cheese!”
Are you suggesting there's some kind of 'rogue' garbage man who's goin' around town trampling over fences, ramming into garages, and purposefully holding up traffic by working arterial and collector streets right during rush hour?
that explains the maniacal laugh I heard as my yard waste bin was emptied.
Nobody is suggesting this change, dotballard. I simply stated that I like my front curb service. What I am suggesting is that folks do the best they can to keep their alleys clear, because many are not. And don't tell me where to focus my comments.
was there something in your bin that was funny? a maniac garbage collector, NOW i have heard it all! (lol)
Either this is the same alleyway as mine or a block away. The problem clearly is that the width of the trucks has increased to the point where it's just too tight in some spots to navigate them easily. Even with absolutely no extra debris or obstacles, there's no way to make the alley wider to accommodate the trucks, plus most of the garages that are built up to the edge of the alley were constructed as much as 80-90 years ago as mine was. We can't move our garages to make way for a giant truck for which the alleyway was never designed to accommodate. There's also no reason why anyone should have to move a fence (or a garage) that is legally on their property unless you think it's ok to give the city your property for free and still pay the same taxes for a smaller parcel. If the city wants to cover the cost to move garages and fences and lower the property taxes accordingly so that their trucks can fit in the alleyway then maybe they should consider that but for some areas, it makes better sense to have the pickup at the curb on the street side.
You raise some interesting points clamster. Perhaps a land use attorney can clarify for me, but I think we already HAVE given the city our property. According to the DPD (a city department I interact with all the time), our rear property lines are technically the center line of the alley. The City classifies the alleys as a right-of-way or easement. Again, this is just my understanding…
But the fact remains, there are still rules about keeping the alley clear. I've seen some people build little nooks into their rear fences to that the fronts of their cans sit flush with the surface of the fence. But others just plop them out there, making the alleys harder to navigate.
have you heard of 'C.A.O.?'…requiring homeowners to relinquish the rights inherent in the ownership of their property is nothing new here. And most cheered that flawed and unfortunate law. I made a tongue in cheek joke about the fence earlier, but it's closer than you think…we are wrong, McCheese is right, deal with it…
Heaven forbid Waste Management or SPU should give the drivers any authority in the matter. What do they know about the trucks and the routes? Sheesh.
It's true that the alleys weren't depicted on most (if not all) of the plats in ballard. The lot lines may be the centerline of the alley but this is in no way your property line. Same way your property line might not follow a lot line if you own a portion of a lot. Most likely these alleys were condemned by the city before the lot was initially sold, so we definitely didn't have to give the city out property. Whoever filed the plat most likely had to set the land aside for the public just like they had to with the streets.
awesome.
Wow boardbrown. Don't take my comments so personally. I did read a couple of posts suggesting people complain to SPU about moving service to curbside, and was responding to that.
I'm fairly certain that the property lines start at the edge of the alleyway. At least they do on my block. I measured it myself a few times many years ago when my former crazy-a** pack-rat neighbor tried to build a fence on my property. I got a bunch of info, some plat charts with measurements, etc. from the assessor's office. The alleys were just never designed to accommodate trucks this wide.