However, I do not like that the gun industry tells people that guns make us safer. Perhaps in the hands of a person with the right training AND temperament, with the right consideration given towards secure storage, and with some luck, it is true. But, we are human after all, and statistics and common sense show that guns, which are designed to kill, are dangerous.

In my opinion, the pro-gun lobby spins statistics and cultivates fear far more than their opposition. I agree with you that the US is generally a safe place, and that most gun violence is fed by the insane drug war and consists of criminals killing other criminals. For me personally, I have a wife and kid in my house, and decided a long time ago that the risks of gun ownership far outweigh any potential benefit. In general, people own guns out of fear, and when I hear of someone I know buying a weapon for protection, my first thought is that they wussed out.

“The major surveys completed in the past 20 years or more provides no evidence of
any relationship between the total number of legally held firearms in society and the rate of armed crime. Nor is there a
relationship between the severity of controls imposed in various countries or the mass of bureaucracy involved with many control systems with the apparent ease of access to firearms by criminals and terrorists”

Colin Greenwood, “Minutes of Evidence”, Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs, January 29, 2003.

Pistols are also more practical for self defense and actually our victimization rate is pretty good in this country. You are for more likely to be a victim of violent crime in England then you are here in the united states. Most of the violent crime in this country is criminal against criminal due to the silly war on drugs and the rampant amount of organized crime in this country.

Mahtli69, if you ever want to sit and have coffee and talk about this let me know, I think we could have a productive talk even if it just cements our personal beliefs more.

The pool statistics are given to give a comparative risk to an inanimate object. As humans we are really good at misplacing the actual risk imposed by activities or inanimate objects. Look at BHO and his fear of the homeless when most of the violent crime is committed by people who may not be high on the economic ladder but tend to have a domicile of their own. Now before he comes back with stories yes there are bad people in any group, but the majority of people are good.

There are a lot of dangerous things in life from cars to chainsaws, haven made the effort to learn safe gun handling and by observing the four simple rules of gun safety I have personally mitigated the risk to the point where it is really statistically insignificant.

As for the Suicide issue it is complicated, and also note that those states with high rates do tend to have less services and and high risk populations. Unfortunately there are several ways to effectively end ones life even in the heat of the moment if one makes that tragic decision.

The DOJ statistics are from cases where there was an arrest or a conviction, something that does not happen with every defensive use.

“More than 450,000 crimes, including 10,744 murders, are committed with guns each year. But Americans also use guns defensively about 2.5 million times a year, and 98 percent of the time merely brandishing the weapon is sufficient to stop an attack.”

Bogus lawsuits a crime against gun-owning public, Washington Times Feb. 24, 1999.

As for the rape victims being attacked by those they know, of course a firearm is not a magic talisman, it is a force multiplier and that is it, a tool that should be your last resort. I would assume that these statistics do include attacks by people known by the victim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Sw...

My point is that there are more rifles than handguns in Switzerland. Rifles are inherently safer because 1) they are difficult to conceal and 2) it's easier to hit what you aim at. It also isn't legal to carry a gun around with you unless you have a specific reason to do so (like a job in security).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Sw...

Switzerland is 3rd in the world with 46 guns per 100 residents. The US is 1st, with 90 guns per 100 residents. What was chopper_74's point about violent crime statistics again?

I disagree with you regarding suicides. Suicides often occur when someone who is inclined towards depression has a psychological crisis. In these cases, suicide is usually an impulsive act, so access to a firearm will greatly increase the chance of them going through with it. According to the CDC, firearms accounted for 55% of all suicides in the US. According to the Harvard School of Public Health, the 15 states with the highest number of gun owners had double the suicide rate of the 6 states with the lowest number of gun owners. Population sizes of the states were similar. Globally, there are other cultural factors that make a direct comparison complicated.

I'm curious about your DOJ statistics, because they seem extremely incorrect. According to this victimization survey by the
DOJ (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/hvfsdaft...), the average annual number of victimizations in which victims used firearms to defend themselves or their property is 82,500. This is significantly less than the 2.5 million per year that you claim (link please).

The same survey also says that there are an average of 340,700 crimes per year in which firearms are stolen. So, according to the DOJ, a gun is more than 4x as likely to be stolen as it is to be used to thwart a crime.

Finally, the statistics regarding rape victims are interesting, but ignore the fact that 70% of rape victims know their attacker. I would expect that firearms are far less likely to be used in cases where the victim knows the attacker, and your statistics are skewed accordingly. Your assault statistics for both men and women are similarly biased. How many of the 2.5x more likely to be seriously injured unarmed women are being assaulted by a loved one?

Comparing a gun to a pool?

Pistols are also the most common firearm to be used in defense situations. In fact 80% of gun defenses, the defender used a concealable handgun.

Cramer C and Kopel D. Shall issue: the new wave of concealed handgun permit laws. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994

In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.

Bureau of Justice Statistics, online database, reviewing Texas and U.S. violent crime from 1995-2001.

1) In 1993, there were 1,334 drownings and 528 firearm-related accidental deaths from ages
0-19. Firearms outnumber pools by a factor of over 30:1. Thus, the risk of drowning in a pool is
nearly 100 times higher than from a firearm-related accident for everyone, and nearly 500 times
for ages 0-5.

National Center for Health Statistics, and the National Spa and Pool Institute

2) Worldwide, the per capita suicide rate is fairly static (the suicide rate of the U.S. is lower than many industrial countries, including many where private gun
ownership is banned). A certain fraction of the population will commit suicide regardless of the
available tools.

3) The four year violent crime arrest rate for CCW holders is 128 per 100,000. For the general population, it is 710 per 100,000. In other words, the general public is 5.5 times more likely to commit a violent crime
than a CCW licensee.

“An Analysis Of The Arrest Rate Of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders As Compared To The Arrest
Rate Of The Entire Texas Population”, William E. Sturdevant, PE, September 11, 1999

Of the 2,500,000 annual self-defense cases using guns, more than 7.7% (192,500) are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse.

When a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of rape attacks are completed, compared to 32% when unarmed.

U.S. Department of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities, 1979

The probability of serious injury from an attack is 2.5 times greater for women offering no resistance than for women resisting with a gun. Men also benefit from using a gun, but the benefits are smaller at 1.4 times more likely to receive a serious injury.

Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey

Every year, people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times – more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds. 112 Of these instances, 15.6% of the people using a firearm defensively stated that they “almost certainly” saved their lives by doing so.

No one messes with the Swiss becasue they hold all the money. No other reason.

“There’s no clear relationship between more guns and higher
levels of violence.”

Keith Krause, Project Director, Small Arms Survey project, Graduate Institute of International Studies, Geneva,
2007

His security camera recorded a hooded man earlier this year walking into the pharmacy on the same day Donohue returned from the police station to identify a suspect from an earlier robbery.

it was Douglas and he has already pled guilty.