http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3436/3271608356_...

I could easily find 1000's more examples if you're interested.

Try http://www.artcrimes.com for a lot more “talented” graffiti..

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=icp+graffiti

Another good point is that if you allow for this kind of graffiti on your business, it is that much less likely to be vandalised in the future (which is why they do it so much in NYC or SF).

that link shows ACTUAL art, on BLANK walls. it would be hard NOT to agree that THAT graffiti is art. it's not some punk writing his name or GANG SIGN. that's my big issue. tagging around cities these days MORE OFTEN THAN NOT is related to gangs and turf boundaries. i'm kind of worried that more people haven't really addressed this, because it would be a MAJOR problem if the gangs in Seattle are let to expand and expand more than they already are. it's hard to get rid of gangs once they've been left to their own devices for too long.

ALSO, let me be very clear. there is an OBVIOUS difference between “tagging” (usually done by punk kids who want to break the law and show support for their gang), and ACTUAL graffiti. i know there is some overlap. but, yes, graffiti can be seen as art. TAGGING, in the sense that the morons who tagged the mural used, is the problem. that's when GRAFFITI stops being ART and becomes a slap in the face of the public.

Look deeper.

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/pictures/0,,1543331,...

Go for it.

I'm not sure why you're taxes would go towards purchasing fine art in a gallery?

Also, I was never trying to defend anyone's actions, only explaining what might help. While I have done my fair share of vandalism, I was always mindful about where I put my graffiti, “artistic” or not (ie: greedy corporations, under bridges, bland city walls, etc.). I do not condone tagging schools, homes, community murals, etc. I quit (more or less) because I'm too old to be running around at 4AM, risking arrest. When I do paint, it's usually at the aforementioned legal walls or under said bridges, etc.

As for the idea that graffiti in Seattle is largely untalented, generic or malevolent.. that's because there isn't very many good places to practice and “the buff” is considered tough in this town, as small business and private property owners can be fined for not removing said graffiti within 48(?) hours after a complaint is made. The city of Seattle actually fines property owners for graffiti!? All of this means that kids don't want to risk an extra 15 minutes or any unnecessary paint trying to make it look good. S.F., L.A. and New York, while having plenty of “ugly” vandalism, also have many more talented pieces and productions. Namely because it is supported by legal walls and legal productions that can be seen all around town, on shop sides, etc. that give kids the hope that they can actually do something people can enjoy AND that they actually get paid for (or, at least their paint paid for). I can only think of a handful at this time (Vain, Tubs, the MLK mural in S. Lake Union) but, I feel all of this has improved since the legal wall opened. Some people make no distinction between good or bad if it's illegal tho. Personally, I know that me and many other young people don't mind seeing colorful graffiti adorning and otherwise grey, lifeless city wall or what have you.

There are all different types of “writers” and there will ALWAYS be illegal graffiti but, I still stand by my case that supporting it as a legal artform would help give these kids another outlet and a means to use up that free time, paint and money.

That or, just build more skateparks and other things kids actually WANT to do. Portland is in the process of building 19 more. Seattle currently has one bowl here in Ballard (typically too big for younger kids), one DIY park in a sketchy area of SoDo, one absolute joke of a park almost completed at the Seattle Center and FINALLY one decent skatepark at Greenlake, which isn't always easy to bus to. I bring this up because there's a reason the 2 are so often related. If there were plenty of desirable skateparks with VISIBLE legal walls at them, I guarantee it would help tremendously. Not that it's going to happen anywhere, anytime soon.

“twas” has an apostrophe before it. for all my spelling errors, due to hasty typing, i at least try to use good grammar.

That said, if they are going to spray paint, why don't they use their so called talent (you said these guys were good) and make something worth looking at.

strong mind, indeed. attacking people's spelling on a blog forum. i'm actually very embarrassed to admit that i was happy that you backed me up at the beginning. i didn't know you were this execrable. please don't address me anymore, as i will be ignoring you.

i didn't intend this to turn out to be an attack by any means. i stated my opinions. they have not changed.

ex-graffiti “artists”, art SURE. fine, i'll bite. it's ART. you totally miss the point though. ART shouldn't DESTROY OTHER PEOPLES' ART. it's art when they don't do it to BREAK THE LAW and, or MAKE A NAME FOR THEMSELVES on the street. don't defend that. HOW can you defend that? if a free wall is all these hoodlums need, then FINE…write the appropriate people and get a wall going somewhere. i'm pretty sure that's not a TOTALLY accurate stat.

TILL THEN, arrest, fine, and put these people who are destroying the place they live, cause they sure don't give a S about the OTHER people who live here, to work FIXING AND PAYING FOR THEIR CRIMES.

all i've been saying is you can't go on and on about how “it's art” without pointing out that it's wrong because it HURTS THE COMMUNITY.

Let me just finish with this…when i taught in LA i had kids that would sit in class ALL DAY LONG and tag. books, binders, desks, themselves, almost every paper they turned in (IF THEY TURNED IT IN). point is, out of every 10 kids or so that were heavy taggers, about ONE actually passed my classes. i taught middle school. and i'm probably being VERY generous about my stats. you have your “cred” about tagging…i have MINE. i've seen the road it can lead down. i KNOW that is NOT always “ART”. it's mostly just lost kids looking to be cool however they can. it needs to be DEALT WITH. and a “free wall” will only slow the tide.

but, if it works at all…i should be tried.