Comments on: SeafoodFest still needs volunteers

By: Jules2

Jules2 — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:20:08 +0000

I think you owe me an apology. I do a lot for the Ballard community; it is laudable what you do for Whidbey- what do you do for Ballard?

Oh, and I am disabled AND unemployed. I don't have a house nor a summer house on Whidbey.

By: Jules2

Jules2 — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:10:50 +0000

Well, as I have been disabled the last two weeks, not as much as usual but in the last month:
Voluteer at the Nordic Heritage Museum-twice
Volunteered for the Sons of Norway Leif Erikson Lodge- I am on their Social Committee and used to be the newsletter editor
Volunteered for the Swedish Club- I cooked their National Day Dinner. Put on slide show "Nordic History of Ballard."
Volunteered at my church
Volunteered (last week) for the English Speaking Union
Put on a slide show for the Ballard Kiwanis last week
Volunteered for the "R Shoppe" in Ballard last week (benefiting the Ryther Child Center.- Wednesday- 6 hours
Former member, and newsletter editor, Seattle Mountain Rescue
Former President, Wild & Scenic Institute
I spent 17 years as the Program Director for the Washington Kayak Club, 1 year as Presideet, 8 years as Newletter Editor, and founded a non-profit Organization "Skyfest" raising money for American Whitewater.

Several of my volunteer activites are in Ballard; what my point was is that the guys down at Ballard Oil, Trident Seafood, etc volunteer a whole lot of time, money and effort to help the citizens of Ballard; they fabricated the barbeques, Trident donates the fish, those guys spend an entire weekend setting up, and standing in the blazing heat cooking salmon for the masses. So before people demonize these guys, they should look at what they do for THIS community. The guys at Pacific Fishermen donated their labor to restore a 100 year old boat for the Nordic Heritage Museum.

Looking around the Ballard Kiwanis, Ballard Elks, Norweigian Commercial club (gives out a lot of scholarships) and other groups in Ballard, I see a lot of the same faces of people who work in these "blue collar" industries helping out their fellow man.

By: drive_that_stretch

drive_that_stretch — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:00:04 +0000

Wow Jules2, do you think we all just sit in our houses and whine like you ? I spend most of the summer at my Whidbey house so here's what I've been doing. I come back to Sunset Hill a couple days a week to water my veggies and volunteer here in the fall & winter.

I think you asked the wrong person this smart ass question. Here's the list for the last 2 weeks....

Volunteered at the Langley Half Marathon providing drinks, food water and cheers for runners.

Walked dogs at the Whidbey Island animal shelter.

Worked in the Good Cheer garden that provides fresh veggies to the Food Bank

Drove my elderly neighbor to her Dr appt and to get groceries.

What have you done ?

By: SPG

SPG — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:48:04 +0000

I'll ignore the name calling and condescension and try to explain a couple things for you…
When a bike is on the street it has just as much right to be there as a car. When a car is going slow in front of you, you need to slow down, wait for a safe opportunity to pass and then do so. Why so much bile just because it's a bike?
The reason that a lot of cyclists will ride in the middle of the lane is that it's actually a lot safer for them. If you ride hugging the edge every 6,000 lb SUV will whip past you whether there is safe passing room or not, and you will have no way to avoid any road hazards without getting tangled with said SUV. Riding in the middle of the lane forces you the SUV driver to wait for an appropriately safe passing opportunity. Perfectly legal and the recommended method in the drivers manual.
Riding a bike is not a battle against pedestrians or vehicles. It is transportation and for some it's also exercise and recreation.
A sense of entitlement can manifest itself by assuming royal titles, declaring oneself to be more important than others despite the facts of law, and then to threaten harm with no remorse because you are more powerful than them.

By: queenofballard

queenofballard — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:36:31 +0000

I'm sorry that you don't read well SPG, but I didn't threaten anyone. I pointed out who is likely to win in an accident between a large heavy vehicle and a small bike that has a complete lack of regard for the rules of the road, which is the case with MOST bikers. Expecting to win a battle of this magnitude reveals your sense of entitlement (not mine) and lack of common sense. Oh, and ridiculous arrogance too. Read slower, maybe you'll understand the words next time.

By: SPG

SPG — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:00:07 +0000

This is a joke right? Nobody is psychotic enough to publicly threaten killing someone with their car in a public forum with a traceable ID. Not only that, but you do realize that it is perfectly legal to ride a bike on any street other than an interstate highway?
Your title very well encompasses your sense of entitlement, but you should have your license revoked. Permanently.

By: motorrad

motorrad — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:10:23 +0000

Ernie, you are celebrating prejudice and exclusion. Your words are written here for everyone to see. SPG and everyone else paying attention read your statements. SPG even called you on it. You are prejudiced against anyone that isn't native, and it appears you really hate SoCal transplants. You said it. So we know what kind of person you are from YOUR own words. Take ownership of your statements and views. "Disparaging a bunch of people of people you know nothing about" seems to be your expertise.

As for my education on this matter, My research (yes I actually researched rather than just accepting what I read on the Interweb Forums) is accurate and appears to be the same facts that SPG relays. If you don't like me or my delivery, fine, read SPG's posts and take them to heart. The fact that this keeps being painted as benefitting only bikers is ludicrous. As a driver that travels Shilshole regularly I want the bikes off the road and out of my way. Other drivers obviously feel the same way. Taking traffic lanes, as an alternative like on 24th, to convert to bike lanes is objectionable to many who post here.

My research shows that there are a couple parties, B.O. and SBS$G, responsible for obstructing the path, the Chamber has joined them. Those Sir are the FACTS. And that you are prejudiced against non-native residents.

By: queenofballard

queenofballard — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:50:30 +0000

Last evening during peak traffic on Ballard Ave, I had to swerve to avoid two bikers meandering down the one-way street, the wrong way.
Daily, I have near misses with bikers on the Fremont bridge and Westlake Ave, where they ride even though the bike lane is Dexter. They hold up traffic and won't get out of the way.
Bikers ride on streets when they want, then on sidewalks when they want, the norm is to pay no attention to any traffic laws.
Working downtown for 10 years, I can't count the number of times sidewalk bikers hit me, twice knocking me down.
Bikers want benefits, but not accountability. NOT following laws is the NORM, not the exception with this crowd. You deserve nothing. Streets were made for cars, sidewalks for pedestrians. Go ride in the mountains. Your own stupidity and arrogance will do you in.
When the day comes that you tangle with my 6000 lb SUV, I'm going to win and then I'm going to bill you (or your estate) for the little scratches that your mangled bike makes on my car.

By: Jules2

Jules2 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:01:33 +0000

Sorry if this is long. Long long ago in the late 1970s and early 1980's, rafters and kayakers were not welcome in Leavenworth, WA. We had no public access to the river, and were basically treated like Hell's Angels. Well, we worked with the community to show that it was in THEIR best self-interest to welcome kayakers and rafters. To that end, a new public raft launch was built with the help of the community and the Chamber of Commerce of Leavenworth. Same thing happened in Cashmere. We showed the COMMUNITY that we spent money in their establishments, and could be good neighbors.
Fast forward to the 1990s. Because of some behavior on the part of a small number of kayakers and rafters, we LOST the put-in access on the Wenatchee River at Peshastin. (compalints were urinating in public, public nudity, drinking, driving fast in a residential community, etc.) The Washington Kayak Club worked with the community and the Chamber of Commerce to put in (and pay for)Porta-Potties, a "modesty screen", and had volunteers from the Kayak Club montior the behavior of the kayakers and rafters every single weekend day that the river was running. Upshot? We got our access back. We are more than welcome in Leavenworth, Peshastin and Cashmere today; in fact there is a brand new river center/parking lot/changing rooms at Cashmere.

I've also worked to get better access on the Skykomish, and the WA Kayak Club pays for access on the Green River. We have found, over the years, that working with the community, not against them, pays off.

I see a parallel with the Cascade Bicycle Club. (doug wanted to know what river; here it is.) BTW, I was the President of the Washington Kayak Club when this went down, and I was one of the founders and chairs of SkyFest, which raised a whole lot of money for American Whitewater to get better river access on the Sky and the Snoqualmie. We worked with, not against, the people and business in Index as well.

What would I do differently? Since you asked, I would not be alienating the people and the businesses of Ballard by this childish posturing and threatening to boycott SeafoodFest, Businesses, endless ranting posts, etc.

Want community support? Go out and get a sponsor and give every kid in Ballard a free bike helmet. You keep talking about the "high-tech money" in Ballard and the supposed good it has done this community. I have seen no hard evidence of this...if you'all have so much money, whih not buy every kid in Ballard a new bike- THEN Ballardites would have a vested interest in supporting a bike trail.

By: SweetRose

SweetRose — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 06:45:35 +0000

Well they have proven very successful in Europe and in other US cities. I suppose Seattlites are different?

Those experts and professionals….. are they the same folks we can thank for the good snow response we had this last winter maybe? Are they experts hired by The Idiot Mayor who rides a limo from West Seattle and then gets on a bike for a block to arrive at his office?

By: SPG

SPG — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 05:57:54 +0000

I do like a good street fair, and one that has a quasi seafood theme is fine by me. I'm glad they do it, but I'm still not going this year.
I'm beginning to wonder if they're doing that much good for the community outside of the streetfair as they've been on the wrong side of issues before like the Ballard skatepark, even going so far as to claim to have businesses on their side that clearly weren't. The purpose of a chamber of commerce is to be a voice for ALL the businesses, not just a clique of their friends. How many businesses support the trail vs those opposed? How many of those opposed even want to go so far as to file this obstructionist lawsuit? This has been divisive and has pissed off enough of us customers and business owners that I don't really see how this is benefitting anyone besides sBS&g, and even they know that they're going to lose and that a trail is inevitable. Meanwhile they've lost me as a customer, not that I was their biggest, but I did business with them fairly regularly and now I'm looking for other suppliers. Look around on any of the stories this week and you'll see a few cranks who are now railing against all business in Ballard, and for what?
All the retail and restaurants will benefit from a trail as more people on bikes and strolling the trail will come in from Fremont, so I doubt they're up in arms over this trail, leaving the CoC hurting more of its members by fighting this trail.

By: Jules2

Jules2 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 05:45:06 +0000

Yeah, it would suprise me. I'd love to see the #'s of dollars and manhours any tech company has spent IN Ballard. Really, I'd love to hear about it.

The only thing tech companies have done for Ballard is to drive up the price of real estate, create a two-tiered economy, and cost all taxpayers more $$ in replacing the bridges to the Eastside.

By: Jules2

Jules2 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 05:39:25 +0000

That would be the Ballard EAGLES La Senoritas drill team. This is their big fundraiser for the year.

By: dmcmanus

dmcmanus — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 04:07:05 +0000

Like I said the greater good of what the Chamber does for the community as a whole will prevail over what side they take on a bike trail that affects a very small portion of the community (it might affect you but lets face it the vast majority of the community probably doesn't even realize that their is even an issue on this or don't even care one way or the other, and if you think that they do your kidding yourself ).

By: SPG

SPG — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:57:43 +0000

Like I've said before, I wouldn't call what I'm doing a boycott, but rather just a lack of enthusiasm for it after what the Coc has signed onto. I won't be going because I wouldn't feel right attending, just like you don't go to your friend's BBQ while you're in the middle of a fight with them.
They may not care that I'm not there, but maybe they should think about what a negative impact this has on a lot of us. I don't think I'll sign my business up with them as it doesn't seem that they are very cognizant of how their actions impact the greater community.

By: SPG

SPG — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:53:13 +0000

The experts and professionals have studied this and there is a lot more to it than just plunking down a trail where you want on a map. Shilshole is clearly the best route as it has few intersections, less traffic, and is more in line with the trail that already exists on either end. Leary can't spare the lane and wouldn't be safe, but we've discussed that on the other thread.
I loves me a good pedestrian mall, but I don't think that would solve this problem or even be very beneficial for the businesses on Ballard Ave. Have you ever tried to ride a bike through a crowd of people walking around a plaza? Talk about accident waiting to happen.

By: SPG

SPG — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:46:55 +0000

Chopper: "I don't want to piss off SPG, ever.
And tho I've been called worse, I'll take the obstructionist stance w/out hesitation."

Don't worry about pissing me off, I can dish it, I can take it. Speak your mind, but you don't need me to tell you to do that!
The obstructionist name implies obstructing for the sake of obstructing, as in you pled your case and the facts were presented and it has been decided against you, but you won't accept it so you obstruct anyway.
I don't think that there are other viable options that balance the greater good against the needs and obligations of the minority. sBS&g, BO, and the toy railroad have been taking advantage of the public right of way for so long that they've taken it for granted as their property. It's not and never was. It's just like if I get used to parking in front of my house every day and then someone else gets there before me. It doesn't mean that I can have them towed away just because I've gotten used to being able to park there.

By: dmcmanus

dmcmanus — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:44:28 +0000

70,000 people are expected at Seafood Festival. If a few people don't make it that's their perogative. A few people are trying to “boycott” the Chamber and the business's that are involved with the Chamber, again that is their right. I don't think the Chamber is staying up at night worrying about them. The Chamber knows the work they do to promote the community, the business's and family's means a lot more to Ballard then what side they take on a bike trail.

The Seafood Festival will live on like it has for 35 years and the independant (does not recieve any federal grant money) Ballard Chamber of Commerce will continue on supporting businesses, the community, and family's like it has for over 80 years regardless of what a few posters on a website say.

By: SweetRose

SweetRose — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:35:59 +0000

Gee that’s what we have been saying all along. No one is against a bike path. Shilshole is a terrible place to put a bike path. My guess is the city likes it only because they perceive it might be cheaper. I will go a step further and say make Ballard all the way to Market a no car street and connect at the intersection. There would be less parking lost. I would also make Market between 20th and 24th two lanes with a bus lane in the middle and a raised median to stand on while waiting for a bus. Most European cities have many similar areas that are no car and they are full of bars and restaurants that have found business improves. This would also eliminate the mess we often see at Market and 20th.

By: Ernie_98107

Ernie_98107 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:49:51 +0000

SPG, I'm not celebrating laziness, I'm celebrating knowing what the f**k you're talking about which motorad clearly doesn't.

This bike trail thing has been going on for years and is SO much more than "Ballard Oil vs. Bikes" and however long you have lived here if you're going to show your "passion" for the neighborhood by disparaging a bunch of people you don't know anything about, it makes you sound new.

I'm just saying that some people (not SPG) should educate themselves on the issues before spouting off.

By: motorrad

motorrad — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:37:15 +0000

Chopper Has FOUND the answer!!! A separate bike path on Leary. Hmmm. From Fred Meyer to Market on Leary. Then I guess down Market to connect with the existing path by the Locks on the separate bike path. Because Ballard Oil dictates that they reserve sole use of the public road in front of them so have to use Market. I really never thought that taking a lane from Leary and Market was possible. Much better for bike commuters. Thanks chopper. Oh, but doesn't that erase lots of parking spots? It will certainly cause backups for cars being cut down by at least 1 lane at certain hours of the day. Maybe the bike advocates and CCBC should look at Chopper's most excellent and simple solution. Last night I rode the 'missing link' past SBS$G and B.O., it IS kinda crappy. There were a couple other bikers but LOTS of joggers. So taking space from Leary and Market would be awesome. Industry gets to keep using public land for their private use and it is business as usual for them. Bikers get to check out the Patio scene while riding Leary and Market, and the great long time residents of Ballard are revered as martyrs for giving up a traffic lane or two. I am sure the Chamber will throw a bigger festival to reward you all.

By: chopper_74

chopper_74 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:59:25 +0000

we go out as we got in…bald and in diapers ;-(
Then, we come back as a Jitterbug!

By: chopper_74

chopper_74 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:56:17 +0000

You shouldn't say "chopper is right"
but thanks.
I don't want to piss off SPG, ever.
And tho I've been called worse, I'll take the obstructionist stance w/out hesitation.
I have yet to see a clear route that make sense.
Shilshole has too many issues to make a good path, sorry.
I'd put up Leary as the best route through, because it works, it has no tracks, and it has no adversity. YEAH, I know it seems too simple, sorry that's my capacity.

By: SPG

SPG — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:44:31 +0000

whoa, did my comment just get erased? It was an obvious joke and sarcastically skewered both sides of Ballard, so hopefully nobody took offense to it. Sorry if someone did…I guess even pretending to be a real jerk can get you deleted.

By: SPG

SPG — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:41:14 +0000

It's kind of silly to equate being born in a neighborhood with having more passion for it. In a sense, it's actually just laziness that you're celebrating. You might know more people because you've been here longer, but you never had to weigh the options, choose to live there, and then make the effort to move there severing your ties and stepping out of your comfort zone. It's one of the reasons that I can't hate immigrants, think of what it takes to vote with your feet and all that entails.

By: doug11

doug11 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:37:59 +0000

Well yeah. I support the appeals I support, and I think the appeals I don't support are a waste of tax money.

I never questioned anyone's right to appeal.

Sorry if that's too complicated for you.

By: SPG

SPG — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:35:13 +0000

There's a difference between appealing a decision and being obstructionist. This is clearly a case of the latter which is why so many people are getting pissed off.
The opposition to the trail seems to be coming from two groups of people, first the businesses that think they will be negatively impacted and second are the people who just don't like bikes and cyclists. The businesses have their interest which is taking advantage of free use of the public right of way for their trucks and their toy train. That's too bad that they'll have to adjust a bit, but it's far from as bad as they make it out to be. The businesses also don't want to have any loss of parking for their employees, also public right of way that they take advantage of. Between the railroad right of way and the trucks using the right of way, this business has essentially been subsidized by the public.
The bike haters are just having fun going “nya nya!” to the rest of us who think having a safe alternative to wrecking on poorly conceived rr tracks and dodging cars is a good idea.

By: doug11

doug11 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:32:21 +0000

Do some research and compare charitable time and donations of the Ballard industrial companies vs. the tech sector - Amazon, Real, Microsoft, etc.

The results will surprise you. Do it on a per-employee bases. Exclude employer matching if you want.

Then come back with numbers or shut the f--- up.

Like it or not, we are the front lines of Seattle's standing in a global economy now. We're trying hard to keep this city prosperous and livable.

We don't appreciate being called "ingrates." I criticize the owners of your companies and their lawyers, but never the workers or drivers.

By: chopper_74

chopper_74 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:27:02 +0000

chased yer tail lately?…yep.

By: motorrad

motorrad — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:01:17 +0000

Wow Ernie! Is this a crush on him? I make a point to not write anything I wouldn't say to someone's face. Seriously. He is just a guy. Who is wrong. And I won't have a problem telling him that. However I won't waste time trying to convince him to change his mind. He is a selfish uncompromising man. My time and efforts are better spent pushing this forward in other ways. But I would tell him he is wrong. Where I am from, it isn't a big deal to tell someone-face to face, that you disagree with them. I can only surmise from your words that you are afraid of that sort of interaction.

What is it about this town that you don't deserve a voice unless you were born here. That one's rights are pro rated according to how long you have lived here. NOT the way it works. Personally I enjoy meeting people that are different than I am, of different experiences. I don't look down on them because of where they are from or that they decided to relocate more than 25 miles from where they were raised. And how is it that so many people are arguing 3 sides of an issue? It boggles my mind how you can defend B.O.'s behavior. Flout your pretentiously judgmental attitude. It is not becoming.