Today is April 18th – tax day for 2011. (We hope this isn’t news to anyone.)
Around noon today people gathered in front of the Bank of America branch at NW Market Street for a tax day rally. According to the moveon.org website, which organized the gathering, “At hundreds of events from coast to coast, we’ll present tax bills to corporate tax dodgers for the billions of dollars their legions of lobbyists helped them avoid. We’ll organize a peaceful, dignified, and powerful day of action to call on corporations to pay their fair share. And we’ll demand that our elected leaders make them pay.” The site states that in 2009, Bank of America paid $0 in taxes. (Photo courtesy Lina Raymond.)
Tax day rally on Market Street
Maybe Obama’s boot licker Jeffrey Immelt at GE could pay some taxes.
Actually we need to cut tax loop holes, remove all the Bush cuts (on the rich AND middle class), raise retirement age to 70, ration Medicare/aid and cut social services to balance the budget(s). But don’t let reality ruin a day in the sun yelling ‘hey hey, ho ho, blah dee blah has got to go”.
Um, I believe the tax day protests are a call for cutting tax loop holes so uh, that reality thing is perfectly understood. thanks!
But you can bet they don’t want cuts either; that’s the reality they ignore. Raising taxes alone won’t solve this problem.
This country is being destroyed by left wing and right wing crazies.
Well…according to the IRS about half the people in that photo who are griping paid no taxes at all. And of those that did, it is likely that most (if not all) took advantage of some sort of tax “loophole” that allowed them to reduce their overall tax burden.
In 2009, the top 10 percent of earners paid about 73% of all federal income tax collected.
The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax system, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.
But, of course, they aren’t protesting in front of the average family of four in Crown Hill…
I actually saw the protest occurring, and there were generalized signs for all people to pay their fair share of taxes, not just B of A. It was a pretty non-crazy protest, and there were no funny hats or puppets or anything. But judge away, judgey.
Were they calling for more or less government spending? If it was te latter, they are part of the problem.
Reasonable people know the only solution is ending the bush cuts (a lot of which went to the middle class) and cutting spending, especially for Social Security, medicare/aid and defense.
Believe me I support the message to eliminate corporate loopholes, but I wondered about how many of those people paid taxes, and how many of them voted in recent elections.
Also, I saw signs referring to foreclosures and such………I know the banks are predators by nature, but what ever happened to personal responsibility. Nobody made people take adjustable rate loans, or refinance their homes to pay for cars, credit card debt, and vacations.
I know this is the latest right wing talking point, and that you’re just repeating what you’ve been told to repeat, but you’ve been given misleading information. That only applies to federal income taxes. The poorest 40% still pay all the other taxes the rest of us do. Fees, licenses, gas taxes, food taxes, road taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, and on and on and on.
If you work at McDonalds making a poverty level wage, you still pay over 10% of your income on taxes. Profit my ass. You try living on less than $14k a year, then come back and tell us you still think the poor need to shoulder even more taxes. That they aren’t paying their fair share. That they’re living high on federal income tax refund “profits”.
Boohoo, the wealthiest people in the history of the human race pay a lot of taxes. Those richest 10% receive more income than the bottom 50% of the country combined. They also enjoy the best lifestyle in the history of the human race because of it. And on many taxes, there is a ceiling; Somebody earning $10 million pays the same social security taxes as somebody earning $106,800. Those poor abused rich people!
dang it! I wish I had known about this ahead of time …
I was quite clear about where the taxes are being collected (or not), and the information I provided is not at all misleading. I specifically referred to federal income taxes. Nowhere did I discuss or debate any other taxes, or engage in any class warfare arguments.
You also assert that I suggested the poor should shoulder a greater federal tax burden (I didn’t), that they aren’t paying their “fair share” (I didn’t) and that they are “living high” on tax profits (I didn’t say that either). I would respectfully invite you to actually read posts before commenting on them, and making personal attacks (I don’t simply repeat “what I’ve been told to repeat”)
By the way, you used the term “refund” – I didn’t. If one doesn’t actually pay federal taxes, and instead receives a cash grant from the federal government, it can’t accurately be called a “refund”.
Again, I simply pointed out that a significant number of the people protesting here are likely not paying anything in federal income taxes, and in fact may be getting a taxpayer funded federal cash grant at tax time. They target corporations because it is an easy media stunt. But they could just as well be protesting the fact the majority of individual wage earners are the recipients of “loopholes” allowing them to either pay nothing in federal income tax or receive grants of cash from the federal treasury.
What you omit, and what you imply, is just as important as the literal words you present. Ignoring all of your other attempts to deflect and change the subject…
The only “stunt” is making billions in income, and not paying on that income. Being poor is not a loophole.
I made no attempt to deflect anything. And suggesting I omitted discussion of consumption taxes, local and state taxes and fees, wealth distribution equity, etc. is akin to accusing me of omitting discussion of what I had for breakfast. It simply wasn’t relevant.
The issue being discussed was/is the federal income tax system. The protesters seem to be suggesting that BofA is unfairly taking advantage of federal tax loopholes in order to reduce its tax burden. I simply pointed out that most of those in attendance at the “rally” are in all probability doing the exact same thing.
You brought up non-federal taxes and fees, and started in with the class warfare arguments. And then took a shot at my integrity in the process.
I certainly did not change the subject – you did.
Reasonable people also know that won’t solve the problem either. The deficit in 2010 was $1.3T. That is about 1/3 of the budget, I don’t think anyone is going to cut spending that much. They had a tough time with $38B.
SeaYar – how do you have any idea what the people you see protesting pay in taxes? You have no way of validating your argument. What BoA and GE don’t pay is documented. I don’t see what your argument is here.
Unless you want to disband the military you’re not really going to make much of a dent in the spending.
Between 45% and 50% of all workers in the United States pay no federal income tax at all. But you’re right – I can’t validate what each specific person in that crowd paid in federal income tax. So I’ll concede that it is (remotely) possible that the group gathered at this particular protest was not a representative example and perhaps most or all of them pay federal income tax – though I think that would be highly, highly improbable. I would suggest it is a safe bet that this group was reasonably representative of average American workers.
They also didn’t make 4 billion dollars in profit.
Well SeaYar (own a yacht, do you?), since you KEEP making the assertion that “half the people griping paid no taxes at all” I feel the need to set you straight. I was one of those protesting Bank of America’s $0 tax payment, and I PAID my $365 tax liability on the $12,400 unemployment compensation I collected in 2010, even though I couldn’t afford it. I honestly don’t understand HOW you can justify making those accusations against modest or low income workers while coming to the DEFENSE of big corporations NOT paying their fair share (BofA has not just “reduced its tax burden”, its ELIMINATED it), unless you are (as I suspect) one of those corporate execs that make over $500K a year. For some corporation taking in $4 billion a year, $3 million in taxes is NOT unreasonable. For someone making only $24K a year, $1K in taxes IS… and THAT’S why we aren’t “protesting in front of the home of an average family of four “.
Why the attack on SeaYar? Heshe merely gave some balance to this thread. I read what was posted, but others made assertions and attributed to the post. This is another small sign of the recklessness individuals have displayed with their personal finances that have hurt this country. I know many people are hurt and that big corporations have profited in some cases, but as individuals we need to be smarter and look in the mirror before blaming others and disparaging others out of anger and jealousy.
Don’t own a yacht, and make a modest income supporting a family of four. I’m certainly not poor, but neither am I wealthy. And I am nowhere even close to making over $500k per year. I am fortunate to have a job – though I was unemployed for nearly six months within the past couple of years. I get by, paycheck to paycheck, like most people.
And I’m not coming to the defense of big corporations – I’m pretty sure they can defend themselves well enough without my help. Just pointing out the likely hypocrisy in these types of protests. Complaining that corporations that follow the law with regard to tax filing, and leverage the elements of the code that limit what they pay is exactly what most everyone does – including the people who were protesting. Do you or any of the other people in that protest not take the deductions and exemptions you are entitled to under the law, and instead pay the full amount of tax that would be owed without those deductions? I suspect not.
Since you brought up your situation, I’m not an accountant, but I find it difficult to believe that someone with only $12k in annual gross income has a net federal tax liability. I suppose there may be some very strange situation in play that would cause you to have to pay federal income tax, but there are many mechanisms that would kick under the tax code that would likely eliminate your federal tax liability – particularly if you in any way support a family. The EITC (Earned Income Tax Credit) for example, does not phase out for individuals until $13,449. I can only imagine you had significant additional income that may have contributed to your tax liability.
Or perhaps you simply “walked the talk” and did not take advantage of your available deductions and exemptions. If so, good for you.
Why the attack on SeaYar? Like I stated in my post, his/her repetitive assertion that ‘half those (protesters) griping paid no taxes at all’… a notion I had noticed YOU also posted previously. So I, being one of the tax-paying, voting protesters ask you, Why SeaYar and your attacks on ME? I’m for ALL Americans paying their FAIR SHARE!
Apparently, BofA paid no federal income taxes in 2009 because it actually lost money overall for common shareholders in 2009 once paying back the federal bailout money (TARP) was taken into account. It did pay federal income tax in 2010 (about $900 million).
BofA also didn’t make 4 billion dollars in profit in 2009, after taking account of the payback of federal bailout money (TARP); they lost money for the common stockholders.
No dependents, so EIC not applicable. Still had job (briefly) in 2010, earned $2400 gross (not significant income), FIT withheld. Don’t itemize; never cared to. Filed 1040EZ, took standard single filer deduction of $9350 against $14700 AGI=$5400 taxable income=$543 tax due. Less FIT withheld=$365 tax owed and PAID.
I’ve never had a problem with, nor complained about paying taxes in my life (I’m 60). Our country and our government can’t run on NOTHING. I just have a problem with other people complaining about(or more importantly, not paying) THEIR taxes. And I agree, it’s our government LETTING corporations and the wealthy off the hook with the current tax codes, but a grateful and patriotic person should be willing to pay their fair share for living and working in this country. I may be naive, but I believe most working class people feel the same. Unfortunately we’ll always have people trying to hold onto all the money they have, and for this reason we need government to stand up for the middle class.
In the end, I’d like to think I was protesting corporate greed not only for me, but also for you, in the financial support of your family of four on a modest income.
Well, that’s only 20% of the budget (and less than the peak in the 1980s). Yes, military needs to take a cut as well but so do SS, medicare and medicaid. Unless entitlements are cut, we’ll never get out of this mess.
BTW being a super power does mean we need a military, unless you think we should stick flowers in rifles when ever there’s a problem.
I would like to say…..don’t flatter yourself so much by thinking we were attacking you. Secondly, I would like to think people on here are well read enough to know some of the standard statistics that we were referring to……if you choose to not itemize when it could be in your favor, that speaks to your level of effort, not to your willingness to pay more in taxes. I have my lax moments too, but not with my money.
You do know that we spend more on the military than the next thirty countries COMBINED.
Social Security is still running a surplus and has been for decades. The government has been taking that money to spend on other things rather than putting it away for your retirement. Even so, a simple raising of the salary cap on contributors would put more than enough money in to the system to cover even the worst case scenarios.
Medicaire? Well, that could have been fixed entirely if we went to a single payer healthcare system back in the early 90’s, but that would have been communism or something so here we are…
There’s a big difference between stock price and profits. Corporations are not taxed on their stock price, but on their income (or at least supposed to be taxed.)
BofA made $4.4 billion in profit and received $1.9billion as a tax refund on top of not paying anything.
Exxon Mobil made a profit of $19,000,000,000. That’s 19 Billion dollars. The government gave them another $156,000,000 and they still paid NO federal tax.
GE: $26billion profit, got $4.1billion from the govt.
It goes on and on with Chevron, Boeing, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Conoco, Valero, who wind up paying no tax, almost no tax, or even getting more back than what they paid the year before. All of these companies have gotten bailouts and subsidies, have become hugely profitable and pay no tax.
For every company that pays no tax there still needs to be someone else to make up for it. That means us. Every tax break for the rich is a tax increase for us.
…and got a $1.9billion refund on that!
I wondered how many of those people protesting got a $1 trillion dollar bailout from the government like BofA or a $156 million dollar subsidy in the same year that they were earning $19 billion dollars by gouging their customers like Exxon.
1% of America owns 35% of it.
The next 10% own 38% leaving 27% for the other 90% of us.
The top 1% has seen their real income grow 400% in the last 30 years while everyone else’s has remained essentially flat.
The issue isn’t that they are taking deductions, it’s that they have gamed the system to pay NO taxes. They reap the benefits of this country and all the services that are provided from protecting their business to educating their workforce, yet they have no problem actively lobbying to maximize their profit at the expense of the system that supports it.
Problem with the American democracy is too many people are given ridiculous opinions by a tightly controlled media. Example: When u cut taxes the money does not go into the economy but is syphoned off . When taxes are high money goes into investments that the government wants: this creates jobs. The more u cut taxes the less control the government has on the economy and the more the rich syphon off capital and make it unproductive.This is real basic and obvious
Another example: the longer the election, the greater the ability for capital to control the outcome. In a democracy electioneering is short and government financed. In america u have a whore for hire system. Imagine haveing republican or democratic judges. What nonsense
I think we need to also look at what our state does, because I would have suggested that a protest at Boeing might be more accurate. Washington allows 1,266 corporations to NOT pay $236 million in B and O taxes, then tries to do an all cuts budget. This makes no sense. Boeing got reduced tax rates to support development of the Boeing 787 ($208 million), while Safeco field got $2.5 million in tax exemptions, and Microsoft paid no taxes on royalties for their products.
Meanwhile the state raised the B and O tax on small businesses.
Our state is penny wise and pound foolish. If you don’t like it, talk to the Governor’s office.
So does the success of others make you resent your pathetic life even more? Curious, how does someone else’s success hurt you? What qualifies you to judge what someone else should own? This might be news to you but the reality is that there isn’t just a pile of money that gets passed around. Economies grow (unless there headed by Obama that is) and incomes grow accordingly. In order to get more you have to participate. That means more then complaining on a Blog. Just sayin Buckwheat.
Dude, sorry to burst your bubble but all earned money gets invested, unless it’s stuffed in a mattress. Money in the bank, money in property, stocks, bonds, all gets used and grows because it’s invested. Government just wastes it in their usual bloated and inefficient manner. If you want money invested, earn some and invest it. Pretty simple big guy. Let me guess, you’re a Government lackey aren’t you?
Single payer? I see you live in the realm of the politically impossible rather than actually finding solutions.
That does tick you off, I understand!!! Figuring on the way things like this work, I moved a fair amount of my retirement stock to Exxon to ease that anger.
Waprog2 wrote:
“I think we need to also look at what our state does, because I would have suggested that a protest at Boeing might be more accurate. Washington allows 1,266 corporations to NOT pay $236 million in B and O taxes, then tries to do an all cuts budget. This makes no sense. Boeing got reduced tax rates to support development of the Boeing 787 ($208 million), while Safeco field got $2.5 million in tax exemptions, and Microsoft paid no taxes on royalties for their products.
Meanwhile the state raised the B and O tax on small businesses.
Our state is penny wise and pound foolish. If you don’t like it, talk to the Governor’s office. ”
REALLY???? So your suggestion regarding to Boeing is let them go to another state that actually wants them in their state and have tens of thousands of working citizens lose their jobs????? I know people get bent out of shape about tax breaks to companies like Boeing, but in the end it is a worthy investment that our state has made. Those people with jobs spend their income which in turn is taxed, etc…….but if you had your way Boeing would likely move more of their production out of state and all of those jobs and revenues would be lost……….THAT, Waprog2 is the definition of short sighted.
I just wish people would quit letting their envious impulses get in the way of reason!
I wasn’t talking about stock price, SPG. BofA made the $4.4 billion plus the $1.9 billion tax credit, THEN had to pay over $8 billion of BofA money to the feds as part of the TARP repayment (which essentially acted like preferred stock, meaning its holders got paid dividends whether BofA made or lost money).
Thus, for the common stockholders of BofA (i.e. everyone but the feds), BofA LOST over $2 billion post-TARP.
errr, no $1.9 billion refund in 2010, and the $1.9 billion in 2009 was before the TARP repayment, so net loss in 2009 was over $2 billion.
Sure, BofA management tried to make the disaster they caused look better by emphasizing the 2009 results pre-TARP-repayment, just like they tried to emphasize how much money they would have made in 2010 if only they didn’t have to account for all those pesky billions of bad loans. Standard obfuscation.
SPG, remember that the top 1% (by whatever measure you use) are NOT the same people who were the top 1% 10 years ago, 20 years ago, or 30 years ago. Thus, since there are different people in the groups, it’s a bit meaningless to try to talk about income comparisons between the groups over time.
Makes me imagine a “U Cut Taxes” shop advertising on late-night TV :)
Kim – I take it you don’ t belong to any of the groups that you mentioned in your post.
By the way, I live in Maple Leaf but have always found the My Ballard blog to be way more entertaining than my own neighborhood blog. The other day I saw a bumper sticker that stated: “Welcome to Ballard my new condo overlords”. You guys rock. I often what is in the water you drink but you guys rock none the less.
Well, SPG, I am by no means in that top 1% but I have worked my butt off to have not remain “essentially flat.” I have an ex-wife that walked away with a business which I had to pay off for her where she easily could make 80K a year, and well over 100K in cash. She sold the biz, and in 5 yrs has accumulated debt over 70K. She can’t even make her token child support payment to me. My point is, people like her are everywhere and their lack of impulse control creates the credit debts that we all pay for with higher bank fees, etc. While people bitch at the injustice of it all with large corporations, I get irked at people who run up debt and declare bankruptcy for me to contribute to paying for……..Ron White has it right, “You can’t fix stupid!”
If I had known, I’d been there. Back in the good (or not so good) old days, when Ballard was a working class town, when there was a steel mill, a plywood plant, a fishing fleet, machine shops, and chandlers etc., people, just about everyone you met on the street, or in a coffee shop, or a tavern, or anywhere really knew the score. Those guys, well, men and women, took the side of working people and didn’t defend welfare for the rich. They knew that rich people would survive without welfare and didn’t need any of our largess; and everone, was on the same wave length. Now, oddly, it’s the other way around as many of the comments indicate serious concern for the welfare and security of America’s wealthiest citizens and their stashes?! w.t.f.!?
Ahh, yes, back in the good old days with those Ballard covenants that kept it so nice and white.
Ahh, yes, back in the good old days with those Ballard covenants that kept it so nice and white.
Don’t know the history of Ballard covenants. I first came to Seattle in 1967, but did not get to Ballard ’till ’71. I found the poeple in Seattle to be more decent and less predjudiced than people in the San Diego area, where I was from. People in the Northwest cities (Seattle, Portland, Tacoma, Vancouver B.C.) I visited back then where much more considerate and mature than the people I was used to in SoCal. I recall hearing Norwegian accents in Ballard and going in one tavern on Ballard Ave. where a couple of men were smoking pipes, and one guy was playing the accordian! I was so impressed by the differences here when I first got here, that I wrote home about them. Those are the good (or not so good) old days I was refering too. I do not want to roll back the clock, can’t anyway. Many things have changed for the better. I see, though that some attitudes and behavior are worse than what I saw then. People are ruder, less trusting, less considerate, and a lot more up tight. Tell me about the Ballard covennants.
Boeing asked for their $32 billion tax break AFTER they sent 50,000 jobs to China. They sent jobs to Chicago and South Carolina after they got those tax breaks. Yet, we over-tax the startups and small businesses that could, if allowed to, grow into companies employing many Washingtonians. We cut off our own futures. We also do that when we refuse to fully fund education. If they use our services, they should pay. Otherwise we could lose everything.