http://www.myballard.com/forum/ A forum for the Seattle neighborhood of Ballard en Mon, 20 May 2013 00:40:56 +0000 http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126301 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 05:27:38 +0000 Jonathan Pryce 126301@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Just a general reflection on this transportation related thread, and on the legion of similar discussions on myballard: It's interesting how the issues on gettin' from A to B seem to elicit the most, er, ah, shall we say, passionate responses from folks. </p> <p>[SATIRE ALERT!]</p> <p>Common themes, my biased take, tongue firmly, yet polemically, in cheek, (whew, almost ran out of commas there):</p> <p>Bikes vs. cars.</p> <p>Bikes don't pay no road taxes.</p> <p>The bus is for suckas and the service sucks and, well, it all just sucks. Really. Sometimes you even have to sit next to an eastsider, like, someone from Phinney Ridge or Green Lake or, worse, someone who just moved to Ballard less than a year ago.</p> <p>Those satanic SUVs . . . those rows of little silhouettes of grandmas and strollers on the driver's side door tell the true tale.</p> <p>Potholes are sucking the very lifeforce out of me.</p> <p>Pinko Mayor McFrommage is out to social engineer this city into a buncha sprout eatin', bike ridin' zombies.</p> <p>Pedestrian zones?! What's next, a takeover by the Soviet Socialist Republic of the EU?</p> <p>[ALL CLEAR]</p> <p>Disclaimer: OK, it was funny for me. If anyone else found it amusing, to paraphrase military parlance, I guess that's just collateral humor. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126279 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 04:42:26 +0000 allisonw 126279@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>No one has suggested driving inattentively or mowing down neighbors, or threatening to do so either....except you, Nose Picker.<br /> My observations of pedestrians at that intersection, specifically peds crossing westbound across Leary as I am attempting to make a right turn to southbound Leary from eastbound Market is that peds expect vehicles to not enter the intersection if they are ANYWHERE in the crosswalk, not just in the adjacent lane. I always duck into the westernmost southbound lane too, to acknowledge I see the pedestrians and am not going to mow them over. I do not dilly-dally either, as I know that intersection's problematic for everyone. What's a below-average Seattle driver to do? *wink* </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126274 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 04:28:51 +0000 cdpenne 126274@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Spurious:<br /> 1.Not being what it purports to be; false or fake<br /> separating authentic and spurious claims<br /> 2.(of a line of reasoning) Apparently but not actually valid<br /> <strong>this spurious reasoning results in nonsense</strong></p> <p>As in "we have very poor native drivers lulled into a belief that they are actually very good drivers because they never get pulled over and ticketed for their daily shenanigans like plowing through crosswalks"</p> <p>And "Mowing down your neighbors to save a few seconds sounds like a good idea to you."</p> <p>I don't remember flowers... but I'm "okay" with you. Always have been. I enjoy a little banter even if it is spurious. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126263 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 04:16:20 +0000 racerX 126263@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>SPG, moot point? Maybe, but I don't see any mention of a stop sign or a red light. </p> <blockquote><p> RCW 46.61.235</p> <p> Crosswalks.</p> <p> (1) The operator of an approaching vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian or bicycle to cross the roadway within an unmarked or marked crosswalk when the pedestrian or bicycle is upon or within one lane of the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning. For purposes of this section "half of the roadway" means all traffic lanes carrying traffic in one direction of travel, and includes the entire width of a one-way roadway.</p> <p> (2) No pedestrian or bicycle shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or otherwise move into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop.</p> <p> (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply under the conditions stated in RCW 46.61.240(2).</p> <p> (4) Whenever any vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian or bicycle to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass such stopped vehicle. </p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://www.cityofseattle.net/transportation/pedrcw.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.cityofseattle.net/transportation/pedrcw.htm</a></p> <p>I think allisonw made a good point a few posts back: "we can all get through the intersection if peds and cars can cooperate". I'd add: if we all paid attention to our surroundings.</p> <p>FWIW, I travel that intersection weekly (walking or driving) and never have a problem. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126180 Thu, 06 Jan 2011 00:42:27 +0000 eric 126180@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>i drive through that intersection at 7am-ish and 4-4:30pm-ish several days a week. i really don't see what the big deal is. it is totally possible to avoid the intersection also. its not much to ask for some safety and civility on the streets and in crosswalks in particular, where peds are vulnerable. whats to argue here? and namecalling? sheesh. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126110 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 22:33:38 +0000 SPG 126110@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>cdpentupanger, I got a good laugh from your comment while reading it standing in the middle of the crosswalk with a dozen cars backed up waiting. Good stuff. I can see why your blog is so popular. Aaaanyway...do you think it's a good idea to zip through the intersections within inches of people trying to cross it? Mowing down your neighbors to save a few seconds sounds like a good idea to you, or are you still angry at me from something else? I thought you were okay with me after I sent the flowers?</p> <p>Ernie, Yes. You got the point. Fun with statistics, but seriously about 95% of drivers believe that they are above average.</p> <p>racerx, ftw? Seriously? Why not just make a bunch of threads and start each one with "first!"<br /> It is a little ironic that someone who takes the screen name of racerx would quote traffic law, but the point about stepping out into traffic is moot if there is a stop sign or a red light as the vehicle must stop anyway.</p> <p>To the greater point of pedestrians and drivers cooperating at intersections, yeah, that would be nice, but don't expect Grandma to leap out of your way because you want to zoom through a busy intersection. That person seeming to walk slow? How do you know they didn't just get off crutches and are moving as fast as they can? Not all of them, I'm sure, but some people can only move so fast and do you want to be the one intimidating the disabled? It is annoying to have to wait for someone to cross two seconds after the last person just got out of the way, but c'est la vie...at least you're sitting in a comfy warm car and not trying to get across the street in the rain. If you really want to complain about pedestrians, try to get through 65th and 15th going west when school lets out. The kids will cross against the signal and keep all traffic from moving if one car has to turn right. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126094 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 21:45:56 +0000 allisonw 126094@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>I think Leary needs to be included. My problem at that intersection is turning south on Leary from eastbound Market. There's a bus stop, and it's a 5 way. Moving the bus stop would also help. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126078 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 20:37:40 +0000 Dweezil 126078@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>One of the not-so-obvious benefits of the all-way stop is that an entire lane would not have to sit at a green light waiting on pedestrians so that one car can turn right. Just having such an intersection at 22nd and Market would be great. Covering Leary as well might be a stretch. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126076 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 20:24:32 +0000 Ernie 126076@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>SPG: "Third, I do color you and half the drivers as incompetent or at least below average."</p> <p>Now I don't know (and neither does SPG) which category AW is in, but if "immaculate" means no accidents, pedestrian or otherwise, she must be doing something right.</p> <p>As for the statement above, IMO far less than half of all drivers are actually incompetent, but it is certainly a mathematical fact that half of all drivers are below average :-) </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126071 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 19:27:57 +0000 mghart 126071@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>I wonder how an "all walk/allstop" intersection would work there? It seems like it would have to be an added cycle, since there are so many streets coming into that intersection. It works well at First and Pike, but there are only two lines of traffic coming into that intersection (northbound and southbound on First, since Pike is a one-way going east, and the entry to the market is also one way going west), whereas here there are six entering, if I count correctly (Market east and west, Leary north, 22nd north and south). Seems like adding an "all walk/allstop" cycle might just gum up traffic here.</p> <p>How about a longer pause after the red light comes on before the walk signal does? Just another second or two. I think the yellow cycle just doesn't last long enough for hurried drivers to get through the longest parts of that wide intersection. In some directions, if you start into the intersection on yellow, it's tough to make it all the way through before the light goes red and the walk signal lights. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126043 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 07:28:55 +0000 cloudblues 126043@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Me either, Cate. Used to commute through that intersection twice a day and never had pedestrian issues. Maybe just the directions I was going were ok? Hmm. Anyway, I'd love it if it was an "all walk/allstop" intersection, heading over to chime in on that! </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126032 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 06:20:30 +0000 Cate 126032@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Wow, this is getting nasty. Odd, I drive this intersection twice a day every day (Mon-Fri) and walk 2-3 times a day (Sat-Sun) and don't find it all that bothersome either by foot or by car. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126030 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 06:01:17 +0000 allisonw 126030@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Penne pasta, well said.</p> <p>If nose-picker is even allowed to drive, I bet he is one of those who is too stupid to pull out into the intersection when waiting to turn left. Same thickhead who holds faster traffic up in the left lane of the freeway, and doesn't do head checks before changing lanes.</p> <p>Just a guess, but I am not assuming he even knows how to drive a car. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126027 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 05:48:58 +0000 racerX 126027@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>cdpenne ftw! </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126026 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 05:47:46 +0000 racerX 126026@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <blockquote><p>we can all get through the intersection if peds and cars can cooperate</p></blockquote> <p>Hey, I think allisonw has a good point there. </p> <p>Also, if a car has already entered the intersection before a pedestrian or bicycle has left the curb, the pedestrian or bicycle shall not suddenly leave a curb. At least that is what I can tell (and I could be wrong) from reading the following: </p> <blockquote><p>RCW 46.61.235</p> <p>Crosswalks.</p> <p>(2) No pedestrian or bicycle shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or otherwise move into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop.</p></blockquote> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126023 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 05:41:12 +0000 cdpenne 126023@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Spuriuos Pugnacious Guy strikes again! That pretty much says it all. I bet you are one of those people who stands in the middle of the crosswalk picking your nose with your middle finger. No wait, you're one of those people who won't turn right for three cycles of the light becuase you no longer remember whether 3 seconds or 30 minutes has passed. But that makes you a "good" driver! If you were forced to listen to yourself screech you'd start babbling so much crap your tongue would have to be called Charmin. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-126008 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 04:36:04 +0000 SPG 126008@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>AllisonW screeched:"Well if having an immaculate driving record and a couple of decades of motorcycle riding (and the respect for the road that comes with that) then color me incompetent. SPG, way to talk out the side of your neck, again."</p> <p>First, since we have no enforcement an immaculate driving record is meaningless. You can drive like a nut and not get a ticket because nobody is getting tickets no matter how many laws they care to misinterpret.<br /> Second, you do not have "the respect for the road" because you admittedly don't bother to follow the laws just so you can push through crosswalks faster.<br /> Third, I do color you and half the drivers as incompetent or at least below average. A competent or above average driver has the self restraint to let people get through the crosswalk without having to zoom through. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-125978 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 03:01:20 +0000 Cate 125978@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Just wondering how much money Seattle makes off of our (in)famous Jaywalking tickets? </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-125973 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 02:48:44 +0000 Dweezil 125973@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>We live in a mostly democratic society where majority mostly rules. If you don't like jaywalking laws, make a petition, get it to a vote.</p> <p>Done and done. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-125955 Wed, 05 Jan 2011 00:50:28 +0000 Ballardissmallilikeanonymity 125955@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Jaywalking laws are stupid, no matter where you are. Unerring deference to them and heavy enforcement of them are both signs of an diseased urban ecology. Plus, as Ernie said, if you jaywalk in a way that remotely disrupts traffic (or gets you caught), you're doing it wrong! </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850&page=2#post-125946 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 23:16:28 +0000 Edog 125946@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>In Ballard, a car is often required to enter the crosswalk simply to see around the cars parked too close to the corner. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125943 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 23:09:36 +0000 great idea 125943@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>I usually don't walk around with a cup of coffee, but would maybe throw a piece of fruit at a car trying to hit me.</p> <p>depends of course if I'm playing my favorite human video game, which I no longer do in Clemson:</p> <p><a href="http://www.thesunnews.com/2010/12/29/1892464/cops-man-playing-real-life-frogger.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.thesunnews.com/2010/12/29/1892464/cops-man-playing-real-life-frogger.html</a> </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125941 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 23:05:31 +0000 Mondoman 125941@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>board, sometimes motorists don't seem to notice the crosswalk, and end up mostly blocking it. I find that stopping in front of their bumper, looking them in the eye, and smiling and waving at them a bit gets the message across in a positive way. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125936 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 22:46:58 +0000 boardbrown 125936@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Absolutely Mr. CP, very different indeed. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125934 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 22:42:30 +0000 Mr. Crankypants 125934@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>NB, I think bb meant that drivers in NYC will edge their cars slowly into the crosswalks full of pedestrians and nobody thinks twice about it. I'd say, however, there's a difference between "creeping" into a crosswalk and "zooming around" pedestrians in said crosswalk.</p> <p>And +1 for edog. I'm on my way to the dark side, please have my cookies ready. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125932 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 22:33:31 +0000 Nora Bell 125932@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>A protruding bumper means you're parked too close to the corner. A safety hazard for someone as short as I am who can't see over your car for oncoming moving ones.<br /> I won't key your car, or anything, but yes I'll be a little cheesed off. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125930 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 22:25:31 +0000 boardbrown 125930@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>I do agree there is a general mood of pedestrian superiority in Seattle streets. Crosswalkers are king here, and they will go out of their way to share their discontent if even a precious inch of their crosswalk is violated by an intruding bumper. In NYC cars creep into crowded crosswalks like Moses parting the Red Sea, and no one seems to even notice. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125928 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 22:18:48 +0000 RichY 125928@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>I love it some non-violent violence (cleanses the soul)</p> <p>1st it is against the law in Seattle to J-Walk, in fact we are famous for it, Google it.</p> <p>I do a lot of travel and old habits are hard to break.. So I am walking in Amsterdam and stop at an intersection (hate say red light ..) and a police offecor comes over and says, not ask,you are from Seattle, I gave the uneversal look of huh?, then he said that folks from Seattle are the only ones that will not cross against the light.</p> <p>As for driving us native Seattle folks are not in a hurry so we drive and walk in a safe manner for the area - not that we don't do stupid things now and then but, of course the example is snow - you can tell the native, we stay home or just check into a hotel and go home or work the next day when the snow is gone and those who know how to drive in the snow are off the road waiting in line at the repair shop.</p> <p>And lastly (in your dreams) if you do not like the area, the folks the commute, drivers, walkers, bikers, sailors, drinkers and our boisterous ways, why are you still here?</p> <p>Ok my meds are kicking in now </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125926 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 21:51:45 +0000 Edog 125926@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>As long as we are all feeling the hate and power of the dark side of the force, I want in on it too! I mean, with all this hate swelling in us now. Take your Coffee weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it. Show me the statutes that govern driving in Washington, let me show you how good I am, Drat, I mean evil. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant. Roarr roarr roooaarr.... Seattle drivers suck, ballard walkers suck, coffee is best when thrown at people who don't know their a*s from a hole in the ground, which must mean every one but me! Now witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational battle station! </p> <p>Roar Roar Roar Roar </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125924 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 21:25:39 +0000 allisonw 125924@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Well if having an immaculate driving record and a couple of decades of motorcycle riding (and the respect for the road that comes with that) then color me incompetent. SPG, way to talk out the side of your neck, again. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125917 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 20:36:01 +0000 Ernie 125917@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>"Seattle drivers are bad drivers and they are not expecting to see anyone in the street outside of a crosswalk and so the chances of them even seeing you, or knowing what to do when they do see you aren't that great. It's a risk I'm hesitant to take around here."</p> <p>Jaywalking, if you're doing it right, doesn't have anything to do with whether cars can see you or not, because you're supposed to do it when there are no cars within range of hitting you. If cars have to react to keep from hitting your than you're not jaywalking, you're darting into traffic.</p> <p>BTW how is making a generalization about all Seattle drivers any different than your pet peeve of Ballard natives generalizing all the newbies as condo-dwelling yuppies?</p> <p>PG, I laugh all the time (especially when reading MB) but thanks for thinking of me. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125915 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 20:10:42 +0000 pennygirl 125915@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>"I'm laughing at you right now."</p> <p>Everyone should try to laugh at least once in a while...glad I could help you out Ernie :-) </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125910 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:40:23 +0000 SPG 125910@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Ballardlongassnamethatdoesntfitproperly, I'm a big fan of jaywalking. IN OTHER CITIES. The reason is that Seattle isn't ready for it and can't handle it. Since there is no traffic enforcement whatsoever we have very poor native drivers lulled into a belief that they are actually very good drivers because they never get pulled over and ticketed for their daily shenanigans like plowing through crosswalks and going the wrong way around traffic circles. The 95% who think they're above average drivers then get the delusion that they know better than the law book how to get around and start interpreting the law themselves a la Alison's threats to run down pedestrians who have the right of way so she can get to her destination three seconds faster.<br /> Anywayyyyy.... Seattle drivers are bad drivers and they are not expecting to see anyone in the street outside of a crosswalk and so the chances of them even seeing you, or knowing what to do when they do see you aren't that great. It's a risk I'm hesitant to take around here. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125909 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:37:14 +0000 mghart 125909@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>One can often spot tourists and transplants in Seattle by their tendency to jaywalk. Seattleites and Canadians tend to cross with the light, in general. Of course, there are exceptions. The rest of us just roll our eyes in polite - albeit tardy - superiority. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125867 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:22:55 +0000 Ballardissmallilikeanonymity 125867@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Seriously, everyone...</p> <p>Once you get to know the pattern of the light cycle, it's very easy -- and frankly safer -- to jaywalk across this intersection.</p> <p>Jaywalk, people! It's really, really, really liberating! You get further, faster. You stay warmer and drier.</p> <p>It's how walking cities actually work -- the sooner Seattle acquires the skill, the sooner it can become one.</p> <p>(Drivers even get a corollary benefit, since the throngs crossing "legitimately" in jaywalking cities are thinner and less lethargic from being forced to wait.) </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125865 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 07:14:52 +0000 allisonw 125865@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Nora, hun, the word is "brake".</p> <p>And keep your eyes open. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125861 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 06:24:20 +0000 Nora Bell 125861@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>My apologies, Allison. I missed that part of Erik's comment. Regardless...<br /> Break for me. It's the law. :-) </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125860 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 06:21:38 +0000 Ernie 125860@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Penny, you do appreciate the humor in that comment coming from YOU. Right?</p> <p>I hope so, because I'm laughing at you right now. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125858 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 06:02:58 +0000 pennygirl 125858@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Ernie...</p> <p>You do realize that people notice every time you either agree with an Allison detractor or post +1 a comment don't you? It's getting boring. And embarrassing (for you). </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125855 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 05:54:09 +0000 Ernie 125855@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>+1 </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125853 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 05:49:02 +0000 BallardENTP 125853@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Allison, you do appreciate the humor in your calling law-abiding pedestrians "crybabies", and then in the same thread whining about SUV hatred. Right? </p> <p>I hope so, because I'm laughing at you right now. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125847 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 05:27:30 +0000 allisonw 125847@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Eric called out SUV drivers. I will continue to work out that intersection the best way I can. If you break your stride because of a white Xterra, feel free to chuck your latte at me. :D </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125841 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 05:08:40 +0000 Nora Bell 125841@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Um, I don't see any SUV hatred. In fact, I think you're the only one who ever mentioned SUVs on this thread, Allison.<br /> Break for me. It's the law. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125836 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 04:43:37 +0000 allisonw 125836@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>I just want to say that the SUV hatred can kiss my butt. Lilywhite as it may be. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125830 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 04:21:38 +0000 mostobstreperous 125830@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Here's a great idea: hire and train hundreds mimes to direct traffic, and mock citizens for their faux pas as pedestrians or drivers.</p> <p>Apparently this really happened in Bogata <a href="http://cyclinginquisition.blogspot.com/2011/01/velodromes-and-monorails-giving-people.html" rel="nofollow">http://cyclinginquisition.blogspot.com/2011/01/velodromes-and-monorails-giving-people.html</a> </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125818 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 03:34:39 +0000 SPG 125818@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Quoth the Alison: "Wow. If we were to all follow the RCW on this, there would not be a lot of turning traffic in areas with any significant pedestrian activity."</p> <p>Then so be it. You are not entitled to get through the core of Ballard at the speed limit. You are not entitled to get through an intersection quickly. You are not entitled to interpret the law as you please. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125817 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 03:22:09 +0000 jburgh 125817@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Here is the main page: <a href="http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/contact.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/contact.htm</a><br /> Traffic Signals = Dianne Thomas at 206-684-5118<br /> And here is the customer request form: <a href="http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/citizen_response.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/citizen_response.htm</a> </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125813 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 02:55:54 +0000 mostobstreperous 125813@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>And while putting the idea in folks' heads, a lot of traffic congestion could be eased at 24th &#38; Market by making that an "All Way Walk" rather than the current plan.</p> <p>Or consider what we do at holiday season downtown: SPD physically controls pedestrian traffic at 6th &#38; Pine to allow cars to make a right turn and keep traffic flowing. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125798 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 01:01:32 +0000 eric 125798@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>not agreeing at all with the folks who belly-ache about crosswalks, "too many" peds, etc. i drive, i know that intersection; its not likely at all that you'll wait multiple light cycles (or even one, really) to get your car through the area...</p> <p>while i wouldn't advocate throwing coffee at someones' car, the DB needed waking up it sounds like, oh well. </p> <p>there are ways to avoid that intersection if its too much trouble to, you know, not blaze through it endangering people. especially SUV drivers! bad enough rep as it is for those folks... </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125796 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 00:43:53 +0000 pennygirl 125796@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Never a good idea to go around hurling things at people because of what they 'nearly' did to you, even an overpriced cup of coffee. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125784 Tue, 04 Jan 2011 00:01:09 +0000 allisonw 125784@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>....not to mention the pedestrian threw his $4 coffee drink that he probably just bought at Whorebucks. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125783 Mon, 03 Jan 2011 23:59:51 +0000 allisonw 125783@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>Wow. If we were to all follow the RCW on this, there would not be a lot of turning traffic in areas with any significant pedestrian activity.</p> <p>I will gladly not lump all pedestrians in the same category as soon as all pedestrians stop doing the selfsame thing to all motorists. Bonus points for not dissing SUV drivers as a buncha mall-walkin' soccer moms. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125782 Mon, 03 Jan 2011 23:59:00 +0000 Edog 125782@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>"So the guy yelled an obscenity and heaved his full cup of steaming, sticky coffee at the vehicle.." Nothing says grounded, stable and healthy like throwing stuff at people and shouting obscenities in public. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125775 Mon, 03 Jan 2011 23:29:09 +0000 racerX 125775@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <blockquote><p>There needs to be consideration on both sides</blockquote> +1</p> <p>By the way, in case anyone is interested: </p> <blockquote><p>RCW 46.61.235</p> <p>Crosswalks.</p> <p>(1) The operator of an approaching vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian or bicycle to cross the roadway within an unmarked or marked crosswalk when the pedestrian or bicycle is upon or within one lane of the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning. For purposes of this section "half of the roadway" means all traffic lanes carrying traffic in one direction of travel, and includes the entire width of a one-way roadway.</p> <p>(2) No pedestrian or bicycle shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or otherwise move into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop.</p> <p>(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply under the conditions stated in RCW 46.61.240(2).</p> <p>(4) Whenever any vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian or bicycle to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass such stopped vehicle.</p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://www.cityofseattle.net/transportation/pedrcw.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.cityofseattle.net/transportation/pedrcw.htm</a> </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125771 Mon, 03 Jan 2011 22:51:44 +0000 Nora Bell 125771@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>This particular intersection, yes, could use a way for both parties to get where they're going without fear. I would vote for an all way stop. Everybody gets a turn.<br /> And Allison please don't lump all pedestrians in 'idiot with a cell phone' group. If I have to use my cell phone while walking I'll wait 'till I cross the street and then stop walking to use it. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125768 Mon, 03 Jan 2011 22:38:54 +0000 boardbrown 125768@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>I hate walking that crosswalk. I feel like a sitting duck. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125764 Mon, 03 Jan 2011 22:20:08 +0000 allisonw 125764@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>If anyone digs up an email address for us to suggest the "all skate" option to, please post it. I think that would help mightily.</p> <p>Ultimately the j-hole pedestrian crossing against the light while yapping on their cell phone wields the ultimate power in these situations, not the attentive motorist, so I ain't buying it. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125763 Mon, 03 Jan 2011 22:19:42 +0000 zengrey 125763@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>I really agree with the 5-way stop idea going on here. I think it would also really help the feeling of being in downtown Ballard. I am both a pedestrian and car owner, and I think a little 'plays well with others' from both groups would really help lower the stress levels. Traffic through Ballard is bad enough without hurling lattes or expletives at each other. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125745 Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:32:02 +0000 Dweezil 125745@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>I have always wanted to see this entire 5 way intersection turned into an all ways stop to allow diagonal crossing. Or at least the 4 way intersection at 22nd. And I would add the 4 way by the library as well. Would be awesome for both pedestrians and cars.</p> <p>Mayhaps I will start writing to SDOT about this possibility. </p> http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=8850#post-125741 Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:25:02 +0000 teigyr 125741@http://www.myballard.com/forum/ <p>I think Allison has a point. As a pedestrian, I generally look for cars. While I guess in theory I could walk, but if there is one car and nothing behind it, I'll wait. I've driven through areas (SPU comes to mind) that get SO congested with pedestrians that sometimes no cars can get through green lights. There needs to be consideration on both sides and in that case if the pedestrians bunched up and let a few cars go before they walked, things would go a lot more smoothly.</p> <p>There are super adamant pedestrians out there who expect respect from drivers and are not willing to give the drivers respect in return. </p>