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What's Wrong With Seattle - Part 1: Car Campers & Parking Tickets

(25 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by ballardpilot
  • Latest reply from Mondoman
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    ballardpilot

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    First in a series!

    Last night while watching the local news, I saw a story that perfectly captured what's wrong with this city and the idiots who run it.

    It seems that the city wants to crack down on residents who have multiple, unpaid parking tickets. Their solution: a new "boot" device which would be attached to any car caught parked on city streets whose registered owner has 3 or more outstanding parking tickets. This is not the traditional "Denver boot" - a simple but massive, heavy metal claw that makes it impossible to move a car. The Denver boot requires (I believe) someone from the authorities to come out and release your vehicle (once you have paid all your fees and fines). The new device, in typical Seattle fashion, is more high tech: it's also a big metal claw, but it has a keypad on it. The idea is that you contact the city (by going online), pay all your tickets - plus the hefty ($175?) unlock fee - by credit card to remove the claw. When you pay, the city gives you an unlock code, which you then enter on the boot itself, to release the device. Then you must bring the boot back to the city and drop it off - if you don't, you get dinged with hundreds more in penalties. It sounds like the total cost would be a minimum of several hundred dollars, assuming you do return the boot device promptly (probably 4 figures if you don't). If you don't pay up and remove the boot in a few days (and return the device to them), your car would be towed and impounded - more fines and fees for that. While it's impounded, the "storage fees" pile up every day. After a few more days, if you don't pay up, your car would be sold at auction to recover the costs (it wasn't clear to me if the registered owner would receive any of the proceeds, after the fees and fines were deducted, or if the city just keeps it all).

    OK, I get it that the city is looking for every opportunity to squeeze more revenue from its citizenry. I get it that the various anti-tax initiatives have tied their hands to a large extent (note that I'm no fan of the crooked watch salesman from Lynnwood and the damage that he has inflicted on the state). I also get it that the city isn't going to just let people off the hook (nor should they) if they have unpaid parking tickets. I also understand that this procedure is more or less what happens in big cities everywhere (except for the dazzling new high tech aspect of this gizmo, which surely makes Seattle's leaders' hearts go all aflutter).

    Here's where I have a problem with this....

    The city council seems to be moving forward to adopt this. There's just one thing apparently standing in their way: the car campers. "Homeless advocates" are concerned that this would unfairly impact their clients, and are protesting the proposal because the bums who live in their scummy RVs are amongst the worst "scofflaws" (this is what the "homeless advocate" said, not me) - most have dozens, sometimes hundreds, of unpaid parking tickets. They worry that this would unfairly target the car campers. So what does the city council do as a response? Of course, they are looking for ways to let the bums off the hook - they would be exempt.

    That's right. If you, long time citizen of Seattle, taxpayer, consumer, and contributor to the economy, manage to rack up a few unpaid parking tickets because you foolishly parked downtown at 7:45pm or on a Saturday afternoon, you run the risk of incurring multiple hundreds of dollars worth of fines, plus the hassle of having to take their "boot" and drop it off at the city's designated location after you've paid up. But Fat Freddy, living in his brown Winnebago that's parked on the street by the Fred Meyer (or in his van parked behind the library every day), who has racked up $1000 worth of tickets over the past few years of sponging off the system? No problem, they get a free pass! It would be cruel to hold the "homeless" accountable. So the city is looking for ways to exempt them from the tough love that the "boot" would apply to others. Nice.

    The bums openly admit that "Seattle is the best place in the world to be homeless." With policies like these, it's no wonder we attract more and more of them.

    How's that for the city's priorities?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. phoo

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    I know a number of people who would love to get ahold of such a device to see how secure it really is. Very frequently fancy-ass devices like this have an achilles heel that makes it ridiculously simple to get around. Ie: U-locks that open with end of a ballpoint pen.

    ballardpilot: Seattle has a long history of corruption. My other half has recently watched a lot of documentaries on various gangs. It is interesting to note that many of them started off protecting the neighborhood, trying to make it a better place. Then eventually things devolved into a quest for money and all bets were off. While I would not call government gangsters, there seems to be a similar devolution occurring.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. Asinine

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    What's wrong with Seattle? It's a liberal rat warren thats what's wrong with it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. donarb

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    Hmm, there must be a way to be able to park anywhere in the city without getting your car booted and having to return the device.

    Oh, I know! Pay your friggin tickets!! Problem solved, next!

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    ballardpilot

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    Yeah, I would not be at all surprised if such a device was easy to hack. Or, just as likely, that once it's in widespread use, there would be lists of unlock codes posted online.

    I suspect that this is ultimately just a slick moneymaking bid by a private company (like the red light cameras and such); "entrepreneurs" are looking for gullible suckers in local government who figure that they will receive a slice of the revenue, and since it's implemented by a private company, it's very easy for the local agency to impose. Personally, I don't think that basic government services should be handed over to for-profit companies (as an aside, I wonder what percentage of parking fees the city receives from all our electronic meters actually go to the city - my guess is that most of the revenue goes to a private company who runs the system, but that's just a guess, I could be wrong). To be fair, I don't know if this is pushed by a private, for-profit company, but I'd be quite surprised if it wasn't.

    Still, none of those are my primary beefs with this plan. It's the fact that the city is really looking to "stick it" to regular folks in a bad, bad way - but when it comes to the freeloaders who are already sponging off the system, they just get a pass - because, you know, we can't be mean to them.

    This seems all too typical of the city's priorities, but maybe I'm crazy - I think the city government's job is to try and improve the quality of life for its citizens.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    ballardpilot

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    Oh, I know! Pay your friggin tickets!! Problem solved, next!

    I agree. The issue here is how you handle it when someone doesn't.

    It's been a long time since I got a parking ticket - years (heck, I've pretty much given up on downtown Seattle, and rarely go there anymore). This is not going to hit me. But it seems like a completely ass-backward way to enforce it: stick it to the citizens if they screw up, but the bums can ignore the laws completely and suffer no consequences.

    That's the issue.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    ball_23

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    Ballardpilot - thank you for your post. I agree! This is really outrageous. I saw the same news blurb yesterday and was also astounded at the City's complete pandering to the car camper advocates. There's so much wrong here I don't know even where to begin. I counted at least 5 campers and RVs in my immediate 2 block radius. B/t/w - we live in a residential zone....it's not even supposed to be legal to camp on residential streets! So in addition to not enforcing car camping rules that are on the books the City is now ignoring their parking infractions!!!!!... Unbelievable! I urge everyone who wants to see a fair laws and rules applied to EVERYONE in Ballard (including us responsible, tax paying citizens) to call City councilmemebers and demand some rational decisionmaking.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. Hermann Goering

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    Round zem up wie gypsies, bauen ein wall around zem, und finden eine a solution later.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. SPG

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    Pay your parking tickets? Nah. All you have to do is contest it, and say in a sheepish voice in front of a judge that you had explosive diarrhea and could not leave the restroom to move your car in time. They will let you off the hook.

    The high tech boot is fine by me. It allows someone to be able to get back on the road with minimal impact to their time if they pay, whereas with a city removed boot they'd have to wait for normal business hours to be on their way.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. Nehalennia

    Nehalennia

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    Ballard Pilot +1

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. Hermann Goering

    Hermann Goering

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    I know people who would runnen deise Stadt much more efficiently zan it is now. I could seize control if you like? Du know zet fire to a building und blame it on zee communitists who control this zity. Immer eine gute schtart.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. phoo

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    ballardpilot: the excuse may be not being "mean" to them but you know as well as I it's because they don't have money. The goal is to make money and you just don't do that by going after folks who neither have any nor have any intention of paying and have little to lose.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    chrisd

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    Wierd! And all this time, I thought people living in RVS and car camping were homeless & just trying to survive. Freeloading spongers with no intention of paying...well, that's much different.

    Not that I don't see this as a dilemna, but you people talk like that group of our population are all scam artists, not people who have slipped through the cracks.

    Any idea how hard it is to put your life back together once you lose your home?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. teigyr

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    There's a guy who runs a drug dealing and prostitution business out of campers near Aurora and 130th. It's my understanding it's one guy and his working people work out of the campers. Those ones stay parked until forced to move. There's an abandoned looking van up near Linden and 143rd that has several tickets on it.

    The working poor need assistance though I don't think it's their right to live on the street in front of peoples houses. Honestly though the ones I've seen are not the working poor, they are scamming the system. If they are truly trying to find a better place, then they probably shouldn't be spending their money on beer and drugs, etc.

    I think the car campers should be included. Heck, they aren't paying utilities or for rental space and if they forget to move their camper every three days, whose fault is that?

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    MLEemily

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    Ballardpilot (and those who agreed with you here), you seem to be under the impression that because you are "good" and "responsible" and "law abiding" (for the most part) that you could not end up living in your car, if you were lucky enough to have or keep one. I am a mostly law abiding, responsible and, I hope, good person but I'm one extended illness or accident away from being homeless. And I don't have a car. And then I couldn't keep a job, get a new job or have any money to pay any sort of bills, parking tickets or other necessities. No one would take my good, responsibleness as reason enough to employ me. Would I then be freeloading or living off "the system"? No longer "good"?

    Granted, this is a ridiculous plan, booting people's cars. It would be cheaper in the long run to take unpaid parking tickets exceeding a certain amount to a collection agency. No technology needed, no towing, no man-hours applying boots, etc. Plus, most people these days are more worried about maintaining a good credit rating (in case this "recession" ever ends) than if they have to take the bus because their car got booted.

    You had a point about it being a stupid plan, but you went for the wrong jugular. People who car-camp aren't pretty or picturesque, agreed. They might make us feel uncomfortable, because there they are BEING POOR RIGHT WHERE WE CAN SEE THEM! But you can't decide what their story is for them and you can't blame THEM for not having money, making the city not go after what they don't have...if you follow. Poverty exists. Some of it is due to bad decisions. Some of it is due to unfairness in our society. Some is due to untreated mental illness or a past felony conviction or a house fire or an expesive diagnosis or a gambling addiction. You don't know and it's not very "good" or "responsible" of anyone to say they know why some one is forced to live in their vehicle or on the streets, or that it automatically makes them less worthy of consideration or help.

    Sometimes this forum is really great, thought provoking and helpful. Sometimes is is a huge disappointment.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. BallardENTP

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    Phoo's got the right of it. The purpose of parking tickets is to generate money for the city. Booting, impounding, storing, and auctioning the car campers will not generate money for the city. Or rather, it will generate a little bit on money once, and then all the car campers will be truly homeless. Deprived of the RV, they'll move to the street or to shelters, and ultimately drain more $.

    Taking their vehicles (and fighting the political fight to do so) is not worth the effort.

    Not saying it's "right". Just saying that the council's decision makes sense/fits the goal of the boot project.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. SPG

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    Having had to deal with a number of car campers in a previous job, my experience is a little different. They were with a single exception a genuine pain in the ass. Liars, thieves, dopers, ex-cons, or otherwise just trying to get one over any chance they got. I still feel sorry for some of them as it's not an ideal lifestyle, but don't kid yourselves about who you're dealing with.
    The people who were "down and out" through a medical emergency or financial difficulties and forced to live in a camper would pull them in to RV parks or relatives driveways, or stay with friends. The people you see parked on the streets around Ballard have either burned all those bridges and gotten kicked out of the RV parks or would rather park on the street so they can give their dealer the money it would cost to have a legitimate RV hook up.
    They are a blight on the community and they do have an economic impact on local business and property values. I'm not suggesting that we imprison people for this, but we shouldn't encourage it either.
    The only real solution I see is the city and all other cities providing more affordable housing.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    ballardpilot

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    Thanks, SPG, that's my impression of these people, too, although I'll admit that my direct interactions with them have been fairly limited in recent years (although in the past I knew folks who simply chose this as a carefree lifestyle). To those who feel that these are just decent, unfortunate folks going through a rough patch, I think you should take off the rose-colored glasses and look again. Most of these people are there by choice.

    Regardless of what you choose to believe about them, how do you feel about laws? Should laws only apply to some people?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. Mondoman

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    I was with you until the last sentence, SPG! Ouch! That whiplash hurts!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. SPG

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    Ballardpilot, It's not always by choice...addiction isn't a choice for some people. Some of them chose the RV after having too many issues with cheap rentals that would rent to ex cons and RSOs so the RV seemed like a better option.

    Mondoman, The two points of view are not mutually exclusive. I don't think there should be RV campers all over our neighborhood and I do think all cities need to do a better job of providing housing that is affordable as part of a viable social safety net. In fact, a real social safety net would eliminate 90% of these RVs as people would be able to get treatment and have the financial and social stability needed to hold down a job and have a place to live.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. Hermann Goering

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    These antisocial criminals pose a serious threat to a healthy society. Vee really mussen eine Gruppe von Ballard Brownshirts formieren. We must push these criminals and subhumans into a Ghetto of our making far aweg von here, und deal with them more thoroughly later.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. donarb

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    As for collection agencies, that what this company is doing. You have to have 4 tickets and your account has to go into collections, and they have to spot your car before it is booted.

    If you don't want to be booted, pay your tickets, or better yet, don't get tickets in the first place.

    As for drug dealers on the streets, if you see a crime, report it. Saying that you see crime happening and whining about it in a blog accomplishes nothing. If the cops do nothing, call the TV stations, they just love doing negative stories about city hall.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. Apple

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    It is my understanding that this boot thing is better than a collection agency. The scofflaw pays $175 to the boot company to remove the boot after paying ALL of the money owed for back tickets. The city gets all of the money owed for tickets. A collection agency would take a percentage of the money owed for back tickets.

    The troubling issue here to me is selective enforcement of a law based on economic status.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    ballardpilot

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    Should laws apply to everyone? Or are some people above (or below) the law? Pretty basic stuff.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. Mondoman

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    Exactly!

    Posted 1 year ago #

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