1. 

   gurple
   

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   On the Burke-Gilman, at the train tracks crossing east of Hale's, someone has put up a large, spray-painted sign that says "Poo Poo for Choo Choo". Probably someone who isn't very happy with the new crossing situation.

   I'm not sure if it's any safer than it was before, myself. The new crossing forces cyclists to slow down, turn, immediately enter a short stretch that's barely wider than two bicycles with an immediate drop off the pavement on either side, and then make another turn.

   That's fine if everyone's slowing down and being careful also a reasonably skilled cyclist. If two people approach from opposite directions and one cuts the corner, then someone's likely to be in trouble, and the person who falls is likely to be the more cautious cyclist, not the one who breezed through.

   Has anybody been in, or seen, an accident there since the change?

   Posted 1 year ago #
2. 

   MidWest
   

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   Dang.

   The invisible Land Sharks and whirling blades we set up there clearly are not working to full effect. The poster has lived to post yet another day...

   Posted 1 year ago #
3. 

   gtd17
   

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   I'm glad you posted this, I had trouble navigating the new smooth asphalt trail and sharp corner...this was the result.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpRENQ9zD6E&feature=fvst

   Posted 1 year ago #
4. 

   SEdholm
   

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   Oh darn, the same bikers that don't announce they are coming and nearly clip me all the time, have to slow down.

   Posted 1 year ago #
5. 

   JulianDavies
   

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   What I don't understand is why spend money on such a convoluted track crossing when there are only about 30ft of tracks to the east of that crossing. And I have NEVER seen rolling stock on that end segment, and the fantasy "choo choo" league has plenty of room elsewhere. The rational thing to do would have been to just pave over those tracks at the crossing, to avoid the sketchy jog.

   And to the folks that think Gurple is whining, how's about we engineer something similar on your morning commute? Pick a spot on Leary to cut down from 4 travel lanes to one bidirectional lane with a big detour around a nifty model trainset that gets played with maybe once a month? You don't mind slowing down, right?

   Posted 1 year ago #
6. 

   gurple
   

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   Julian, I noticed the same thing this morning, that the track pretty much ends _right there_. I had never noticed that before. What possible use do those last 30 feet of track have?

   To be absolutely clear to those with poor reading comprehension, I'm not whining that about having to slow down. I'm worrying that the inevitable cyclists who _don't_ slow down enough (due to obliviousness, jackassery or lack of experience) are likely to injure people who _do_, and maybe take out some pedestrians while they're at it. No one wants that. This crossing could have been engineered to make that a lot less likely.

   Posted 1 year ago #
7. 

   great idea
   

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   "And to the folks that think Gurple is whining, how's about we engineer something similar on your morning commute? Pick a spot on Leary to cut down from 4 travel lanes to one bidirectional lane with a big detour around a nifty model trainset that gets played with maybe once a month? You don't mind slowing down, right? "

   what's funny about this, is that the change was brought about because some bicyclist demanded it. it's not like the train just moved in and made them reconfigure it (granted would be great if the train was gone)

   what's even funnier is that same bicyclist sounded like she was going too fast with the previous conditions (causing her fall), and will likely fall again and sue the city as this is no improvement.

   Posted 1 year ago #
8. 

   MidWest
   

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   We know a family that knows the family of the owner of the Ballard Terminal Railroad, so some back room conversations came our way.

   The RR is BS, and the owner knows it; runs the useless thing to keep the right of way, but knows full well it's a damn scam. Sleazy, scummy BS.

   Posted 1 year ago #
9. 

   Mondoman
   

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   I guess I don't see how the reckless cyclists will be injuring the cautious cyclists/pedestrians there but not themselves.

   JD, having passed both other cyclists and pedestrians going the opposite direction at the new crossing, seems like it's more 3 lanes narrowing to 2.

   Posted 1 year ago #
10. 

    motorrad
    

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    Same as how drunks miraculously survive horrible car wrecks they cause while the sober responsible people are killed.

    Posted 1 year ago #
11. 

    SmartsyArtsy
    

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    Glad to see this posting. While I do agree with SEdholm's snark, the width of that area is a problem. On my first travel on that area, I did almost turn right over onto the tracks. Some a$$hole decided to slow down only to 20 mph, startling me enough for my front wheel to turn away onto the edge of the path. I was ready for it the next time and oops! took over half of the other lane. The two guys behind me yelled get over to the right barely before they whizzed past. If it's not safe enough for my trike, it must not be for any biker hauling a kiddie car.

    Posted 1 year ago #
12. 

    gurple
    

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    Mondoman: "I guess I don't see how the reckless cyclists will be injuring the cautious cyclists/pedestrians there but not themselves."

    Exactly how SmartsyArtsy describes. If you're barreling into that chokepoint, cutting the corner so as to slow down as little as possible, you're probably pretty brazen and not likely to lose the game of chicken that you're playing. Someone entering the zone more cautiously might turn aside to avoid you, as SmartsyArtsy did, and go off the edge of the asphalt.

    And if there's a pedestrian around at the same time all that's going on, woe betide them.

    Posted 1 year ago #
13. 

    SEdholm
    

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    I will admit as a runner, it is too small.

    Posted 1 year ago #
14. 

    gurple
    

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    Incidentally, this effect (a fast cyclist can speed by causing chaos to others but not be personally affected, themselves) is not unique to this crossing. This is one of many answers to the commonly-asked question "Why are some percentage of cyclists such assholes?"

    Posted 1 year ago #
15. 

    Cheese
    

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    Yeah Gurple, if everybody approached that re-worked curve slowly and in their lane it could be argued that it is safer than the way it was (albeit only a "could be"). However, because of the Lance-a-be's that have to shave off 0.00001 seconds in their Cat Minus 5 Zillion training plan, it is many times worse for everyone else in the world that have found that extra 0.00001 seconds to spare in their life to cross the tracks safely.

    Posted 1 year ago #
16. 

    Mondoman
    

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    Thanks, SA and G, got the picture now! I agree with your additional post above that this issue isn't unique to this crossing; in fact, seems like it would also be a problem at the various trail/street crossings in that area where the ramp to the street is significantly narrower than the trail. Given that, I would think that focused enforcement activity, say during the morning and afternoon commutes, would help the true cause of the issue. Do you think citizen complaints to the City would be enough to get a police offer there once or twice for an emphasis patrol?

    Posted 1 year ago #
17. 

    gurple
    

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    Actually, though maybe a patrol or two would help (people would remember getting a ticket for a long time), I think the true cause of the issue is the artificial choke point imposed by the unused railroad. "Asshole cyclists" are _mostly_ just "fast cyclists" on the parts of the trail that aren't so blatantly ridiculous.

    That's just semantics, though.

    (edited to say "That's just semantics, though.")

    Posted 1 year ago #
18. 

    Mondoman
    

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    While I agree that this specific crossing could do with being made wider, I've seen cyclists blow by slower-moving others even on straight stretches way too closely (IMHO) without any notification, such that the situation SA describes would happen there as well. Why not try to reduce (solving would be a bridge too far!) the problem everywhere along the trail via enforcement? I don't see the money for mass widening of the trail or even its many street crossing ramps becoming available any time soon. That would also help the issue of "cyclists get to flout the law -- they're never ticketed for anything".

    Or maybe the B-G is just a Darwinian dog-eat-dog utopia of natural selection. I'd stay away from e-dog and stick to Hebrew National -- yummy!

    Posted 1 year ago #
19. 

    gurple
    

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    Sure, why not?

    Enforcement isn't free, either, though. And fixing up the worst trouble spots would, I think, be the most effective use of money.

    Posted 1 year ago #
20. 

    cdpenne
    

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    Asshole cyclists aren't just fast cylists at all. Fast cyclists are fine. Asshole cyclists are the indignant jerks who push this 'take the lane' stuff simply too far. They want 3 feet of space but then when it is afforded to them and auto driver has moved to front, the cylists use 1 foot of space to retake and force the whole sequence to repeat. They take the bus lane and force the bus to merge into often times near stand still traffic to go around and then repeat it all at the next light. They never ever ever stop at any stop sign or stop light that I have seen. They never ever stop for peds at cross walks. They pull up to a light and magically transform into a ped even though they never ever dismount and walk the crossWALK. And all this behavior is promoted as defensive and proper. It is no wonder they get run over.

    I have no problem with bicylists, really I don't. But it is a big dangerous world out there and if you really want to play then play. Get on those 2 wheels, feel that freedom, and take the lane if you think you can handle it. But you can take your silly bumper stickers and slogans and shove 'em in your silly little shorts because the incessant whining about how the red sea of auto death doesn't part before your oh so holy saving the world from oil dependence is just plain stupid.

    Know your place. Small, unprotected, vulnerable, on a razor's edge. That is the bicycle commuters lot in life and it won't change ever.

    Posted 1 year ago #
21. 

    PizzaGuy
    

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    cdpenne +1

    Posted 1 year ago #
22. 

    teigyr
    

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    well said, cdpenne.

    Posted 1 year ago #
23. 

    Cheese
    

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    I was in cdpenne's camp yesterday when I stopped (on my bike) at the four-way stop at Govt Way and Dravus. I was proceeding in my turn across the intersection when a woman out of nowhere just ran the stop sign to my right. I said something like "Nice one". And she blew her top. She was the poster child of Asshole Cyclists (tm). Somehow to her I'm the bad guy because I called her out on breaking the law. The best part was when she called me "sanctimonious" because I said that how her actions are perceived affect all bicyclists. However, I believe that the ratio of Asshole Cyclists to all cyclists is the same as Asshole Drivers to all drivers - they just happen to be on a bike. If she was in a SUV she would have blown through it too.

    But back on the subject of the reworked track crossing - I think by definition a fast cyclist who is fast crossing it the way it is now has to be an asshole cyclist - there is no way to be fast through there without being a jerk.

    Posted 1 year ago #
24. 

    Mondoman
    

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    yep, cdp ftw

    Posted 1 year ago #
25. 

    Alysse
    

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    Gurple, the title of the post reminds me of the Beatles' song: I am the walrus
    ... I am the walrus, coo coo ca choo, coo coo ca choo ....

    Posted 1 year ago #
26. 

    great idea
    

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    I was wondering when someone would interpret this as a Beatles thread ;)

    on a sadder note, yet another bicyclist was hit early this morning. and once again, the vehicle driver did not stop.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015827768_hitandrun06m.html

    In just the last three weeks, there have been four accidents involving bicyclists, three of them fatal.

    it's becoming increasingly dangerous to ride your bike around here, regardless of areas like this one where bicyclist are a danger themselves.

    Posted 1 year ago #
27. 

    BuffaloHawk
    

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    GI- You beat me to it as I just saw that a minute ago and it reminded me of the accident last week.It is a scary world out there and when riding a bike use extra caution. Safe travels to everyone .

    PS Thanks for the earworm Alysse:) It is alot better than the one I got when I saw Hall & Oats listed as a headliner at Bumbershoot this year.

    Posted 1 year ago #
28. 

    mongo
    

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    I won't drive at 2AM due to all of the drunks out on the road, being on a motorcycle/bicycle is crazy but I hope that the person is OK.

    I think bikepath style speed bumps or noise grooves on either side of the new corner would help get people to slow down, after 22 years of riding I would say that just like in any other activity humans are lazy, you have to pretty much force them into slowing down for corners.

    Posted 1 year ago #
29. 

    gurple
    

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    These things are true:

    1. Not all fast cyclists are assholes
    2. Not all asshole cyclists are fast
    3. The more cycling infrastructure Seattle builds, the less impact asshole cyclists will have on everybody else

    Posted 1 year ago #
30. 

    BuffaloHawk
    

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    Here is another one from last night and the bicyclist wasn't as lucky.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44028401/ns/local_news-seattle_wa/

    RENTON, Wash. -- A bicycle rider hit by an SUV in Renton Thursday night has died.

    Police said the cyclist, a man in his 60's or 70's, was crossing the street on the 200 block of Logan Avenue North near Renton Memorial Stadium when he was hit by the SUV

    Police said he had a helmet strapped to his bike, but was not wearing it for some reason.

    Posted 1 year ago #
31. 

    mongo
    

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    gurple:

    Statistically bicyclists kill as many other bicyclists as do car drivers.

    This is not Lake Wobegon where everyone is above average, human reaction times and the friction available to your tires for turning and breaking are pretty consistent.

    The majority of fast drivers, bike riders, motorcycle riders are not more skilled, they just either do not care about putting others at risk or do not know the risks.

    If you are riding too fast to deal with other users on the trail or to make a turn in your lane you are going to o fast and thus are an asshole and us other riders hate that you are the "spokesman" for us.

    Posted 1 year ago #
32. 

    great idea
    

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    "Statistically bicyclists kill as many other bicyclists as do car drivers."

    I don't think this is true.

    I perused a few of these reports:
    http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/pedbike/96104/

    and it's quite clear the majority of fatalities involve cars. Bikes might make other bikes crash, but the serious injuries involve cars.

    Posted 1 year ago #
33. 

    mongo
    

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    Great idea,

    Those reports are collected as bike vs. car and to not cover other deaths.

    I am looking for the study that Mike Snyder posted here a few years ago.

    Lone crashes (the most common cause of death) and ped vs. ped crashes are not considered "traffic" and are not well tracked.

    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pubs/811156.pdf

    just look at that report though, males are 8 times as likely to die, just like most crashes in any form of transportation.

    Posted 1 year ago #
34. 

    mongo
    

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    Here is his post, it was not limited to fatal at that time it appears.

    http://www.myballard.com/forum/topic.php?id=1469

    I just posted this on the Cascade Bicycle Club forums recently, but it is probably useful info for this discussion too:

    Miles per crash:
    Bicycle club riders - 8900
    College students - 2000
    Elementary school children - 1400

    Crash involvement:
    Solo bicycle crash - 50%
    Bicycle vs Bicycle - 17%
    Bicycle vs Car - 17%
    Bicycle vs Dog - 8%
    Other - 8%

    CPSC data:
    46% of cycling fatalities happened at night. Only 8% of those cyclists had lights.

    Of those 17% of crashes that involve cars:

    Source: Jerrold Kaplan, 1974, William E. Moritz 1996. (Smart Cycling: Traffic Skills 101 page 22)
    Who is at fault? Action %
    Bicyclist Wrong Way riding facing traffic 14%
    Bicyclist Left furn from the right side of the road 11%
    Bicyclist Failure to yield form driveway 9%
    Bicyclist Running a stop sign or signal 8%
    Bicyclist Serving in front of car 5%
    Motorist Left turn in front of the bicyclist 13%
    Motorist Right turn in front of the bicyclist 11%
    Motorist Running a stop sign or signal 8%
    Motorist Opening car door into path of the cyclist 7%
    Motorist Failure to yield from driveway 6%
    Motorist Didn't see the cyclist 3%
    Undetermined 5%

    Posted 1 year ago #
35. 

    JulianDavies
    

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    asshole cyclists ... boooooooring. and as usual, wildly exaggerated.

    for examples of truly mind-boggling sociopathic behavior, it's generally the assholes behind the wheel. from last night:
    http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Seattle-bike-rider-survives-hit-run-accident-1736113.php

    run over cyclist, leave the scene, stop for burger on the way home. nice.

    assholes will be assholes, they're safer (to the rest of us) on 2 wheels than 4

    Posted 1 year ago #
36. 

    mongo
    

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    JulianDavies,

    People are people, in any group of any self identified "tribe" you will have some. but this topic started about an issue on the BG trail, IMHO if you can not take that turn you are going too fast and thus an a-hole.

    (I just rode though it with no issue a few hours ago)

    Posted 1 year ago #
37. 

    JulianDavies
    

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    *of course* it's safe if you go slow enough, but that doesn't turn an unnecessary hairpin jog into good infrastructure.

    just about any dangerous road or trail design would be safe if cyclists/drivers drove slow enough. good design is asshole-tolerant.

    Posted 1 year ago #
38. 

    great idea
    

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    "good design is asshole-tolerant. "

    true enough. I was thinking about this earlier when reading a comment about how the road diet on nickerson hasn't slowed traffic, partly because there's less "surprise" left turns (presumably where some asshat put their left turn signal on at the very last second). now cars must drive into the median to turn, so it's more "asshole tolerant"

    similarly, while walking down 20th, I noticed some young punk riding his bike down the sidewalk, narrowly missing some pedestrians. I was thinking that when the bike lane was finished on that street, future incidents like this wouldn't happen.
    but they do. because the addition of bike lanes to a street is not "asshole-tolerant" design. many people still fear being hit by a car from behind, or being "doored." so they take the sidewalk instead.

    don't think of it as subscribing to the lowest common denominator, quite the opposite--asshole tolerant design is finally catching on and has eclipsed feng shui as the number one focus at urban design programs across the country.
    I've seen the future, and we're all assholes.

    Posted 1 year ago #
39. 

    onederfullone
    

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    has eclipsed feng shui

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0RbdVE8Pj4

    Posted 1 year ago #
40. 

    teigyr
    

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    I didn't see the sign but I ran by there today. It reminds me a bit of a stretch on the Interurban down towards Auburn-ish. Maybe they should put up a sign warning cyclists to slow down? The assholes will disregard, of course, but maybe others will take notice. I decided to make my lovely 15 mile run (yay for cloud cover!) into a sight-seeing expedition of sharrows and missing links. The sharrow lanes down to Golden Gardens are a joke, I was almost taken out a few times and I was pretty much as much in the dirt as I could be.

    Lots of kids out on the trail and lots of inattentive parents. I can see how people get frustrated.

    Posted 1 year ago #
41. 

    Kim Jong-il
    

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    Oh no poor American cyclist have slow down or get off bike while go over train track. Is make for teary eye from injustice. If fall because stupid you be more careful next time, is like when burn self on stove for first time. Dearest Leader need tissue now for dry waterfall eyes.

    Posted 1 year ago #
42. 

    Mondoman
    

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    gi, yes, I'm one of those who mostly rides on the sidewalk because of the (non-asshole) reasons you mention. I was looking at the info on the Dexter project, and found that they originally proposed a "bikeway" where the bike lane would be immediately next to the curb, then the parking spaces next, and finally the traffic lanes in the center. The current config, though, has the bike lanes next to the traffic lanes as usual. However, they are going to be painting a 2-foot extra buffer zone between the bike lane and the traffic lane. I'm curious to see if this will help make me and others feel safer and take the bike lane instead of the sidewalk.

    Posted 1 year ago #
43. 

    cdpenne
    

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    "assholes will be assholes, they're safer (to the rest of us) on 2 wheels than 4"

    I couldnt' agree more. But that in itself doesn't justify the preferential treatment you lobby for. Your dead comarades are no different than the other people (commuters) who die regularly.

    You merely choose to highlight their deaths to forward your own agenda and justify your supposed pissyness.

    The animosity and war is a fabrication of your own mindset that you are trying to arribute to others through a sly (though not of your own creation) media campaign.

    You say you would use the trail and others do to, but no one has said they would yeild or stop and an SBSG driveway.

    Posted 1 year ago #
44. 

    JulianDavies
    

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    that's a lot of attempted mind-reading for one post, cd ...

    my pissyness is actual and not supposed, but thank you for playing.

    the "war on cars" meme was not slyly created by active transportation activists, but wow, that's a creative way to look at it.

    and yes, I would yield to a cement truck, in case you were actually wondering and not just putting words in my mouth.

    and I don't think shifting a small fraction of the massive subsidy single-occupancy vehicles receive towards bike/ped investments is "preferential treatment" ... it's just less preferential towards your preferred mode of transport.

    you might want to read "traffic" by tom vanderbilt. you're obviously passionate about the issue, and there's plenty of solid information in there about how our roads got to be the way they are. he's not as "bike-partisan" as I am, if that helps.

    Posted 1 year ago #
45. 

    Upside Down
    

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    ˙ɥʇıʍ ƃuıǝǝɹƃɐ ɟןǝsʎɯ puıɟ ı ʇɐɥʇ ʇuıod ɐ ǝʌɐɥ oʇ sɯǝǝs ǝɥ 'ǝɯ oʇ sı ɹoʇɐʇɔıp uɐǝɹoʞ opnǝsd ʇuǝɹɐddɐ ǝɥʇ sɐ ƃuıʎouuɐ sɐ

    Posted 1 year ago #
46. 

    Ballard Giant
    

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    Julian,

    Your family on your bicycle needs to wear helmets. It's the law.
    The subsidies for cars and trucks (as well as transit) exist so there is an economy. Workers can get to work, food and goods can be delivered to stores and restaurants, etc. This benefits all, including the spandex clan. Don't act so naive.

    Posted 1 year ago #
47. 

    JulianDavies
    

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    but we do wear the helmets. and don't wear the spandex. and bike to work and school, freeing up space on the road for people that actually need to be driving. which is good for the economy, and benefits all.

    my avatar is a drawing. you know ... art. not a photo of my family. cause if we're going to be so literal, your SUV with the bitchin message needs some more bondo.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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