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Daily news for Seattle's Ballard neighborhood |
ironymaiden
offlineMember
has anyone heard about a food distribution program happening in Ballard Commons park? i'm seeing boxes and carts of food (and later the empty containers) on a daily basis.
(i'm mostly in favor of it, except for the part where there's food debris everywhere but in the trash cans and i have to fight to keep my dog away from all the cooked chicken bones.)
ebgolf@msn.com
offlineMember
I haven't heard about any food distribution. It is very upsetting to have to deal with the mess that people leave behind.
feeltheburn
offlineMember
ironymaiden...you might be "mostly in favor of it" but I'm entirely opposed. The library/Ballard Commons area (and Ballard in general) has significant problems with transients/addicts/chronic inebriates. They trash the bathrooms at library, leave their garbage (including the hypodermic needles) strewn about, and generally make life unpleasant for the people who give a sh*t about our community.
If we want to maintain the quality of life in our neighborhood, we simply cannot permit this type of "food distribution" or similar activities. They only attract more transients/addicts/chronic inebriates to our community and encourage the current ones to stay. Moreover, resources (such a the Ballard Food Bank) already exist to provide food.
JenniferR
offlineMember
I know that St Luke's church (the brown church next to the library) serves a hot lunch 2 days a week. They've done it for years and it seems mostly orderly and clean.
great idea
offlineMember
even the snowy owl picked that church to land on--must be a good one!
onederfullone
offlineMember
There is a difference between responsible outreach, and irresponsible outreach.
Perhaps even Ballard is capable of recognizing the difference.
Carry on.
onederfullone
offlineMember
There is a difference between responsible outreach, and irresponsible outreach.
Perhaps even Ballard is capable of recognizing the difference.
Carry on.
[edit] Perhaps worth the double post...
ironymaiden
offlineMember
i would just like to know who is responsible so that i can say something to them about the garbage...
Cate
offlineMember
I don't know of a feeding program at the park (and I usually know about these things). Wonder if it could be people bringing food from the QFC and eating in the park (thinking the chicken in particular)? Or even from the food bank or dumpster diving? Eating a meal in a public park is an acceptable use of the space but leaving trash is disgusting whatever your living situation. I haven't looked for them so I don't know but are there adequate waste receptacles in the park?
onederfullone
offlineMember
Of course, Cate, but you need to 'look' for them.
I don't understand it myself, especially when the answer to this type of disregard for our public places seems to be trend toward a trash can every two feet...
Maybe we need a litter law? lol
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMember
Cate, the park's trash cans are an ill-advised model, small and quick to fill, and sealed with a spring-mounted lid barely bigger than a compact disc that requires some force to depress. They are difficult to use without touching the lid at some point, and the lids are invariably disgusting. I always carry my trash with me to Bartell's or to a receptacle on Market Street.
These definitely should be replaced with bigger and more sanitary models, though that doesn't excuse the litter from any food distribution for the needy. On that, I fall somewhere between Ironymaiden and Feeltheburn: we should be encouraging responsible service and outreach; the sole caveat should be that the recipients need to demonstrate an ability and willingness to respect the community they inhabit.
That definitely means not condoning a trail of trash left in their wake. It probably also means working with the library, the neighborhood service center, and the police to ensure that all involved can distinguish between benign "nowhere to go" loitering and hostile/destructive behavior, and know that the two will not receive equal tolerance.
Cate
offlineMember
Oh, I don't in anyway condone littering and mess-making in our parks. But what I know of human nature tells me that if the garbage cans are easy to see and easy to use it is more likely they will be used.
Cate
offlineMember
It is common here on the forum to complain that Ballard has more then its fair share of problems with homeless. This was published today in the Seattle Times showing how feeding the homeless can be done appropriately (well, until the city starts getting involved). http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2017263749_danny18.html
Norge
offlineMember
There are people in Ballard that won't be happy until there is a tent or car camper in every Ballard yard (except their own) and food handed out on every corner.
cdpenne
offlineMember
A vote was taken and it was decided Norge's yard is the best location for a new car camper location and food distribution ponint.
chech
offlineMember
Every morning when walking my dog I see a guy carrying multiple cartons of food out to the bench, then 1 by 1 opening them and tossing them out to the seagulls, and pigeons. So maybe that's what your seeing?
Compass Rose
offlineMember
I've noticed the same thing recently. The other day I walked through the park and saw several packaged food items sitting on top of that metal box (utilities box?) near the corner of 25th and 57th. I didn't take a good look, but they appeared to be items from the QFC deli .... so perhaps QFC is leaving leftover items out there for people?
At any rate, I agree with feeltheburn. This is an irresponsible, poor way to serve homeless people and only encourages a mess. There's a food bank right down the street, which is a much better venue for food delivery.
cdpenne
offlineMember
OH My gawd. Giving hand outs to the homeless pigeons and seagulls! Don't they know that only atracts more of the flying rats. Pretty soon there will ba noisey squawking flock of the vermin waiting impatiently! And then, they'll have little pigeon and seagull babies that will forever return looking for the free handouts. Quick call Norge, and Flounder, and Boingo! We need to meet down there ASAP and eradicate these flying freeloading vermin before Ballard is completely over run! Kill them! KILL THEM!
onederfullone
offlineMember
Regrettably, it isn't legal, smart guy.
First what has to happen is a committee. They will carefully study the origin, sex, age and intentions of the flying rats, and determine if they are indeed from other regions. If it is determined they are domestic, they will be addled and chased by dogs.
If they are foreign flying rats, they will be welcomed, and fed very well, by law.
I suppose you'd be first to offer sweet praise for such a 'civil' outreach?
Compass Rose
offlineMember
Cdpenne, your altruism is exemplary. What's your address? Since you clearly support this means of food distribution, I'm sure you would be amenable to offering up your home as a distribution point. The Ballard Food Bank would no doubt appreciate the extra help.
And you probably also have a little extra room in your place, so why not show what a good neighbor you are and take in a few homeless people while you're at it?
cdpenne
offlineMember
I do believe altruism is a quality we all could use a little more of and that probably starts with some understanding of what it means-
behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species
If you think mine is exemplary, I am flattered but it is clear you would use my oft employed irony against me. Fair enough.
But let's get someting straight here....
My above quip about pigeons and sea gulls was tongue in cheek becuase I have killed no less that 40 of the flying rats (pigeons) because there was an established colony on my house when I bought it. Therefore, the fact (and the subsequent analogy) that the mess might actually have been caused by a vermin other than the humanoid homeless type really tickled my funny bone (I really have a despicable sense of humor).
So, when a bunch of NIMBY PRICKS, always willing to be hot under the collar about anyone who might be getting a free ride somewhere within their freeloader-radar-range, start posting about what a shit hole they live in and the next thing you know they decide it has to be some outsider's fault (read homeless outsider). And then it turns out it just might be the birds. That's funny!
And how do you take care of freeloading birds? Kill them! That's a pretty well understood concept here in the good ol' US-of-A before, and still after, we were forced to celebrate the heretics birthday this past Monday.
So what are we getting straight?
I suck at altruism. But I hate NIMBYs. Those self satisfied pricks attack anyone who's heart hasn't already been turned into useless matter and their pitiful attempts to rationalize it are nauseating. Those involved in direct action charity don't have to offer their homes to please the decripit mind. Why bother trying to please the sell out?
Roses that fester smell far worse than weeds and a compass that no longer points north is really just trash.
great idea
offlineMember
I can't believe you had to kill so many of those birds, although I have never been in such a predicament.
was there truly no other alternative than destroying them?
did you eat them at least?? ;)
pennygirl
offlineMember
My neighbors used to shoot the pigeons that had a roost on the roof of their condo. When I asked them why, they tried to fob me off, saying it was 'necessary' and showed me the pigeon 'grave site' in the vacant lot across the street. Complete with a cross marking the spot. Apparently that made it OK.
Compass Rose
offlineMember
Cdpenne, objecting to chronic inebriates and ne'er-do-wells hanging out in a park near one's home doesn't necessarily equate to NIMBY PRICK. Nor does the objection necessarily have anything to do with freeloaders.
I'm not sure what you mean by "direct action charity." If by that you mean food banks and homeless shelters, I'm all in favor. But when people start throwing trash around public spaces and creating a nuisance, no.
It's so easy to cry NIMBYism instead of taking the time to understand where people are really coming from, isn't it?
And isn't it the very definition of NIMBYism to move into your house and then proceed to exterminate the creatures that made their homes there before you arrived?
Also, I think shooting birds is pretty fucked up.
Just sayin'.
Cate
offlineMember
Compass Rose,
No, that is not the definition of NIMBYism.
Not In My Back Yard. It is the action of people not willing to allow programs or services to be located in their neighborhood. It is an "anywhere but here" kind of mentality where people are looking out only for what benefits themselves rather then the societal good as a whole.
Compass Rose
offlineMember
My point was that NIMBYs are often also the type of people who move into an area and then try to change it.
Cate
offlineMember
Oh, I didn't get that. It is strange that people will choose to willingly move into a neighborhood and then try to change it. And we do have a lot of people who moved into the working person blue collar neighborhood of Ballard and are now trying to make it something different.
Pokerguy
offlineMember
I'm a NIMBY and proud of it. I pay a lot for my home and in taxes and I don't want the drunk, slovenly, unwashed masses crawling with lice and stinking of four loko ruining it.
danmonaghan
offlineMember
NIMBY! Waaa! Nimby! Waaa!
NORGE!!
Compass Rose
offlineMember
That's what I meant. And for the record, I don't like NIMBYs either.
I hope Ballard doesn't change too much. Its character is one of the reasons we moved here. I like and patronize a lot of the new businesses, but I love the old places, like the Viking, Hattie's, etc.
cdpenne
offlineMember
Right on Cue, Pokerguy, Right on Cue. You'd almost think it was planned. Poker likes to keep those N's and S's where they belong, along with the drunks of course no matter what color they may be.
You've stepped in a pile of shit here Confused Rose. But you're new so what the hell? You have commented on 7 topics 3 of which are directly concerned with the topic at hand. One of which you started. You also espouse the classic NIMBY PRICK line where you attempt to cast youself as less than a prick but still NIMBY
I am all for helping car campers/homeless people so that they can get back on their feet. I donate to the food bank and donated after I read the story on here about the man who was cleaning up Market Street.
What I object to are the people who are chronically hanging around for months on end and seem to be choosing homelessness as a lifestyle.
Next you'll be talking about how you have a firm handle on your bootstraps and how if you can then they should be able too.
I kill birds. Can you say hook line and sinker.
Pokerguy
offlineMember
Why on earth would you bring race into this?
There are plenty of white bums wandering around here also, at least I think they are white, you just need to wipe the layers of grime away to tell.
cdpenne
offlineMember
Well let's see Poker, do I have to remind you?
YOU have a 2K bill because of all the homeless bums, drunks, mexicans, and others who have no insurance, need to go to the hospital, then don't pay a dime for it. Who do you think those costs fall back on for all the ER visits? You can't get blood from a stone.
cdpenne
offlineMember
Wow, Know-it-all and exemplary altruism. You must really like me. I can tell you are a true interweb forum veteran by your razor sharp analysis of my character.
It would seem indeed that you don't pay much mind.
Compass Rose
offlineMember
I have no idea what your post is about ... by yeah, thanks for playing along.
Cate
offlineMember
Compass Rose - by any chance are you related to Briar Rose?
Jules
offlineMember
Public Service Announcement.
Re:feeding the birds etc. Please don't. There is an old lady who consistantly throws bags of bread out in front of my building "for the birds.". In fact she is providing a buffet for rats, possums and racoons. Knock It Off.
BTW, all the racoons carry racoon roundworm, fatal to animals AND humans.My friend's chicken died of it last week, and it was not pretty. It is 100% fatal. There is no treatment and no cure. It is carried in the urine and feces of racoons, which are...well, everywhere in Ballard. There have been 13 deaths in the US, mainly children. The parasite causes neurological damage and blindness before death. Good times!
So please, don't leave food out for "the birds" unless it is in racoon-proof feeders.
Thank you , and goodnight. You may now return to your previously scheduled squabble.
Jules
offlineMember
cate, I'm pretty sure that Compass Rose is NOT Briar Rose for the simple reason that the posts are made past 10 PM...and I know for a fact that Briar Rose gets up at O'Dark-Thirty, so is in bed far, far before 10PM.
Compass Rose
offlineMember
I take it Briar Rose is a poster here (I was wondering WTF she was referring to).
Nope. No relation. I certainly don't get up in the wee hours.
Cate
offlineMember
Briar Rose is another poster with a certain stylistic similarity to your postings. I happen to enjoy her postings but she is somewhat of a controversial character on the forum. Has a sharp pointed wit.
Compass Rose
offlineMember
"Somewhat controversial" - very diplomatic. :)
Honestly not related.
teigyr
offlineMember
Compass Rose, carry on :) So for the chronically homeless, what do you do? You continue to give them money? You allow them to make more (tax free, maybe) on a corner than actually working? For some people it is a choice and for me, I choose to support those who actually want to help themselves rather than abuse the system. It might be sucky to actually have to be at a job at 8am instead of whenever you want (as in the case of panhandlers) but jobs/references/benefits are a way to get up to where you want to be.
For some people a lot of unfortunate things happened and they are fighting to get back to where they were. For others they realize it's a way to scam the system. If you can do that, then why work?
OingoBoingo
offlineMember
cdpenne
A correction is in order.
Commendable you have read Shakespeare though your contextual inference addressed to Compass Rose for the ending verse of Sonnet XCIV convolutes the intent of the message. It reads
"For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds."
cdpenne
offlineMember
OB,
It is an allusion not a quote. And the line is also a book title. The message is completely clear - NIMBYS fester and stink.
Compass Rose
offlineMember
Teigyr, I'm not sure if your question was addressed to me, but I pretty much agree with you. I'd add that there are homeless people who aren't homeless by choice but are there because they're mentally ill, addicted or both. Some just don't have the wherewithal to move beyond homelessness. I feel really badly for those people. There's not enough help out there for the mentally ill, especially for those without insurance.
OingoBoingo
offlineMember
cdpenne
How about IYFY (in your front yard)? Complete and without ad hominums.
ynh98107
offlineMember
For every drunk vagrant that litters and were to get a litter violation tick, there will be a local Ballard church to pay off the violation, just like they do for all the over 72-hour parking tickets.
Pavlov would observe the more your feed them; the more garbage and junk trash stuffed van will appear; and then the rats and seagulls.
Visualize Ballard!
Cate
offlineMember
Out of curiosity, which Ballard church is paying off parking tickets?
cdpenne
offlineMember
Bums are intelligent, and have a powerful drive to return home. If you can reach them, they are easily caught in the dark, but removed bums cannot be released at any distance: They will come back unless they are established in a new home by "locking them in" until they raise babies in the new location.
There is no magic spray or device that can make bums just go away.
If the problem gets severe, consider calling in a NIMBY Squad to get rid of them for you.
You may not like the idea of shooting bums, but if you're serious about getting rid of bums, you should consider it. The lack of fear bums seem to exhibit around humans makes them easy targets, requiring little more than a small caliber rifle like a .22. An air rifle works really well also. Be prepared with a trash bag or the blood will cause a large mess. Since bums are an invasive species of human, and are considered pests in many states, laws usually do not restrict the extermination of bums. However, you may want to consult your local law enforcement center for information about firearms laws in your township or district. The direct control of bums with guns is particularly effective in rural areas where bum populations are lowest. Always use humane methods and do not cause pain.
Remember, don't hurt bums needlessly. They're living creatures.
If you can't beat them, employ them. Bum labor was one of the primary sources for cheap labor after the Great Depression in California. That's where all these bums came from! They escaped or were turned loose from farms, prisons, insane asylums, and forced labor camps. Bums are best employed when they are nearly full size and still resonably fit.
City bums are probably not the best to employee as they can build up resistances to coercion, and can potentially carry lethal weapons on their bodies, as well as high volumes of cheap booze. They usually will not work hard due to their poor eating habits.
eric
offlineMember
so, cd, when are you having the open house for the poor "bums" at your place? there must be something you could do at your home...
i'm serious - you are so passionate (annoying?) about this, i can only imagine how happy you'd feel to open up your home to these folks.
so, what are you going to do for them, and when?
cdpenne
offlineMember
Awww Crap! Someone is forcing Eric to read posts that annoy him again. Whoever is doing it KNOCK IT OFF!
That's 5 I think. I might have lost count.
pennygirl
offlineMember
eric has been quite grumpy recently.
Edog
offlineMember
Threads like this make me happy becuase it makes clear what idiots you all are and gives me just the daily affirmation I need to shake these winter blues.
pennygirl
offlineMember
Edog has been quite grumpy recently.
Edog
offlineMember
I know you are but what am I?
brown_eyes
offlineMember
Is it possible that the litter is the result of critters getting into the poorly designed garbage cans and/or the trays of food randomly left there by whoever does that?
I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want clean, safe parks and streets. I also sympathize with business owners who find that pan handlers and people with mental health and/or drug issues (homeless or not) hanging around are discouraging customers.
I think this shouting match really is about justice. Aristotle says that justice is giving people what they deserve. The purpose, the essential nature of the resource (park, housing, medicine, etc) should be considered in determining what is just in its use or distribution. The decision should be made that would best recognize that purpose and bring honor and admiration.
Gackpoid
offlineMember
A lot of posters around here tend to seem rather grumpy lately, penny. Sometimes I even get the distinct feeling that they don't like me.
Edog
offlineMember
I was at Ballard Commons today, and found no food related trash. I did see a guy with a 100 plus pound Rottweiler - off leash - who let his elephant take a sh*t and did not pick it up.
pennygirl
offlineMember
I think it might be the weather. Those first few snowflakes bring out the best in people, but once we see an inch or so the knives come out.
Edog
offlineMember
I've got very bad cabin feaver, but that has nothing to do with knives. I mean, all work and no play make Jack something something....
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