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Daily news for Seattle's Ballard neighborhood |
Mondoman
offlineMember
Sounds like there is at least an outside chance all of Obamacare (not just the individual mandate and associated requirements) will get thrown out by Diana Ross et al. What should WA state do in that case? Remember to include a practical funding mechanism with your idea.
Mondo suggests:
WA state passes Romneycare-like statewide plan with individual mandate, and subsidizes the lower-income purchasers by extending the state sales tax to all medical-related goods and services.
Pinupgrl76
offlineMember
Celebrate !
nwcitizen
offlineMember
1) At the State level join Health Care for All - Washington (www.healthcareforallwa.org)
• Lobby our Legislators to reintroduce the Washington Health Security Trust [HB 1096/SB 5609] as a way to remedy collapsing health care coverage in Washington state.
• Lobby our Congressional delegation to support the Sanders-Leahy Bill, S. 73/HR 439 The "State Leadership in Health Care Act," which eliminates the prohibition on state experimentation with universal plans before 2017.
• Lobby our Congressional delegation to support the American Health Security Act of 2011, H.R.1200/S.915.
• Lobby our Legislators to send a memorial to Congress to allow state experimentation with universal plans before 2017.
2) At the national level join the Western Washington chapter of Physicians for a National Health Program (www.pnhpwesternwashington.org)
Cate
onlineMember
Secede from the union, merge with British Columbia.
Edog
offlineMember
The simple answer is to expand the age for medicare, and start from there as universal care.
People are pissed and stressed. Employers want to dump their plans. This is the fastest remedy, not something that phases in. The simplest message in this climate is the only thing left to try and most likely to succeed legislatively. Infact the singular problem with the law before the court is that its too complicated to explain.
Mondoman
offlineMember
Edog - and what's the funding source?
Cate - I think the costs for everyone to update their spellcheckers and to relearn how to pronounce "been", "sorry" and so on might exceed the health care benefits! Not to mention, we already shot down a state/provincial income tax, so BC might not happily accept us.
nw - nice specifics (I'll have to look them up to find out what they mean); do they include funding as well?
Oly
offlineMember
Invade Canada. Put their doctors into slavery and ship them to the us to treat the poor without health insurance.
And take their bud.
charliecooper
offlineMember
For a state to implement something like RomneyCare\ObamaCare would be legal. (RomneyCare hasn't been able to sustain itself without Federal money.)
Remove the insurance companies and prevent massive lawsuits.
Companies will charge too much for medical equipment and medical supplies. We will need to create local medical companies or be a part of a multi-state purchasing group to try to reduce cost.
You would need a new investigative branch of the State government for medical fraud, misconduct, and negligence.
Only increased taxes could pay for it.
Sunset9
offlineMember
Is there something I'm missing? Over and over again I hear the GOP candidates say "Do you want to get rid of Obama care?" to be met with thunderous applause when as far as I can tell the only things to have changed at this point are dependents can stay on their parents policies up til age 26 and the medicare Rx doughnut hole has closed. Is there some other sweeping change that I'm not aware of because it hasn't affected me?
Also it seems like those against it say they don't want to have the government control their healthcare when in fact we'd all still be covered by private health insurance (which because of the individual mandate we'll be required to have) but you still can choose your insurance provider either through work or through bundled purchasing. But if the individual mandate gets shut down they'll have to head towards universal coverage (ie government providing the health care) which is what those against Obamacare don't want.
I think I am fairly well informed but I am obviously missing what is perceived as the bad part of the plan.
onederfullone
offlineMember
Sunset9, yes, there is.
If you expect GOP candidates to fix this, good luck. If you think what the Democrats did to stand up, good luck.
If you expect anyone leading this state to fix it, again, good luck.
I find it a bit ridiculous for anyone to suggest this state, over 6 billion in debt, can even begin to address uninsured folks.
I don't see it happening.
NW, you've always got a lot of solid examples of how government can heal irresponsibility. Too bad the leader of responsibility in this state is our government.
I'd suggest they lead by example.
Oooops, I can see they are certainly doing that.
Major fail.
Sunset9
offlineMember
So onederful what is the part I am missing --- I don't expect the GOP to improve the healthcare situation, I just can't figure out what (if anything) has fundamentally changed in people's day to day healthcare that makes people react with rabid applause at the idea of getting rid of Obamacare.
It almost makes me think that nothing has changed it's still the same runaround with insurance and pre existing conditions and co-pays etc that people have never liked but the GOP is making uninformed people think that now it's because of Obamacare.
But they wouldn't try to mislead voters would they?
onederfullone
offlineMember
More has changed than you notice, or mention. Costs are out of control as it is, and are going to increase despite a nearly two trillion (current estimate) taxpayer burden.
The number one impediment to acceptable, even desirable levels of coverage for everyone is out of control costs. Despite the continued insistence that costs can or will decrease under ObamaCare, nothing could be further from the truth. The number two impediment is this mind-set that everyone should be individually required to purchase the exact same policy, filled with all manner of unnecessary and unwanted coverage.
Competition is gone. Choice is gone. Torte reform is absent still. The only thing Obama Care would do to attempt cost control is rationing of services. I'm not the least bit surprised that folks would rather ignore how flawed Obama Care is.
Back to this state. I've seen nothing that would lead me to believe that we'd end up with anything but a mini version of Obama Care, with exactly the same level of incompetence and financially unsustainable gimmicks. It's painfully obvious to me.
Perhaps if they wrap it all in a pretty bow, it will look even more like a gift...
Edog
offlineMember
Cost are out of control because the free market fails to insure the poor, or people who choose not to buy insurance, and that creates a free rider problem where the rest of us have to bear the costs of their acute health problems. Problems, that would cost far less to manage if the person has access to medical care all along.
Again the naivete in the nearly religious belief that the free market solves everything is b*tch slapped by the invisible hand.
nwcitizen
offlineMember
"Despite the continued insistence that costs can or will decrease under ObamaCare, nothing could be further from the truth."
I tend to agree with this. Obamacare will not control costs and private insurers will continue to charge 20-30% over the cost of actual healthcare delivery. I haven't heard that there will be any real cost controls imposed. That, in my opinion, is the Achilles heel of the legislation.
As I understand it, one of the arguments in favor of single payer health insurance is that, as with Medicare, costs can be controlled by virtue of the fact that the single insurer would define a set of standard healthcare practices and negotiate with providers the allowable charges for those services. The money saved by cutting out the middle man for-profit insurers is that the money that would have gone to fund their profits can be redirected to fund coverage for everyone in Washington State.
For anyone who seriously wishes to explore an alternative to the current wasteful and inadequate health insurance system we currently have, I recommend spending some time going over the Washington Health Security Trust legislation. Details can be found at:
www.healthcareforallwa.org (click on "WA Health Security Trust Proposal" at the top of the page)
Cougar Bob
offlineMember
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) is the poster child for Obama's unwillingness to go for the fence politically. He could've fought for the single payer (i.e.; the expand Medicare to all option). Instead he naively caved to GOP and insurance industry demands. We ended up with the half-baked POS we have now.
The free market only works when everybody is playing by the rules. That has never happened and never will happen. There needs to be some level of regulation.
Adam Smith was in favor of regulation:
http://adamsmithslostlegacy.blogspot.com/2010/03/adam-smith-on-banking-regulation.html
"Some so-called “free-market” ideologues, who oppose all regulation whatsoever, should recognize, as Smith did (he was no ideologue), that the freedom of the market works best, when protected by laws of justice and when its participants exercise a high degree of prudence in their conduct before they can ruin it for everybody else."
onederfullone
offlineMember
When will this state 'excercise a high degree of prudence'?
Look at public education, for example. You really want to extend state control over what we get, and what we pay for it, to health care as well?
Yep, simply brilliant. /sarcasm
Edog, monopolies based on state borders is not competition, sorry. You need to put the blame for costs where it belongs.
Solid hand smacks invisible straw man.
pennygirl
offlineMember
1der...I have a favor to ask of you off the forum. Cheers.
(Sorry for going off topic)
onederfullone
offlineMember
Okay, e-mail?
pennygirl
offlineMember
Yes. Do you have it?
onederfullone
offlineMember
I can't find it. Sorry, I know I had it...
try onederfulone at kinda like yippee dot the usual.
I'm sure to get it hacked as well before long ;-/
pennygirl
offlineMember
Done.
onederfullone
offlineMember
oops, my handle, typo'd a missing l...sorry
pennygirl
offlineMember
Done #2. :-)
Cougar Bob
offlineMember
/sarcasm
Maybe Paul Ryan could have Fedex deliver 300 million fishing poles and 300 million copies of Atlas Shrugged to everybody in the country (English only please). The enclosed personal note could be something warm and cheery like "Greetings Citizens, I got mine and you all can go facebook yourself."
Edog
offlineMember
Its official, the law will stand. Our Nations Number One Kenyan Born Muslim in Cheif, Mr. Hopey Changey just said it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/02/barack-obama-supreme-court-health-care_n_1397548.html
How do you like that Onder? I was trying to find a voice you would like to break the bad news to you.
onederfullone
offlineMember
you placed your /sarcasm in the wrong location.
onederfullone
offlineMember
Yeah, edog, it's win-win for you. After all, Obama said it, it must be so. If it isn't, it's nothing but a political right-winger court over-reaching yet again.
Gotta love those odds...
Edog
offlineMember
Well the healthcare crisis in this country is pretty serious, so its not exactly win win, but if the court does strike this down, there is a massive minefield left for GOP.
cdpenne
offlineMember
I believe you might have jumped the gun Edog. There hasn't been any word from the court yet. Are we to believe that Obama has some inside information? Or am I just completely misreading your post? While I think Obama may be right, and the court may not overturn the law, it's still a maybe?
Edog
offlineMember
I see it was a mistake not to use my sarcasm tags.
onederfullone
offlineMember
if the court does strike this down, there is a massive minefield left for GOP.
Yep. It's interesting how an entire party can leave a very large and rank pile of poo in the middle of the room, but if anyone points it out, they become responsible for it all...
Like I said, win-win. It's almost like the game is fixed...
cdpenne
offlineMember
Yep, I misread your post.
On the bright side we know who to ask for favors.
Edog
offlineMember
Hopey Changey?
onederfullone
offlineMember
Yeah.
cdpenne
offlineMember
If we were to continue having children and if we had a boy, I just might name him Hopey Changey, but no, that's no who I meant.
Edog
offlineMember
I don't care if its a boy or a girl, my next child will be named "Our Nations Number One Kenyan Born Muslim in Cheif"
onederfullone
offlineMember
If we were to continue having children and if we had a boy, I just might name him Hopey Changey,
...I'd suggest Hopey Changey Himself...but that's just me...
edog, I'd shorten it to "Our nations worst one-termer ever."...but that's just me.
Back on topic, I suggest you keep making predictions about ObamaCare, it's riveting.
/sarcasm
anotherballardite
offlineMember
Edog - your good sense and intelligent comments seem quite wasted here.
Edog
offlineMember
Thats odd, becuase I am also wasted where I am here.
onederfullone
offlineMember
I would agree. edog usaully seems quite wasted here ;-p
pennygirl
offlineMember
Completely tanked.
Cougar Bob
offlineMember
Santorum thought he was Nicaraguan born.........slip of the tongue I guess.
ballardmike
offlineMember
First of all... let's stop with the "OBAMA-CARE" moniker. It's a national health care proposal.
BriarRose
offlineMember
I recommend that everyone drop his or her insurance and just start using the ER. After all the gopes tell us there is already healthcare for anyone who needs it right? No one is ever turned away right? Why are we paying these premiums?
onederfullone
offlineMember
mike, Obama is embracing it's slang title, fwiw.
Yes, Briar, why pay twice for what you could get for free?
Because most of us have assets, real names, addresses. duh.
You'd make a good community organizer...
great idea
offlineMember
briar + 1
oneder = idiot
business as usual
onederfullone
offlineMember
damn. dissed by a true genius.../sarcasm
cdpenne
offlineMember
Yeah you want to be careful there GI, Oneder has connections.
landontwofeet
offlineMember
What to do? Celebrate that our checks and balances are working. Then demand an intelligent, bipartisan, constitutional solution.
great idea
offlineMember
"you want to be careful there GI, Oneder has connections"
really? he doesn't even know pennygirl's email address as noted above.
when someone says, "(Obama) Our nations worst one-termer ever", there's a very good chance that person is an idiot.
worst, ever? were you living in a cave the first 8 years of this millenium?
I'll bet oneder's hero is Useless Grant.
onederfullone
offlineMember
Nope, that was our nations worst two-termer ever. Pay attention GI.
And you bet wrong.
Ballardemician
offlineMember
I for one am bummed that the national healthcare proposal is being closely contested. It would have provided lower cost alternatives for people looking to get off the state's teat (aka out of useless state jobs) into entrepreneurial enterprise. It sounds counterintuitive that a more "socialist" health system would lead to more free-enterprise, but in some places a low cost national health system works well to prompt workers out of state jobs they are squatting in solely for the healthcare. Here if you start out a teacher or city clerk the barrier to leaving for private consultancy, a retail venture, etc is enormous -- basically no healthcare for you or your family. Many would risk a venture but for the specter of sickness or injury without medical help.
So untold public sector workers squat in positions, many of which would otherwise not be refilled if they quit, instead of entering the private economy. If we thought about our workforce as infrastructure and universal healthcare as an improvement to it instead of a handout for the lazy and unworthy then we might make some real progress toward long term economic stability.
The whole Supreme Court process is very interesting though - a lesson in how the feds are mandated to abide enumerated powers. The arguments around the commerce clause and federalism are compelling. I know a few people who've argued before the Supreme Court and by all reports its the lawyering equivalent of the Superbowl. Go team progress!
nwcitizen
offlineMember
Someone asked how a universal healthcare plan might be funded. Here is one answer:
"Gerald Friedman, professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, offers a graphic look at the costs and revenue possibilities of a national single-payer health care plan."
http://www.dollarsandsense.org/
or, if you prefer,
http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2012/0312friedman.pdf
A key point that the author makes is "With $570 billion in savings on administration and monopoly profits, a single-payer system would reduce dramatically the burden of
health care costs on the United States economy. Over time, furthermore, a single-payer system would allow us to slow the growth in health-care spending."
Now to resume verbal sparring...
Sunset9
offlineMember
1der still your aren't answering my qustion you are in fact proving my point -- what has healthcare reform/national health care proposal/Obama-care implemented that has changed the day to day access/affordability to health care to cause the GOP crowds to cheer when the Lego Man or the Frothy One say "Are you tired of Obama care?".
Yes costs are out of control, but that isn't a result of healthcare reform that's same as it ever was. Can you point to one thing that has been implemented that people could be "sick of"?
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