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NBR-only read if you have ever truly bonded with a non human animal

(86 posts)

Started 5 months ago by PDaddymom
Latest reply from lifeisamazing

PDaddymom

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This is intense devotion (from an intense person)...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fiona-apple-cancels-tour-care-000300964.html;_ylt=Awrj4itmVq1Qjh0AVBFXNyoA;_ylc=X3IDMgRjc3JjcHZpZAM4TG5udlVvR2RUQXEuMDFxVUZ0SHdnTVNxb2Z4TFZDdFZWNEFDSEpIBGZyA2ZwLXR0cy03MDEEZnIyA3NnLWdhYwRuX2dwcwMxBG9yaWdpbgNzcnAEcG9zAzEEcHFzdHIDZmlvbmEgYXBwbGUgY2FuY2VscyB0b3VyBHF1ZXJ5A2Zpb25hIGFwcGxlIGNhbmNlbHMgdG91cgRzYWMDMQRzYW8DMQR2dGVzdGlkA1NNRTE0NQ--?rnd=73012124706957827234

Posted 5 months ago #
pennygirl

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Thank you so much for posting this PDaddymom. Unconditional love.

Posted 5 months ago #
teigyr

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Very wonderful and sad too. Good for her for doing the right thing.

Posted 5 months ago #
Nora Bell

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Exactly. Unconditional love, on both sides for once. Good on her.

Posted 5 months ago #
onederfullone

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Very sad for her, but so very grounded she is. Plus +1 seems inadequate. But we measure a good life in small ways.

[edit] figured my Waldo needs more presence today.

Posted 5 months ago #
PDaddymom

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1der - Waldo looks very present :-) He and my PDaddy are "brothers in the orange". Although Payton is more of a buff rather than orange he certainly has the strong and intelligent personality of an orange tabby!

Posted 5 months ago #
onederfullone

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You are blessed, mum. As am I.

Posted 5 months ago #
PlantLover

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I always did like Fiona Apple.

"Be kind to me, or treat me mean
I'll make the most of it - I am an extraordinary machine!"

Come to think of it, that fits that other thread about meanness too.

Posted 5 months ago #
VeganBiker

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PDaddymom - thanks for posting that link. I have tears on my cheeks now. My boy is 11+ and I can relate to her decision.

Posted 5 months ago #
gordy

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Way too close to what happened here. I had to say goodbye to two dog companions this summer. One from liver disease, the other had Addisons for many years and passed away from old age and renal disease. Ms. Apple is making a very wise decision to stay with Janet right now.

Posted 5 months ago #
Silver

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PDaddymom - thank you for posting.

Gordy - I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. Hang in there.

Posted 5 months ago #
Silver

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Double post.

Posted 5 months ago #
Pokerguy

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I think it is silly and kind of unbalanced. It is also an easy thing to do when you have millions in the bank.

Posted 5 months ago #
Silver

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My uncle was in town the day I had to have my cat put to sleep. He couldn't understand why I didn't want to go out to dinner. Some of us get very attached to our pets.

Posted 5 months ago #
Pokerguy

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The Last Battle

If it should be that I grow frail and weak,
And pain should keep me from my sleep,
Then will you do what must be done,
For this, the last battle, can't be won.

You will be sad I understand,
But don't let grief then stay your hand,
For on this day, more than the rest,
Your love and friendship must stand the test.

We have had so many happy years,
You wouldn't want me to suffer so.
When the time comes, please, let me go.

Take me to where to my needs they'll tend,
Only, stay with me till the end

And hold me firm and speak to me,
Until my eyes no longer see.
I know in time you will agree,
It is a kindness you do to me.

Although my tail its last has waved,
From pain and suffering I have been saved.

Don't grieve that it must be you,
Who has to decide this thing to do;
We've been so close,we two, these years,
Don't let your heart hold any tears.

Author Unknown

Posted 5 months ago #
pennygirl

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It isn't silly or unbalanced Poker. It just depends if you have ever had a pet that provides you with unconditional love. If you had, then you would totally understand why she did what she did.

Edit: I am aware of that poem, but she is choosing to spend the last few days/months with Janet. She isn't trying to prolong anything - just have the time together.

Posted 5 months ago #
SmartsyArtsy

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Wow. She is so wise and loving. Thank you for posting. My day ends in tears of not sadness, but being uplifted.

Posted 5 months ago #
great idea

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+ 1 poker.

I didn't want to say anything so as to be villafied. I love animals more than people in general, but it really seems like she is keeping this animal alive for her own need.

Posted 5 months ago #
great idea

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I think many of us love our pets dearly and would sacrifice the world, but cancelling a tour when you're already wealthy doesn't seem as big a deal as one of you taking off a day or two of work to be with your companion.

interesting that her dog has Addison's disease. someone pointed out to me on another thread that JFK also suffered this ailment. I find it fascinating that humans and canines can have similar bodily disfunctions.

Posted 5 months ago #
Pokerguy

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Penny- I lost my golden a few years ago. He was the best dog anyone could ever have. Last year I happened on a video of him running in the snow that I found on an old memory card. I had never seen it and forgotten it existed. It was like he was there with me and I cried like a baby I missed him so much.

It doesn't change the fact that we all have real life responsibilities, and to forgo those for your pet is to me unbalanced. It also isn't fair to her fans that were anticipating seeing her in concert, she owes everything to them and they deserve more.

Posted 5 months ago #
pennygirl

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Where does it say anything about her keeping Janet alive? If she is suffering from Addisons and close to the end (Gordy might be able to shed some light on this) there probably isn't anything that Ms. Apple can do.

Edit (I am doing a lot of this tonight): Poker - I know that. But at the same time I can see why she did it. For one, I wouldn't be able to concentrate on anything if my pup(s) was/were sick, and I would never forgive myself if I wasn't there when the eventual happened. Given what she does, wouldn't it be better just to postpone the shows? It seems like she fully intends to honor the tickets.

Posted 5 months ago #
Pokerguy

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I don't think it is as easy as postponing to a later time. She broke commitments to thousands of people. To be so wrapped up in your pet that you can't function is to me unbalanced

Posted 5 months ago #
pennygirl

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Bands postpone all the time. It's usually something as useless as an in-house argument or a broken toenail. I am sure that her fans (considering the type of artist she is) will understand.

Or maybe she was just informed that she can't travel south of the border due to that drug bust a few weeks ago?!!!

Posted 5 months ago #
great idea

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interesting side note, on wikipedia, they suggest Osama Bin Laden had Addison's disease also.

was it a Mexican tour she cancelled?

I just read 'world tour' and was glad she wasn't trying to travel with Janet since that really stresses out canines w/ this disorder.

Posted 5 months ago #
Cate

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It seems that her dog, her Janet, is her family. She calls Janet her sister, her child, her mother. To take time off to be with a dying family member is something many of us would do were it possible. And I wonder, as an artist, would she be able to give the type of performance her audience deserves during this time?

Posted 5 months ago #
Pokerguy

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Cate- you prove my point. To call your dog your sister, child, mother, is unbalanced.

Posted 5 months ago #
great idea

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oddly, I believe her mother is still alive. and she has a sister, too.

Posted 5 months ago #
Cate

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Relationships and love are strange Pokerguy. There clearly is something that she finds with her dog that she doesn't elsewhere, perhaps the lack of the judgement and expectations that people place on her. I can understand a well-known artist having a pet companion be that important to them.

Posted 5 months ago #
lifeisamazing

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There are those that feel that their pets are their family, there are those that don't. I'm one that does.
Pokerguy, I'm sorry about your pup. Isn't it amazing how you can loose someone, carry on your life then something brings up all the feelings and there it is again.
Gordy and Silver, I'm sorry for your losses.

Posted 5 months ago #
Ballardemician

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I read the thread title as: NBR-only read if you have ever truly boned with a non human animal

And then I clicked on it. But I swear that's not the case -- just interested in what the hell's wrong with the rest of you.

Posted 5 months ago #
jburgh

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duplicate, sorry

Posted 5 months ago #
jburgh

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GI - we have a Corgi with the canine equivalent of ALS (Lou Gehrig's). It is called degenerative myelopathy. He no longer walks on his own, but is happy, has a good appetite, loves to play with toys, and wants to be with his people.

Fiona Apple's letter struck close to home for me. I wouldn't think of "keeping the dog alive" and I don't believe that was what she wanted to do, either. Were I in the same position financially as she is, and the time was close, I'd take a leave of absence too. When you are a caregiver of an animal or human with a chronic debilitating disease, the bond you develop is even stronger. Some people value their relationships with their pets as much as those with humans.

Posted 5 months ago #
Compass Rose

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Thanks for posting the link. I can totally understand why she made that choice and would need to be there in her beloved pet's last moments. If I was in that position, I can't imagine being anywhere else.

Posted 5 months ago #
PlantLover

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As it turns out, one of my cats took a bad turn yesterday and his kidney failure may be reaching a critical stage. I am grateful that I have these few days off to hang out with him and let him know I love him. If the lab tests taken this morning come back with bad results, I am going to work from home as much as possible in the coming days.

So, yeah, I totally respect her priorities.

Posted 5 months ago #
PlantLover

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Well, two minutes after I typed that the vet called and said his creatine levels were through the roof. I just ran him back up to Cats Exclusive where he is going to spend the next few days getting an IV and critical care. So, double yeah, I get why Apple is doing it. Her fans will get to hear her later. It is just music, not the life of a treasured family member. Relationships, even those with non-humans, are what make life enjoyable.

Posted 5 months ago #
lifeisamazing

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Plant, my best thoughts are with you and your cat. I'm so sorry. Scary place to be.

Posted 5 months ago #
PlantLover

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Thanks, LIA. We went and visited him yesterday afternoon and he was really happy to see us and to get brushed and loved. The vet called this am and said he was doing well and eating. Hopefully he can come home tomorrow. He will have to have lots of meds and we will probably have to do sub-cutaneous fluid injections, but if he can be back to his happy self for even a little while it is well worth it. I was so scared he would not make it through the weekend...

And yes, Pokerguy, I have been in the position of having to make that difficult decision to end a pet's suffering. A wise vet once told me that I would know when that time had come - when they were not enjoying life, playing, purring, eating, etc. and there was nothing left to be done for them. I feel like I have known when that is - every time. As soon as they reach it, I have taken them to the vet that last time (or one amazing time, the vet came to our house so she could die peacefully in the garden she had roamed her whole life).

Posted 5 months ago #
PDaddymom

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Plant - I am so sorry you are having to go through this. It is one of the difficult parts of loving. Be strong, follow your gut and love and enjoy the heck out of your boy. What is his name by the way? It is hard to really be sure when the time is right and in my case after the fact I have always felt like I hung on too long.

I knew there would be some who would not understand the level of devotion that Fiona Apple and others of us share for non human animals which is why I titled this thread the way I did. Some people have a very deep, primitive bond with other animals and feel maternal/nurturing towards them. And then there are those who love them but don't feel this deep of an attachment. Just as there are those who love and enjoy human children but perhaps don't feel that maternal tug to have their own. Bottom line for me is all living creatures should be treated with kindness and respect and if they are in need they should be put first :-)

Please keep us posted Plant - prayers coming your and kitty's way. {{{Hugs}}}

Posted 5 months ago #
lifeisamazing

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Pdad +

Plant, I'm so glad he is taking a turn for the better. Let us know when Happy Kitty is back home.

Posted 5 months ago #
gordy

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Plant, I hope your cat improves very quickly and has many more days to spend with you. The wise vet and PDaddymom are very correct. People may think they are being kind by telling a pet owner it is time, but that is something the owner needs to determine on their own. The pet will truly let you know-my two did.
The good news at this house is that we now have a puppy that is an absolute delight. I miss the late dogs very much and always will.

Posted 5 months ago #
PlantLover

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Thanks, everyone, for being so nice. It really was a pretty lousy holiday weekend for all of us - Zach (the sick kitty), his two siblings (who are very nervous around us right now and keep looking for Zach), and my husband and me. Fingers crossed that the blood tests they are taking tonight yield good results tomorrow and he can come home to us all. I have to say, Cats Exclusive is a bit of a drive and they are not inexpensive, but our cats get first rate care there.

I agree Pdad. If we take companion animals into our homes, they are a member of our families and should be treated as such.

Posted 5 months ago #
gracie

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Thanks for sharing. When it was obvious my sweet Nikki was slipping in health, the day I was to bring her into vet I took her to her beach that she loved, held her as long as I could & brought her in that afternoon. I held her as she slipped away & have a picture of her just before she died. Her look was like either "it's okay" or "what the hell am I doing in this place?" She had the sweetest thing - if I was down she seemed to know it and would get up on my lap, put one paw on each shoulder & then put her head next to my cheek. Unconditional love. It's been 7 months & I still miss her a lot.
And now with Pickles one day I thought don't become so attached to her because what if something happened, I would be devastated. I realized instantly it was too late. We are so bonded. She's my little sidekick, goes in the car with me and when I leave in the morning for work she meows at the door (breaks my heart) but when I come home she greets me at the door meowing as I walk up the walkway. (she knows the sound of my car parking!) And if someone wants to pet her that she's not sure of, she looks up at me like a kid going "mommy" and puts her little front legs out like a kid wanting to be picked up & will jump up onto me if i don't pick her up. As many have said, it's the unconditional love.

Posted 5 months ago #
teigyr

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"It is hard to really be sure when the time is right and in my case after the fact I have always felt like I hung on too long."

Very true. We had to make that decision this weekend.

PlantLover, it sounds like Zach is in good hands, I hope he is able to come home today.

Posted 5 months ago #
gracie

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So sorry, teigyr. It is a very hard decision to make but being a true lover of your pet, you know not to hold on for yourself but to do what is best for your pet.

Posted 5 months ago #
PlantLover

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I am so sorry, teigyr. It sounds like you had a pretty awful weekend too.

We are going to pick Zach up this afternoon, but the numbers still are not good. We will continue to do the meds and the fluids at home and see if he improves. His vet says he acts like he is not sick anymore, and the numbers are better than when he went in, so maybe we can keep him improving. Keep your fingers crossed for him.

Posted 5 months ago #
PDaddymom

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tiegyr - oh so sorry my friend - which kid was it?

Plant - check in when you can when you get Zach home. Will you be giving him sub Q fluids? I did that with one of my kitties (every other day) and it kept her comfortable. If you would be doing this and haven't done it before and would like support or assistance, please email me at lynnie5510 at yahoo.

Posted 5 months ago #
Chef Wahoo

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Teigyr, I am so, so sorry. We've been there, all to recently, and it's just such a tough thing to go through. Even in past when I felt confident I had made the call(s) in time, I always had doubt. It's little consolation, but I hope you know that you did the very best you could.

Plant Lover, good luck with Zach. Fluids can do wonders, although it's not always easy to administer them, so I will keep you in my thoughts as well.

Posted 5 months ago #
jburgh

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PlantLover, I'm so glad Zach has improved. I've been in your place and wanted to write that administering the fluids is easy. You just need 2 pairs of hands, one to do the infusion, and the other to hold the cat. We had to do this twice for our dear departed Siamese, 30 days in a row and that flushed him out so he was fine for 3 more years.

Teigyr, sorry to hear about your pet, they sure tear off a part of your hear when they go.

Posted 5 months ago #
teigyr

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That sounds encouraging, PlantLover. I have heard that fluids are easy to do and you can save a lot of money by doing it yourself. Another thing we've done with both Juno and other cats who have needed fluids, was to add water to their canned food. It helps to supplement the other fluids going in.

Thanks, everyone. Was a pretty tiring weekend. One cat keeps looking for her, the others are subdued. Earlier today I kept thinking it might have been a dream :(

Posted 5 months ago #
gordy

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Yeah! Great news about Zach. He will probably feel even better once he is back to his normal home environment.

A few years ago I saw a lady walking a slow moving dog across the street. The lady stopped, pet the dog and was crying very hard. I came over and asked if she was all right. This was her final walk with the dog, whom she'd had for years. After the walk they were going to the vets and she was saying the final goodbye. There are things like this in life that you witness and never ever forget. I hope the lady was able to adopt another dog later, she obviously was a very responsible and loving owner.

Posted 5 months ago #
Cate

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teigyr - I am so sorry. They leave a hole in the heart when they go. I still daily miss the one in my avatar even though I have my Sami and Nellie curled on the bed with me.
Plantlover - sending good thoughts Zach's way. I did sub-Q fluids for a kitty for a year, after the first two he would lie down and patiently wait without a fuss.

Posted 5 months ago #
teigyr

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gordy, so sad. We kind of tried to do the same thing though it was cat-style. After the race (Seattle Marathon was sunday) we watched TV and put her on our laps with the electric blanket under her. We gave her treats -- due to her illness she had only had hypoallergenic food for so long and no doubt it was boring. Thank you too, Cate. There are still cats here, which is good. We also had pre-made plans to donate time with a cat rescue organization in the next few weeks so it will be another way to honor strays in her honor. Oh and Chef Wahoo and jburgh, thank you too. Yeah, there is always that question and then a degree of guilt.

Now to happier topics. I hope Zach is home now? You never know with the kidney problems, I've known cats who have survived for a long time. If it seems like he's feeling better, that is so positive.

Posted 5 months ago #
PlantLover

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I really appreciate the concern and the voices of encouragement from those who have been through this. Zach is home and very glad to be here. The other two cats have been looking for him the last few days and though I was worried, aside from one catty comment from his brother, they were both like "oh - there you are!" No hissing or slapping. He slept with us and got lots of petting during the night. He purred a lot.

He is not eating as much as I would like, but he is eating some. He has a huge number of meds to take for anemia, vitamins, antibiotics, etc. Zach doesn't not like pill pockets, so it is the old-fashioned way and he is quite sure that the procedure violates his rights.

I was thinking the fluids thing would be no big deal because his brother gets insulin shots twice a day. I did not realize that the fluid needle would be so huge compared to the insulin. I guess is makes sense given the relative volume of fluids. When the vet tech showed us how to do it it obviously hurt when it went in and the fluids made him uncomfortable. We are going to do it for the first time tonight. I appreciate the encouragement from so many who have done it. I can't imagine him lying down and taking it without a fuss, but we shall see. We are watering down the food too. Anything to get fluids back in him.

He will be going back on Saturday for a check up. I hope we can keep driving those numbers down.

Posted 5 months ago #
crownhiller

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Oh man - I've been reading this thread and trying hard not to think about the day when one of my cats goes down this road - I will be a true basket case that's for sure.

I came to pet ownership very late in life so I can kinda understand why some don't get the deep bond that can happen between an animal and a human. I'm sitting here typing with both cats on my lap, as they are every morning and truly can't imagine my world without them anymore. We have one that is currently trying our patience - she's taken to chewing on power cords and light switches - the vet is running blood tests to see if it's something organic and not just general pestiness ;o) - but as annoyed as she makes me right now - I love her 3 times as much...aiyiyi!!

Teigyr - so sorry to hear about your cat - I know you've talked about that one before - you've gone above and beyond what many would do - she was a lucky girl.

Plant - glad he's home with you - fingers crossed he'll turn the corner even more.

Posted 5 months ago #
gordy

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Plant-the first time is the hardest. I've had to give IV saline to my dogs as well as Mom's cat, after vet instruction You will do fine! Get well stat Zach!

Posted 5 months ago #
gordy

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Plant-the first time is the hardest. I've had to give IV saline to my dogs as well as Mom's cat, after vet instruction You will do fine! Get well stat Zach!

Posted 5 months ago #
Nutmeg

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I've done the fluids thing. The cat was oldish, 13 years, so he adapted to the procedure, although he did start with an agreeable personality. One useful thing is to try to hang the fluids as high as possible. This way gravity helps you -- the water flows much faster. We put a hook on the end of a tube which was high enough to reach the ceiling. We were able to cut down the time from about 4 minutes to 2 minutes. It also depends on how big the bore of the needle is.

The cat did really well on fluids for more than a year. He ended up dying of cancer, not of kidney disease. Some of my friends had cats that lived for 5 years with fluids.

If you're going to give a lot of fluids, I think vets charge too much for the bags. Try to get them elsewhere. Here's an old link I have:
http://www.zzcat.com/CRF/supplies/index.html
I don't know if all the info is still valid.

Posted 5 months ago #
Chef Wahoo

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Plant Lover, yes those needles seem huge. They can give you a smaller bore needle, but IIRC that will means the fluid might take a little longer to infuse. I'd ask the vet, because it might be worth it if it hurts less (thinner needles are always more comfortable) and is easier to insert.

Obviously, many people can administer fluids to their cats with little difficulty, and I hope you can do the same. We've had two kitties who need fluids, one docile and sweet, and one who became very fractious and combative. He tried to kill a vet once, so he was a bit more difficult than most housecats. But as other people here have mentioned, fluids can make such a difference. I know they can make humans feel much better if they're even slightly dehydrated.

Good luck with the continued violation of his civil rights. They sometimes get used to that too! Oh, I don't know if your kitty likes human food, but we recently had a kitty with cancer who loved freshly roasted chicken. He didn't want it once it had entered the fridge, but he'd wait by the oven if he smelled (plain, unseasoned) chicken thighs baking, or sat beneath my feet if we happened to bring home a rotisserie chicken. He'd always been a picky eater, but between his two approved Fancy Feast varieties and the chicken, at least we could usually get him to eat something.

He wouldn't eat Pill Pockets either. However, the other, heavier kitties who were perfectly healthy were completely obsessed with them.

Posted 5 months ago #
teigyr

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None of our cats care for pill pockets but what I do is tear off a small piece of it (our cat drugs are small) and wrap the bit of pill pocket around the pill then smush it into a yummy treat. The pill stays in there and the amount of pill pocket is nominal.

Plant (or anyone else), I do have two small containers of baby food, meat variety. I was going to try it but never got the chance. It's yours if you want it. I also used/infused tuna juice onto some of her pills, which made it easier. Lastly, our vet gave us medication to stimulate her appetite. I don't recall the name (is at home) and know I can't pass off cat drugs but drugs like that exist and a small amount can reset the cat's appetite.

Posted 5 months ago #
pennygirl

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I am so sorry Teigyr. I don't know what else to say other than you are a great person who goes above and beyond. Bless you.

Posted 5 months ago #

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NBR-only read if you have ever truly bonded with a non human animal

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