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Really??? Little kids? You're that Facebooked up that you kill kids?????

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Started 5 months ago by BuffaloHawk
Latest reply from phoo

BuffaloHawk

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My daughter is in her kindergarden class right now and I can't focus on anything and want to throw up.

Posted 5 months ago #
Edog

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What did you expect? The NRA has made gun policy the new third rail of american politics. They won, get used to it!

Posted 5 months ago #
Westcoastmom

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I know how you feel, my thoughts & prayers go out to the families and children whose lives are irreparably changed by the tragedy in Connecticut.

Posted 5 months ago #
angeline

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Feeling chilled to the bone right now after seeing the update. I saw an earlier headline that only said the gunman was dead and adults injured, which was bad enough.

The school only goes through the 4th grade. Unbelievable.

Posted 5 months ago #
gracie

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I wanted to post this but was raked over the coals putting things like this here in the past. And Buffalo, I actually thought of you & your little mini me when I heard this. I know she will get an extra big hug when you see her.
It sickens me - why little ones? One report said shooter had a child in school there. Wonder if this A-hole's "motive" was because his child had either been bullied, disciplined and expelled.
I totally feel for all the parents and the little ones, teachers involved in this horrible tragedy.

Posted 5 months ago #
Edog

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This never would have happened if those kids had been carrying!

Posted 5 months ago #
Edog

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And if you find that offensive, get over it. There are people out there who believe that sh*t.

Posted 5 months ago #
gracie

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Really? A 5 year old carrying a gun? I don't think even those idiots would think someone that young should be carrying a gun.

Posted 5 months ago #
PlantLover

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I went to the KOMO website to see if there was more info. In addition to this story, there was one about Cafe Racer holding a benefit for the families of those killed in that mass shooting, and a story about the mall in Oregon reopening after the mass shooting earlier this week. Then there is the story about the governor of Colorado saying it is time to revisit gun laws after the Denver theater shooting. This is all so very messed up.

Posted 5 months ago #
anotherballardite

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Check this out - apparently the consensus on when to let your kid begin to handle an unloaded gun is age 2.

http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/showthread.php?401965-What-age-to-start-them-shooting

By 5 - its a loaded weapon.

Posted 5 months ago #
onederfullone

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"What did you expect? The NRA has made gun policy the new third rail of American politics. They won, get used to it!"

Let's talk, for moment, about the first rail of liberal politics.

1.21 million (reported dead by CDC, in America.), which is approximately 40,000 classrooms last year. Most Blue states don't even report via required CDC filings.

So, it's probably more like 100,000 classrooms.

I mourn for all, fwiw.

Deciding that guns are the reason for, or selected purpose of, unwarranted, inexcusable deaths would compel me to check traffic data next.

Don't make me put you all down, it is a sad day, again.

We should be used to it.

Posted 5 months ago #
gracie

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All I can say is RIDICULOUS and what a bunch of bullsh*t. Idiots, complete idiots.

Posted 5 months ago #
onederfullone

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Ryan, age 24, dead.

Crawl into that brain.

Reportedly connected to the school somehow.

Posted 5 months ago #
angeline

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Gracie, I doubt many would say the kids should have had guns, but many might feel having the teachers and staff armed would have helped. That still makes no sense to me. More and more guns; more and more gun violence, and nary a story when an armed bystander was able to stop a gunman. Sometimes being armed seems to help in a robbery type situation, as in an armed store owner, but even those outcomes seem very rare. I just can't see the sense in allowing so many guns around. Yeah, criminals can get guns if they really want them regardless of law (duh, criminal = doesn't follow laws) but if there were less around to get it would help.

Posted 5 months ago #
gracie

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"We should all get used to it." Onederfullone - there is absolutely NO WAY I can wrap that around my brain, my soul to just accept it and "get used to it."
Police who are on scenes of dead children, adults all the time have told me the ones that really get to them are the children. A 30 year veteran of the police department said "you never get used to it. You want to go home and hug your kids and be thankful they are okay."

Posted 5 months ago #
woodchucker

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Apparently the school had just put a new security policy in place, to prevent something like this from happening.

My hat's off to the teacher who had the presence of mind to herd kids into the closet.
Probably saved some lives today.

Posted 5 months ago #
phoo

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Yes, apparently his mother taught at the school, so there's the connection. Even shooters don't usually go after elementary school children, unless there's a specific reason. It would be nice though to see some selective shooters, if they must go for the mass shooting instead of just quietly offing themselves.

Posted 5 months ago #
phoo

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Security police only work for those who are good with obeying the law.

Posted 5 months ago #
gracie

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Angeline - case in point where the store owner had a gun was few years back at the gas station/convenience store on 15th across the street from St Alphonsus. The robber & the owner fought over the gun & the owner got shot/killed. A woman living by Lake Washington, single mother with small child. She had a gun for "protection". A man broke into her apartment during the night, she heard it & had her child hide under the bed. The man came into her bedroom, she pointed the gun at him, the old "I have a gun." But she wasn't fast enough to pull the trigger & he got the gun from her & cold bloodily shot her - while her little child under the bed witnessed all this.
For the record - I HATE GUNS. And there is absolutely NO REASON why G.I. Citizen should be able to possess these assault weapons. NRA be damned.

Posted 5 months ago #
phoo

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If you are going to own a gun, you must be TRAINED with it or it will be a liability, not an asset. this is true for any weapon. If you know how to use a gun, when to use a gun, practice with the gun constantly, it reduces your harm. If you buy one for "protection" and never touch it, you are at high risk of misusing the gun or having it used against you.

Posted 5 months ago #
anotherballardite

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Training doesn't stop gun violence. Gun nuts have a way of getting themselves into situations where they can "discharge their weapon". Most of the last high profile shootings in King county were perpetrated by highly trained shooters.

Members of the NRA should go in and clean up that school.

Posted 5 months ago #
lifeisamazing

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My heart aches for those families.

I feel like there are more factors for all these shootings.

Violent games, violent movies, sensationalized violence in the news. The numbness that people feel toward others and all the anonymity. I don't know. It just makes me feel sick.

Posted 5 months ago #
phoo

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Don't confuse "gun violence" with misfires and accidents, or "gun nuts" and criminals. Can you be off your rocker and be trained in firearms? Sure, but most people who are trained in firearms are ridiculously safety concious. They'll get angry if someone sweeps them with their weapon, even if the mag is out. I know someone who allowed himself to be beaten up because he knew his life was not in danger, all without drawing his weapon. Make no mistake, even when it's in self defense, it's a very serious thing to draw your weapon because the police is going to be looking at YOU as the bad guy and will question you until they figure out what happened. There is always the risk that they'll get it wrong, so you'd best make sure that the situation is more than obvious.

BTW, I call C.R.A.P. on the "most" [are] "highly trained shooters." Cite Resources Appropriate Please.

Posted 5 months ago #
eric

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terrible day for many families. this happened mere hours ago, and already people are at each others throats (on FB, comments sections of KOMO, Seattle Times). hopefully everyone will give this moment proper respect. terrible day for many families. RIP

Posted 5 months ago #
lifeisamazing

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Phoo +1

Posted 5 months ago #
phoo

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eric: You're right.

Let's put the guns vs not guns discussion on hold.

Posted 5 months ago #
lifeisamazing

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Well said Eric

Posted 5 months ago #
PDaddymom

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Death by traffic accidents and death by gun violence = apples and oranges. One is an accident and the other is completely intentional.

Posted 5 months ago #
BuffaloHawk

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The right to bear arms !!!

The children weren't even old enough to utilize there 2nd Amendment Rights

Posted 5 months ago #
onederfullone

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okay, it's thier. fwiw.

Many good comments, fwiw.

President is speaking now....shhhhhhhh

Posted 5 months ago #
SEdholm

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I saw on NBC that it was the son of the kindergarden teacher. Thought is that is where it mostly happened. His mother was one of the ones shot. He killed someone in their family home and someone else is in custody right now.

Just horrendous. My mom teaches 5th grade in Kent and I immediately wrote her thinking of her. Just makes me sick that you could do that.

Posted 5 months ago #
gracie

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eric - thank you for pulling us back. The real issue is the tragic loss of the innocent people. My prayers go to all. Even the shooter's family will have grief and have to deal with this.
Thanks again, Eric.

Posted 5 months ago #
boatgeek

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I promise not to argue, but my curiosity is piqued. What is the rail that results in 1.21 million fatalities a year?

As I was just saying in another blog, it's not possible to armor the schools enough to protect kids from gun violence. It has to be done out in the larger society. As the safety guys at work keep saying, every tragedy is preventable. There was a chain of events that led to this tragedy, and it could have been stopped at any link in that chain. I'm not advocating a knee-jerk "Take away all the guns" response, I'm just saying that we need to use the opportunity to take a hard look in the mirror.

I'll take a moment of silence for the victims, but that's not enough. Do we really care enough to make the changes that would have prevented this shooting?

Posted 5 months ago #
phoo

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boatgeek: I agree and I think it may be a social thing, though I can't pin it down greater than that. There was no one to see that something was amiss with him and if they did, where would they go and who would they talk to? If he felt he was dangerous, it's unlikely he would be able to afford serious psychological help.

But I'm not just talking services here... I'm talking about the social disconnection and whatever else it is that makes a dispute with another person OK to bloom into this. There will always be nuts, and always be spots of unpreventable violence, but the scale and frequency has gone up significantly for some social reason. Most shooters end up killing themselves, so what makes them decide to take others out if they are gonna go too?

Posted 5 months ago #
RichY

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My God folks many children are dead by the hand of a violent act, and all you all seem to care about is the tool that was was used.

Do any of you have a soul?

Posted 5 months ago #
anotherballardite

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I really can't give up the conclusion that those people take others with them because they have the access and the skills to operate a powerful weapon. There have been a number of cases lately: Ian Stawicki and Jacob Roberts in Oregon? Dinh Bowman was also a very skilled marksman.

I've been to the shooting ranges in Seattle and Kent. Lot's of very careful responsible people there. But for every 1 of those there are a huge number of others who can't be trusted.

I would be willing to give up the guns if it would prevent even one of these incidents.

Posted 5 months ago #
onederfullone

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"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

Posted 5 months ago #
onederfullone

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...and now would be the time we trot out counselers and experts.

God Bless us all.

Posted 5 months ago #
boatgeek

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Also, forgot to add advice I saw for people contemplating murder-suicide attacks: Do the suicide part first. I apologize if it's too soon. I tend to cope using black humor.

Posted 5 months ago #
angeline

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I'm with you, Gracie.

I also hate guns and would prefer an outright ban. But recognizing that others feel differently, I'd be OK with gun licensing being at least as strict and controlled as driver licensing (preferably a little more so). Want to get/keep a gun license? Plant your butt at a government office for a Saturday morning of taking tests and filling out a bunch of paperwork. Repeat every few years as long as you want to continue being licensed. Be required to carry insurance to cover any accidents or misuse of your weapon. Be required to keep up the license/insurance unless you can prove you sold the weapons.

Rich, how many kids need to die before we are allowed to be outraged that the tool that brought it about is readily available to any nut who wants one?

Posted 5 months ago #
phoo

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RichY and eric are correct - let's hold off on the debates and ranting for awhile and remember the families whose children went to school and they are now being asked to identify. The dinner table will be very empty.

Posted 5 months ago #
onederfullone

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fwiw, I first heard about a school shooting, then it was zero casualties but one teacher was shot in the foot.

Things tend to evolve, but I never expected it to evolve into this.

I'm going off-grid again. I'll miss you all, fwiw.

Posted 5 months ago #
RichY

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angeline, A (deranged/sick)person killed those children and adults - It is important to focus on the loss and not some political issue

Posted 5 months ago #
angeline

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I really disagree, RichY. I'll shut up on about it on this thread, though.

Posted 5 months ago #
gracie

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Tootles Onderfullone - Have a good weekend and try to be good!

Posted 5 months ago #
ballardmike

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meanwhile in China - crazy F-er attacks school kids with a knife. Many injuries, plenty of trauma... no know fatalities.

Crazy is crazy with or without a gun in hand. Too bad crazy can't get help as easily as getting a gun.

Posted 5 months ago #
SeaSpider

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"Deciding that guns are the reason for, or selected purpose of, unwarranted, inexcusable deaths would compel me to check traffic data next."

Cars are the #1 cause of death for children - more than guns or any disease. Exactly what point are you trying to make? Can you show me ONE recent incidence where someone used a car to deliberately murder dozens of people? I can list numerous incidents - all within the past few months - where someone used a gun to do this. That's the difference. What part of that do you not comprehend??

Posted 5 months ago #
MrINTJ

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Knives or guns or whatever. Yes horrible tragedies. We certainly don't need holier than thou preaching, RichY, you ass.

Posted 5 months ago #
ballardmike

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SeaSpider - EXACTLY!!

Guns are designed to kill. Simple.

Posted 5 months ago #
jj

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I feel we need to focus on raising national awareness about anti-violence. I'm not talking about gun stuff, I'm talking about getting the word out that not only is this kind of thing unacceptable, but that there are better alternatives than violence, and there are people that are always willing to talk things through with you.

Posted 5 months ago #
RichY

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I should just walk away , but ....
http://www.king5.com/news/cities/seattle/Seattle-police--181448191.html
http://www.14news.com/story/16298578/wa-police-man-drives-car-into-crowd
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Woman-pleads-not-guilty-to-DUI-crash-that-injured-pedestrians--108235604.html
http://www.madd.org/local-offices/wa/news/

In Reno a woman drove into a casino - for the fun of it
Priscilla Ford killed seven people and injured 21 others when she drove her Lincoln Continental down a crowded Reno sidewalk on Thanksgiving Day

We need to work on fixing people

maybe go back in time and fix MrINTJ' dad - if anyone knows who he was

Posted 5 months ago #
SeaSpider

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gracie: "Really? A 5 year old carrying a gun? I don't think even those idiots would think someone that young should be carrying a gun."

Sadly Gracie you are very wrong on that. When I lived in AZ they tried to pass a law banning guns in schools. It failed thanks to the efforts of the NRA who insisted children should be allowed to have guns in school. These people think ANY reasonable limit on gun ownership starts the slippery slope towards all-out gun bans. They're the equivalent of free speech advocates who think it should be OK to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater.

I don't believe in banning guns - for starters, it would be about as effective as when we tried to ban pot or alcohol. I do believe in VASTLY stronger gun laws. If you have ANY history of violence - not just convictions - you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. If you want to own a gun you should have to demonstrate that you know how to safely operate it and store it as well as understand the laws around using it (the "If I see someone breaking into my car I'll blow their head off" crowd DEFINITELY should not be allowed to own guns!) If you leave a gun unsecured in your home or car and someone steals it and uses it to commit a crime you are liable for paying damages for enabling the criminal to get a gun. Stockpiling ammunition would be illegal.

Posted 5 months ago #
gracie

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To put this back into perspective of the original thread - just go onto MSN.com & look at the picture of one of the parents. That's why Buffalo started this - the awful fact of children gunned down and how he felt the impact here because of his little one - as all parents probably felt. To lose a child in a senseless act. Tonight give your kids an extra hug and tell them you love them - even if they are being little stinkers. You never know..........

Posted 5 months ago #
SeaSpider

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RichY:

Read my comments again. Focus on the following: "Can you show me ONE recent incidence where someone used a car to DELIBERATELY MURDER DOZENS OF PEOPLE"

What part of this do you not understand? Delierately? Murder? Dozens? Not one of the incidences you list meet that criteria. NONE. Only the first one was blatantly deliberate and it only involved two victims, neither of whom died. Now compare that to today. Or the Aurora shooting. Both recently happened. Both were deliberate. Both involved dozens of people being murdered.

Posted 5 months ago #
pennygirl

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As far as I can make out guns have two purposes. Practicing how to kill someone/something or actually killing or trying to kill someone/something.

26 people are dead. 20 children.

Posted 5 months ago #
dsomers

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One thought. As much as I dislike our gun culture, perhaps a very large part of this particular problem is the way we treat mental health in this nation? Guns may have been the tools and made the scale and ease of the devastation easier, but I would argue that horribly unbalanced minds have been the cause, and we are doing a terrible job of dealing our emotionally ill people at so many levels.

I can't say anything that would be meaningful to all the folks back in Connecticut who are suffering, except to say my thoughts and hopes are with them.

Have a good weekend all!

D

Posted 5 months ago #
SEdholm

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The mental health system in America and gun laws are a huge factor here, but that was the issue for yesterday, a week ago, a month ago. We can discuss it tomorrow.

How about we email our government and ask them to do something instead of debate it here? It will get better results (which may still be none).

No matter what:
If you know a teacher, thank them. They teach, babysit and are supposed to help be body guards in cases like this.
If your parents are still living, thank them and tell them you love them for they way they raised you. You aren't the ones making the news and they are the reason you are the way you are.
If you are a parent, hug your kids and tell them you love them.

Posted 5 months ago #
lifeisamazing

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My Phoo +1 was in response to the safety/get training issue in owning a gun in her post two up from mine. I don't know about the other stuff.

Posted 5 months ago #
lifeisamazing

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dsomers and holme, well put. Sad but true.

Posted 5 months ago #
phoo

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LIA, would you like to get together tonight or tomorrow?

Posted 5 months ago #

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