1. 

   Ballardemician
   

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   Brave boat people of the dangerous republic of Ballard!

   I've got some questions regarding becoming a boat owner. Answers and general advising appreciated.

   What might be a good type of boat to fit these "needs":

   1) not a sailboat
   2) trips to the islands, never out of Puget Sound
   3) fishing for those reddish fish on the totem poles
   4) maybe, maybe, maybe a little tow-sport fun (but fairly low on the list)
   5) not super slow
   6) not terrible gas mileage
   7) not necessarily sleep aboard - probably would bring camping gear and camp on shore
   8) but hey, sleep aboard in a pinch why not?
   9) 1-4 people about the usual load, six fro short cruises maybe
   10) comfortable lay out
   11) enough indoor/covered space to be warm/dry/happy in our occasionally crap weather.
   12) seaworthy, perhaps enough to explore boat-in-only surf-spots along the straight.
   13) modern - don't mind maintenance but don't want to make a hobby out of restoration.

   Budget:

   I'm looking to buy with three other parties. That said, we aren't looking for prestige in a first boat, just ability to do the above things. We'll have a built in savings mechanism in our agreement to upgrade to the next boat when it's time and we really know what we'd like -- for now just want a low capital investment on a USED boat to get feet wet.

   So what might be a good direction to look?

   Mooring: a boat small enough to trailer is fine, but there are group members who don't have the vehicle to pull a trailer, so we'll need a slip. Any advice on relatively economical places to keep a (probably under 24') boat? Is there a big difference between salt and freshwater as far as docking goes?

   okay enough for now, thanks

   Posted 3 months ago #
2. 

   RichY
   

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   Duplicate

   Posted 3 months ago #
3. 

   RichY
   

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   Wow , where to begin ?

   think about your need for speed - A trawler style will give you good fuel usage (but slower speed - no tow sports)good stability, comfort easy to handle.

   All boats have fair to high cost in upkeep - they are in water

   Faster boats are fun, harder to handle in poor weather real high fuel usage - boats are rated in gallons per hour - my 32' power boat (could not get rid of it fast enough) did about 10 g/hr to 25 g/hr with a 250 g fuel tank (do the math) an out board will run about 1 - 6g/h - for real fun about 10g/hr

   Moorage in Elliot bay or shilshole will run about $10 /foot

   You might try leasing a bout for a few months or join a club to try them out.

   Look at Sail boats (my real love) slower but a lot of fun, less cost to maintain, much more stable and easy to use (never run out of fuel) my 36' used about 1 gal / year

   Go to some dealers that have used boats - there are some at Elliot bay marina and at shilshole, you can see them on the water and get a good feel of what you may want

   Posted 3 months ago #
4. 

   Corvus
   

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   Bayliner. Start cheap. There should be tons of them out there.

   Posted 3 months ago #
5. 

   Ernie
   

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   This is my dream boat, and my interests are pretty much along the lines of what you describe:

   http://www.c-dory.com/boats/classic/angler-22/

   They have been making them for 20 years or so, so there are plenty of used ones out there. Did you go to the boat show a couple weeks ago? That was a good place to check out various options.

   For smaller boats, dry stack storage is something you might want to consider, your boat stays high and dry on the rack until you call them to launch it. We keep our ski boat at Birchard and Agee, just upstream from the locks.

   http://www.bamarineservices.com/

   We've got a partnership with our boat, and IMHO that's the way to go, few people use their boat often enough that they can't work around the other's schedules. Just make sure everyone is cool with spending money, because you will.

   Good luck!

   Posted 3 months ago #
6. 

   Corvus
   

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   C-Dory's rock but they aren't cheap despite the rather spartan accommodations. I hadn't thought of it before, but Ernie is right. If you can find a C-Dory that is a great choice.

   Posted 3 months ago #
7. 

   Ernie
   

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   Yeah, even a used C-dory won't be cheap (hence the "dream boat" status for me) but the op didn't mention a price range so I just threw out my fav. Your suggestion of Bayliner is a good one for a first boat at a reasonable price.

   Posted 3 months ago #
8. 

   RichY
   

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   Here is a place to start - they will let you on the boats to check them out.
   I have done some selling through them

   http://www.elliottbayyachtsales.com/

   Bayliner. Start cheap. There should be tons of them out there.

   I had a bayliner - it was OK, but the work done on them (by a dealer) was poor and I , and my mechanic needed fix a lot of stuff - the hulls are good and the power plants are good, they just get poor maintenance - just check out the work that is done and it will save a lot of $$.

   Posted 3 months ago #
9. 

   Ballardemician
   

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   guys thanks! I've seen those C-Dory boats and other like them around here a lot. Maybe down the road but for now looking for cheaper.

   Bayliner does seem to be the value brand, and Rich you weren't kidding about poor gas mileage -- the stripped down 21' Bayliners from ten years ago get 3.5 mph at cruising speed. The 28's and up seem to get something like 1.3 mpg :0

   Used Bayliners can be had pretty cheap though - 10k (offered not asking) appears to get you something pretty decent. But that gas mileage -- shocking!

   I should go walk around some boats -- this is going to take some thought. Thanks for the tip on dry storage Ernie, can you relate about what that costs?

   Thanks!

   Posted 3 months ago #
10. 

    Jonathan Pryce
    

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    The two best days in a boat owner's life?

    The day you buy it and the day you sell it. :)

    Posted 3 months ago #
11. 

    SmartsyArtsy
    

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    Darn, I thought it said boots, and that is something I know about.

    Posted 3 months ago #
12. 

    Ernie
    

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    $225/mo for our 17 footer, I think the rates are on the linked site somewhere. We pay $150/mo for on-trailer storage in the winter.

    JP, you know what "boat" stands for right? Break out another thousand!

    Posted 3 months ago #
13. 

    Ballardemician
    

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    Been searching and I can't get over the fuel consumption - smallest sizes of boats with a cabin do about 4 mph if surface conditions/tidal flows aren't working against you! I might just take a sailing class this morning. Blows me away that the bigger pleasure boats that come through the locks burn a gallon a mile - and those people are always smiling! Won't even ask about emission - assuming there aren't tight standards for boats, given how much power they need to get around ...

    Posted 3 months ago #
14. 

    RichY
    

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    Displacement hulls are the way to go - slow speeds 7-11 Kt but low fuel usage.
    The larger pleasure boats can burn fuel at 1 gal per minute (60g/hr)! not mile.

    Sail is the way to go, fun and leisurely, comfy cabins great, and QUIET with no smell! you get to enjoy the water, and the sea life will swim with your boat

    Posted 3 months ago #
15. 

    dsomers
    

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    Ballardemician,

    To add to your confusion.....when we were looking to buy a boat years ago a friend who is the owner/editor of a popular sailing magazine suggested we consider a power boat versus a sailboat for a number of reasons. For us, the boat use was partly live aboard, partly long travels along the coast, some fishing and short term exploring. But mostly longer term living and cruising. His thoughts were....for living aboard a trawler is much better than a sailboat since more of the living area is above the water line and the boat is brighter and more airy and open. From a use standpoint he pointed out that in Puget Sound and the San Juans, most of the time you see sailboats running around with bare poles. No wind to speak of.

    The live aboard aspects of his comments were spot on. And the trawler we ended up getting was also very fuel efficient as trawlers go. About 1.5 gallons of diesel per hour at cruise. But cruise is about 7 knots so consider that. (a sailboat is even more fuel efficient than that when running on engine, but its fuel capacity is very small. Our capacity is 400 gallons) This is the boat I lived on for 4 years here in Shilshole, and what my wife lived aboard for 3 years in Lake Union when she went to school at UW.

    A sailboat has a deep draft compared to power boats so that effects where you can go. My boat draws 3.5 feet for example. Something to consider depending on what you want to do.

    You might want to go and take some sailing classes without committing to buying a sail boat. That will expose you to some of what you need to know to own one without committing yourself. And do the same with a trawler or similar boat. Take a small boat handling course. (small meaning 36 foot or less, single engine, and one that focuses on maneuvering at dock and when anchoring...the two more stressful things you can do with a boat) Then you have something to compare and will have had some fun in the process.

    I love sailboats, but the trawler ended up being the right choice for us.

    Have fun either way though!!

    Oh.....one other thought. Whichever boat type you focus on....have your spouses take some handling classes/navigation as well, and then split the duties pretty evenly so you are both practiced. And by Handling and navigation I mean hands on, in the water, docking and undocking repeatedly type of classes. If anything unfortunate happened to you while out there they would have the confidence and skill to get back, and you will both be on the same page when docking and anchoring or when navigating. And....they will be more invested in the boat and more comfortable on it instead of always being relegated to a helpless passenger. Those things can cause real stress on a boat.

    Dave

    Posted 3 months ago #
16. 

    ballardmike
    

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    I just got my first a couple weeks ago... STILL HAPPY!!!

    Consider your budget and whether you want to moor it or have a trailer-able boat. We opted for moorage (convenience) and 33' of nice space... plus it's a beauty i must say.

    Now - all i need to worry about is paying moorage from here til eternity and saving for maintenance.

    1-Budget 2-Aesthetics 3-Pain threshold 4-Time to use it.

    Good luck!!!

    Posted 3 months ago #
17. 

    dsomers
    

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    ballardmike!

    Based on your avatar, is it safe to assume you opted for a Viking Longship with a team of oarsmen and a big burly drum beater to keep them in line? <grin>

    Congrats on the new boat!!!

    Dave

    Posted 3 months ago #
18. 

    ballardmike
    

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    Ja... and they eat/drink like pigs so I'm hoping to trade them out for some ladies soon as bikini weather hits!

    The marina is getting tired of the noise!!

    Posted 3 months ago #
19. 

    onederfullone
    

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    Nice plan...

    ...if you don't expect any rowing to get done ;-)

    Posted 3 months ago #
20. 

    Ernie
    

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    If anything unfortunate happened to you while out there they would have the confidence and skill to get back

    This is good advice, Dave. When I was a kid my dad used the sink or swim approach on me. When I was around 12 or 13 my dad and I were out sailing one day. We were clipping right along with a nice stiff breeze when all of a sudden he grabbed a seat cushion and threw it over the rail. "I just fell overboard" he said and went down below and cracked a beer. A couple minutes later as I was still scrambling around trying to get the boat set up on a broad reach to get back to "him" he called up and said "If for some reason you can't rescue the cushion, you better be able to get the boat back to the dock!"

    I rescued the cushion.

    Posted 3 months ago #
21. 

    dsomers
    

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    Ernie!! Good story!! <grin>

    One additional thought on classes for the spouses. If you can, don't have them take the classes with you. Let them go on their own. Sometimes the interaction between spouses in a class like this is not that good. With rare exceptions, one spouse tends to be more dominate and in a classroom or live situation the one that is less dominant loses out. They will get more out of it, and have more confidence if they go do it by themselves.

    Posted 3 months ago #
22. 

    RichY
    

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    Ballardemician, there are many classes for women only, both sail and seamanship, these have the advantage of the participants speaking freely about their interactions with the men on boats - my wife and I never need to talk to each other when docking or sailing in a storm (granted 40 yrs sailing together helped), the problems she had were with guests (men) that felt she needed help, when in fact she usually needed to fish them out of the water, because the jumped to the dock (at about 30' way). Also if you can sail together and come back after a 30 day cruise together then your marriage is solid (accidents happen in open water and little investigation is done).

    trawlers are also good - old sailors move to them when they are to old for real fun, but they are stable and easy to pilot - not fast, but good on fuel and good above water space - kind of like a motor home on water.

    Take the free sail intro from any of the sailing clubs at Shilshole - there may also be a power boat club that offers an intro lesson - Try out the folks at Queen City YC on the canal in montlake - they may give you a few intros to different kinds of boats.

    Boaters are nice and friendly go down to Shilshole or Elliot Bay Marina, walk down the visitor docks and ask anyone about their boat - they will talk you to death about them.

    Good luck

    Posted 3 months ago #
23. 

    dguy
    

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    Have an inspection done on any used boat before you buy it. There can be very expensive hidden problems.

    Posted 3 months ago #
24. 

    Ballardemician
    

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    Guys thanks -- definitely hearing you about taking classes, both I and spouse, separately. I think she'll be fine with that.

    The boating market is pretty confusing! I'm putting the idea of a purchase on hold until next fall at least. This spring/summer will learn to sail then forward from there.

    Posted 3 months ago #

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