1. 

   Compass Rose
   

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   I realize this has nothing to do with Ballard, but since it's all over the bloody news, I'm guessing other people here are probably thinking about it too.

   What do you think? Was it pre-meditated? I suppose his story could be true (that he thought there was a burglar and shot his girlfriend by mistake), but it seems very unlikely.

   He just happened to go outside and get a fan in the middle of the night just before his girlfriend went into the bathroom, so therefore he thought she was still in bed?

   Why would the girlfriend lock herself in the bathroom unless it was to keep him out? (lending credence to the claim that they'd had a fight)

   And why would his first thought be that it was an intruder in the bathroom, not his girlfriend who was staying overnight?

   On the other hand, he could be telling the truth.

   Discuss.

   Posted 3 months ago #
2. 

   Cheese
   

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   And he reportedly is an impulsive hothead, which lends credence that this was something that just shot out of control - she ran to the bathroom, locked it, and he lost it and got his gun.

   And he could be telling the truth, we don't know which "facts" are really true yet, it is far too early for forensics - we just have competing narratives now.

   I remember how during the Amanda Knox days I was convinced that the "fact" that she and her boyfriend went to get bleach before the stores opened the day after the murder was the piece of evidence that pushed me over. Except it wasn't a fact, it didn't happen.

   So we'll see. Hopefully South Africa isn't as incompetent as Italy...

   Posted 3 months ago #
3. 

   teigyr
   

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   I think after ballastics are concluded, that will be the deciding factor. Last I heard, he said he didn't have his legs on and thought it was an intruder.

   It will be interesting. I don't think we (esp in the US and where we are here) can judge as to whether or not he was fearful of violence. I hear that is common in SA. I hope the guy gets a fair trial and I really hope he's innocent though I am not confident to bet one way or the other.

   Posted 3 months ago #
4. 

   Compass Rose
   

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   Teigyr, I read today that detectives said he did have his legs on, based on the angle of the shots. But then, they also admitted they botched things at the crime scene.

   Good point about concerns about personal safety being different in South Africa than here.

   Cheese, I hadn't heard the hothead rumors (I didn't know anything about the guy until last week), but read that there have been domestic issues at his house in the past.

   I hope he gets a fair trial too. Poor Amanda Knox. FWIW, I never thought she did it. The supposed motive just wasn't believable to me.

   Posted 3 months ago #
5. 

   teigyr
   

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   CR, that last I heard was last night so I hadn't heard the latest on his legs. It doesn't look good, that's for sure.

   I think, to a degree, good athletes have to have a bit of the hothead in them. Sometimes it takes that to overcome obstacles too and he has had plenty of those. I'm still hoping for the best but I also want fairness to prevail however it goes.

   Posted 3 months ago #
6. 

   allisonw
   

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   It was also reported that the police found steroids in the house. If true, won't bode well for Blade Runner.

   Posted 3 months ago #
7. 

   Compass Rose
   

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   I think they've now acknowledged that they weren't steroids but some herbal treatment.

   Posted 3 months ago #
8. 

   Compass Rose
   

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   Teigyr, to your point about fear of crime in South Africa, this is a really good piece:

   http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/21/opinion/cry-the-misogynistic-country.html?_r=0

   Posted 3 months ago #
9. 

   Ernie
   

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   If we take his side of the story at face value it doesn't reflect very well on his judgement.

   By his own admission he fired three shots through a closed door at an intruder that he hadn't even seen. He apparently fired wildly into the bathroom at what he assumed was an intruder without verifying the location of his girlfriend, the other occupant of the house, and obvious possible user of the bathroom.

   Best case, his story describes horribly reckless behavior and irresponsible use of a gun, worst case, he's a cold-blooded killer.

   Posted 3 months ago #
10. 

    Cheese
    

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    And that Ernie is the problem in his narrative. He shot at a door not knowing what was behind it. If the intruder has retreated into a closed space without you even seeing them - then it seems that you have a big upper hand and don't need to shoot through a closed door. Get your girlfriend and run out of the damn house. So, at the very least depraved indifference.

    Posted 3 months ago #
11. 

    teigyr
    

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    yeah and when I heard that his legs weren't on, shooting made sense. More sense than if he had his legs on, that is.

    The whole thing is sad.

    CR, I'll read that tonight. I've always wanted to visit SA but I know it's very very different.

    Posted 3 months ago #
12. 

    marigold
    

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    I can't wrap my brain around being asked to believe that an intruder would take the time out of his/her nefarious intruder activities to go potty. What?

    Posted 2 months ago #
13. 

    onederfullone
    

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    As The OP very astutely said, NBR.

    Sometimes I feel like I'm in some kind of stupid dream. Someone fights their entire life and quickly ruins it, and it's a facebooking headline.

    I could make a list, but I don't care to give them the satisfaction.

    This thread is facebooking ridiculous, and exactly what is expected.

    All due respect to her, friends, family.

    We love a good story, especially if the ending is facebooking tragic.

    Can't wait for the facebooking Lifetime movie.

    They will make certain to portray that she saw all of the syringes and steroids, got assaulted numerous times, and stayed for it all.

    Nothing like angry sex, ladies, it rocks your world, sucks your brains out.

    Yes, I would know.

    I see it in real life.

    Posted 2 months ago #
14. 

    Ballardemician
    

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    the way you travel from point A to point unicornicecreamcone is wonderfully inscrutable.

    Posted 2 months ago #
15. 

    onederfullone
    

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    yeah, hard to follow.

    I prefer it.

    I guess most want to leave a trail like a slug that glistens in the sun. Clearly.

    Posted 2 months ago #
16. 

    pennygirl
    

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    I have a theory about the bathroom. I will share it later.

    Posted 2 months ago #
17. 

    onederfullone
    

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    The bathroom was compartment-ed, so your theory will be compelling.

    Posted 2 months ago #
18. 

    great idea
    

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    well, here's what happened in that bathroom...

    wife went to go take shower and stumbled upon a spare leg.
    she proceeded to scratch her back with it which infuriates husband who kills her with gun.

    Posted 2 months ago #
19. 

    onederfullone
    

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    funny, I was thinking it wasn't her back, but it did itch...

    Posted 2 months ago #
20. 

    pennygirl
    

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    Well I suppose it depends on her psyche - we don't know that. But someone who suffers from panic/anxiety disorder would find the first safe place to hide.

    Supposedly he told her to call the cops. She was found in the bathroom with a phone. Why has no-one thought that she might have been so terrified at the idea of someone in the house that she ran to a safe place? It isn't inconceivable that she was hiding in there unable to speak because she was so frightened.

    You can all laugh at me if you like but I find the scenario entirely possible.

    Posted 2 months ago #
21. 

    pennygirl
    

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    When it comes down to being an asshole you have outdone yourself great idea. Congratulations.

    Posted 2 months ago #
22. 

    iPlod
    

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    roid rage

    Posted 2 months ago #
23. 

    Cheese
    

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    PG: It's plausible to me and it would fit either narrative for that matter - terrified of the intruder or of Pastorius, but probably less time to grab the phone if it's the boyfriend.

    Still laughing at "point A to point unicornicecreamcone"

    Posted 2 months ago #
24. 

    gracie
    

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    +1PG. A woman is dead & GI makes that. A-hole statement. Unbelievable.

    Posted 2 months ago #
25. 

    JM
    

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    It seems inconceivable that an intruder could sneak into his gated community, with nine foot walls and armed guards, just to use Mr Pistorius' restroom. Have burglaries been a problem in his neighborhood? His story doesn't make sense.

    Posted 2 months ago #
26. 

    Corvus
    

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    "When it comes down to being an asshole you have outdone yourself great idea. Congratulations."

    "+1PG. A woman is dead & GI makes that. A-hole statement. Unbelievable."

    I'm not discounting your assessment of GI's comment but it did have a bit of humor albeit on the bawdy side.

    But it beggars belief you would let this one pass without the same condemnation...

    "funny, I was thinking it wasn't her back, but it did itch..."

    Perhaps you just don't know what is implied by this comment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUHxx0ZeIZU

    Posted 2 months ago #
27. 

    Ernie
    

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    I was thinking the same thing Corvus, onder's on a misogyny tear tonight:

    Nothing like angry sex, ladies, it rocks your world, sucks your brains out.

    Yes, I would know.

    Posted 2 months ago #
28. 

    great idea
    

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    jesus h.

    it's painfully obvious this actual a-hole murdered his beautiful wife.

    why is this even being discussed?

    it's like whitey O.J. Simpson in South Africa. go figure.

    Posted 2 months ago #
29. 

    Cheese
    

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    Many things seem obvious when we don't know everything. We fill in the gaps between the facts with our personal narratives of how we think things happen. Sometimes these personal narratives take over everything. See oneder for example.

    Usually when we hear stampeding hooves, one thinks of horses. But every once in a while it is zebras. That is why there is a justice system so the lynch mob doesn't hang a zebra when it is "painfully obvious" it is a horse.

    In my opinion, this is fascinating because it does lend itself to storymaking out of the "facts" and stories we have been given. The Meredith Kercher/Amanda Knox saga taught us the folly of making the "facts" fit the story.

    Posted 2 months ago #
30. 

    teigyr
    

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    Well said, Cheese. Let's not forget the media is equally guilty of skewing things - sensationalism sells and the media has been known to have bias.

    Posted 2 months ago #
31. 

    Ernie
    

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    Yes it is fascinating Cheese. I remember the OJ verdict, we had a small TV in the conference room at work and we all crowded in there to watch the verdict be read. Several people cheered, and others super pissed off. I thought at the time that these reactions had more to do with the individual's pre-conceived notions and views, than the facts of the case.

    Posted 2 months ago #
32. 

    teigyr
    

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    Ernie, I know people who were adamant that he couldn't have done it. Others convicted him mentally before everything came out. It makes me nervous for people who actually serve on juries, I hope they are more open minded and willing to hear facts than a lot of people who convict so easily.

    Another interesting case, I think, is the George Zimmerman one. People jump to one side or the other and the facts given to the public were very one-sided. It will be fascinating to see how that one plays out.

    Posted 2 months ago #
33. 

    great idea
    

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    in both of those cases (Zimmerman & Pistorius), we all know who did the killing.

    they don't deny it.
    they just thought they had good cause.

    this Oscar guy most certainly either tried to kill his wife (successfully) or he really is crazy/cowardly for shooting a high-powered weapon through a closed door he didn't know who was behind. he deserves to go to jail.

    Posted 2 months ago #
34. 

    teigyr
    

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    GI, good point. I'm not sure he does deserve to go to jail, not yet. Am waiting to see how it all plays out. It's different there and it's easy to judge what our actions would be but I think we have no way of knowing the factors going into his decision making process. It could've been domestic violence going way wrong or there could be other things going on.

    Posted 2 months ago #
35. 

    Boris
    

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    No deserve jail what you have for breakfast dumb American? Crazy Flakes? Runner shot woman. Woman is dead. Runner pull trigger. In chess we call that checkmate. In america you play inferior game of checkers shoot someone dead say king me pass go and collect 200 dollars and live in park place!

    Send runner to gulag in Siberia and take away blades. Motive not matter. Russian way is better.

    Posted 2 months ago #
36. 

    Compass Rose
    

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    PG, if he told her to call the cops because he thought there was an intruder, why would he then shoot her? Doesn't make sense.

    GI, that is really not funny. I'm surprised you posted that. Not cool.

    One, you are just an asshole, period. Also, using "facebooking" as an adjective instead of just saying what you mean is fucking ridiculous.

    I'm with Cheese. While his defense seems implausible, it's impossible to know the truth yet. My suspicion is that they got into a fight and he intentionally killed her, but that may turn out not to be the case.

    Posted 2 months ago #
37. 

    pennygirl
    

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    Compass Rose. I didn't explain myself very well.

    I was wondering whether he told her to call the cops while he went to check the balcony (or whatever it was he checked) Maybe she ran to the bathroom with her phone and locked the door because she was terrified. Maybe he didn't know she had left the bedroom and assumed the intruder was in the bathroom.

    Yes, I know it's a stretch, but in a moment of sheer panic she have may been literally frozen in the bathroom, unable to say it was her in there. I dunno, maybe he shouted through the door and if she didn't answer, he assumed it was the intruder.

    Like you and Cheese, I am not ready to convict someone just because they appear to be guilty.

    Posted 2 months ago #
38. 

    teigyr
    

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    "Like you and Cheese, I am not ready to convict someone just because they appear to be guilty."

    Exactly. If it was that easy, why gather evidence, hear testimony, and all of that.

    Sometimes it all reminds me of spectators at sporting games. They yell and think they could've made a better decision than the coach or player and it's silly. If someone was so good that they could make the perfect decision/choice time after time in a matter of seconds from afar, that's almost godlike.

    Posted 2 months ago #
39. 

    Compass Rose
    

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    Penny, he said that he went out on the balcony to get a fan, that it was pitch black in the bedroom so he didn't notice that his girlfriend was in bed, and when he realized someone was in the bathroom, thought it was an intruder.

    It seems odd to me that his first thought was that it was an intruder in the bathroom, not his girlfriend. You think have would have yelled "who's there?" or something along those lines before shooting. I also wonder if the door enclosing the toilet came all the way down to the floor; if not, he could easily have looked and seen her feet.

    Still, I'm waiting to hear all of the facts before I decide he's guilty.

    Posted 2 months ago #
40. 

    pennygirl
    

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    Who knows CR. It doesn't help that the police who were at the scene seem to be a bunch of incompetent buffoons. Maybe we'll never know the truth. But whether it was premeditated murder or an accident, she's dead and he has to live with that for the rest of his life.

    Posted 2 months ago #
41. 

    gracie
    

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    Well said PG. And CR yeah there do seem to be some holes in his story. But only he knows what really happened.

    Posted 2 months ago #
42. 

    Compass Rose
    

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    Not only did they bungle the crime scene, the lead detective has been charged with seven counts of attempted murder himself. Doesn't inspire much public trust in the guy.

    Yes, it's something he'll have to live with forever. And all it boils down to is that a young woman with so much promise died tragically and prematurely. It's just sad, either way.

    Posted 2 months ago #
43. 

    Cheese
    

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    gracie: "But only he knows what really happened." I am amazed at how much good forensics can deduce in how a crime occurred - my guilty passion is true crime books. There might be a lot of answers just from the crime scene in the time line and can go a long way towards providing answers. Things like how a blood drop occurs, bullet angles, if a certain substance is on top of another substance.

    But then we have Compass Rose's point. The forensic world's A Team is not going to be in South Africa. Not even the C team. Hell, they might not even have a team - just a Morris Mini with clowns...

    Posted 2 months ago #
44. 

    Compass Rose
    

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    Which true crime writers do you like, Cheese? That's a genre I know nothing about.

    Posted 2 months ago #
45. 

    Cheese
    

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    I read Ann Rule and books that examine cases like the Jeffrey MacDonald case (google that one to get your mind blown on "facts" and stories - Errol Morris has a fascinating book on that one). The library has ebooks on Best True Crime reporting of the year so I've been plowing through those as well.

    Posted 2 months ago #
46. 

    iPlod
    

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    roid rage

    Posted 2 months ago #
47. 

    gracie
    

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    Cheese I too like the same books. Met ann rule and we hace remained friends. Love her books. Did you know she met ted bundy while working phones at crisis center. He worked there too. Yes, dna, blood patterns, can tell the story but these cops malke the Keystone cops look llike geniuses. Sure they contamimated the scene at. Some level.

    Posted 2 months ago #
48. 

    Compass Rose
    

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    My dad loves Ann Rule's books. I've never read one.

    Posted 2 months ago #
49. 

    iPlod
    

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    roid rage

    Posted 2 months ago #
50. 

    Compass Rose
    

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    iPlod, that's what my husband said: roid rage. That seems possible.

    Posted 2 months ago #
51. 

    iPlod
    

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    Thank you, Compass Rose.

    I think it's probable given his history.

    Posted 2 months ago #
52. 

    great idea
    

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    I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think steroids are a typical P.E.D. for elite sprinters. That extra muscle mass just slows them down.

    (even though iplod did say it twice;)

    blood doping is more popular amongst runners.

    I think the guy was just a hot-headed jerk and hopefully the jury agrees w/ me.

    Posted 2 months ago #
53. 

    Cheese
    

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    Anabolic steroids are *very* useful for any sport requiring explosive strength. The number of 100/200 meter runners caught with steroids is phenomenal.

    Blood doping is for endurance events - it was started by our region's favorite ethnicity: Scandinavian cross country skiers and then possibly Lasse Viren, and then came the bicyclists.

    I agree with the hot-headed jerk. It seems there was some kind of accident just waiting to happen with him.

    Posted 2 months ago #
54. 

    oldguybc
    

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    'Ploddo, was that steroids or hemorrhoids?

    Posted 2 months ago #
55. 

    great idea
    

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    thanks cheese.

    I see that's what brought Ben Johnson down.

    clearly I am a long distance runner.

    Posted 2 months ago #
56. 

    Mittens
    

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    (deleted)

    Posted 2 months ago #
57. 

    Compass Rose
    

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    From the New Yorker:

    "Pistorius has said that he got out of bed at around 4 A.M. to get a fan off his balcony, and on his way back heard a noise from the bathroom; went to the bed and got a gun from under it; screamed for Steenkamp to call the police; and then shot whomever was in an inner room in the bathroom (where the toilet was) through the door, only to be shocked to discover that Steenkamp was there."

    This sounds like total BS. He screamed for her to call the police and she didn't say anything in response? He got his gun from under the bed and didn't notice she wasn't in it? And he just happened to go out to get the fan at the exact same time that she went to the bathroom?

    Posted 2 months ago #
58. 

    GAM
    

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    When I have other people in the house and see the bathroom door is closed in the middle of the night, my first thought is not that there is an intruder. It's that I wish I had a second bathroom.

    Posted 2 months ago #
59. 

    pennygirl
    

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    From the BBC yesterday:

    "Interestingly, the prosecutor and magistrate today both raised, in abstract terms, the possibility of the charges against Oscar Pistorius being reduced from murder to culpable homicide - something which could mean a fine or suspended sentence rather than a long jail term."

    Maybe the prosecutor knows a little more than has been released to the public?

    Posted 2 months ago #
60. 

    great idea
    

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    where did they find her body? was she leaning against the door like she was trying to keep him out? cowering in the corner? actually using the bathroom?
    was there evidence that she was crying or stressed otherwise?

    those clues might help, but it's his word that is ultimately questioned.

    I can't see how his behaviour is not reckless enough to put him away for a bit.

    Posted 2 months ago #

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