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Daily news for Seattle's Ballard neighborhood |
59thandBlake
offlineMember
All I hear about in Ballard is Robbery and Burglary. With the recent events at Pit Stop, KFC and now Taco Bell, not to mention numerous home burglaries, what in the heck happened to my sleepy fishing village?
What is the root to this ongoing problem?
As citizens of our community it is time we start a conversation on why these problems are plaguing us and how we could solve them.
SPG
offlineMember
We could start by having more than one cop on the late night shift. An occasional team of a couple bike cops and a few patrol cars on a late night sting could round up all the car prowlers in no time.
The level of violent crime here isn't nearly as bad as some other cities, but the reality is that the property crime level is high enough that I don't know anyone who hasn't been hit with either a car prowl, car theft, or burglary.
Seattlemedic7
offlineMember
Taco Time.... NOT Taco Bell
59thandBlake
offlineMember
I knew that... Thank you for the correction Seattlemedic7
jeffo
offlineMember
I don't think it's much of a wave myself. Maybe a small blip as per usual in the summer months, but over the last ten years or so I don't see a dramatic increase.
More police would be nice of course, but I'm hoping all those dog owners at Woof-da can walk their pooches more often at odd hours to further deter crime.
SPG
offlineMember
Ballard is relatively safe, and though we did have a real uptick in crime earlier this year, but it could still be much better. I guess crime is just a statistic until it happens to you, and on the property crime level so many of us have been hit that it often feels like crime is rampant.
msballard30
offlineMember
The primary challenge (and there are many) is that there are two few officers working too large a sector, which is further challenged by the lengthy response time if the officers are coming all the way in from the North Precinct, which is a HUGE area (Aurora, Ballard, Bitter Lake, Blue Ridge, Broadview, Carkeek, Crown Hill, Fremont, Green Lake, Greenwood, Haller Lake, Hawthorne Hills, Lake City, Laurelhurst, Licton Springs, Loyal Heights, Maple Leaf, Matthews Beach, Meadowbrook, North Seattle, Northgate, Olympic Manor, Phinney Ridge, Ravenna Bryant, Roosevelt, Sand Point, Sunset Hill, Thornton Creek, University District, View Ridge, Wallingford, Wedgewood, Whittier Heights).
pwhee
offlineMember
SPG, what happened, you are starting to sound like Edog from months ago - no crime wave HAH. BTW - I think it was Edog so Edog, forgive me if it wasn't you.
Look at the latest from SPD - http://www.cityofseattle.net/police/Crime/STATS.HTM
Citywide and precinct data is available. The citywide Robbery and Assault stats are up 25% and 22% over last year - that is significant. North is up over 10% however that data is only through April.
seattledude
offlineMember
yea an armed robbery just happened in fremont about 10 minutes ago the are containing the area.
ballardmike
offlineMember
Well... eight years of war and an economy in the toilet will do that. Think about what kids have seen as their example growing up (assuming an age of 10-14 to start). People get desperate when they're not seeing many options.
That or we just have a bunch of a-holes running around.
ballardmike
offlineMember
Police on the beat would be nice too - not just a few guys cruising anonymously around in their cars.
SPG
offlineMember
Phwee, I walk the line between alarmist and optimist. Seattle has a very low number of cops/1,000 citizens, and so their policing method deends on answering 911 calls over patrolling and active community policing. It's basically policing on the cheap. Luckily we don't have the rash of gang shootouts that the south end has, we don't have near the level of violence of a lot of cities, but we have way too much property crime. Disproportionally too much property crime. The problem with this is that the city can still point to violent crime stats and say how safe the city is and what a lovely job they're doing, meanwhile the spokesman's car window is getting smashed for the spare change in his cup holder.
We did have a bit of a crime wave here in Ballard this past winter/spring, but SPD finally noticed and put a couple more cops on it. They played whack a mole and caught a few scumbags. What if we had a few more cops focused on property crime full time? I think we'd see a dramatic reduction in this kind of this thing, except that with the budget cuts it seems they don't want to actually prosecute and incarcerate anyone these days.
The other problem is that Seattle has a catch 22 problem with the bums*. The city wants to be seen as open and welcoming of all people and not the kind of place that would come down on the homeless, yet there is no real program to cut the number of homeless on the street in a long term way. At the same time the homeless are fed, and without an exit strategy, we get a lot of long term street people who act like bums and cause a disproportionate amount of problems. The car prowls are generally the work of two groups, bored kids looking for a thrill and some cash, and the bums who are desperate for a fix. The prosecutors want to give the kids a second chance and the cops don't want to be viewed as harassing the homeless for arresting the bums.
The bottom line is that we do live in a pretty safe city, but not because of the police. If you count property crime, we're worse than most of NYC.
*Although most bums are homeless, not all homeless are bums and we aren't kidding ourselves about who we're talking about here.
Nora Bell
offlineMember
Crime is up everywhere, not just in Ballard. And, yes, more cops please.
pwhee
offlineMember
Well said SPG but I'm not in 100% agreement. While resources are obviously limited there does need to be a focus on non-revenue generating policing - that is why we pay taxes. Red-light cameras are a prime example of a resource aware revenue generator - they let cops focus on more pressing needs. That said, hearing stories of SPD vice working for happy endings at Rick's - or undercovering crosswalks trying to ticket people for turning when peds are in an intersection is just, well infuriating. Not saying those things are not important but they are revenue generating - there are more fundamental problems that require their attention - AKA property and violent crime.
And to close with a perfect example. I bike quite a bit. Twice in the past six weeks I've been "warned" for speeding on the BG trail in a section with no auto traffic and limited ped traffic. SPD was on the trail with a radar gun - I kid you not. While I agree SPD is over-burdened they will not get any respect from me when their priority is ensuring that bicycles maintain a posted 15 MPH limit. Cars zip down my 20mph street at 30-40 all day long.
ballardmike
offlineMember
Hey! The Constitution doesn't say anything about having police. Isn't that Socialism?!? ;)
Jaywalking tickets are ridiculous when no traffic around, imho. Priorities.
jeffo
offlineMember
pwhee--
what section of the Burke Gilman trail was there a speed trap? I also find it pretty silly the SPD would waste their resources in this manner.
Nora Bell
offlineMember
Oh, don't start reading the Constitution now, folks. ;-)
Walking while texting is more dangerous than jaywalking (not that I like jaywalkers either). So, yeah, I agree the priorities have been all shot to hell.
pwhee
offlineMember
Jeffo - just north of the U on the section before Metropolitan Market - after the cycle store (old Tyee (sp) cycles). Mid-day both times. I've also encountered Lake Forest PD doing the same around Sheridan Beach. Never got a ticket - probably since it would be near impossible to enforce in a court - but nonetheless, it is absurd that they even consider it worthy of man hours.
To follow up on SPG's comments, yes, they are reactionary but only because of true priorities. If vice wants to see NEKED girlies tell them to go off duty. I'd rather see them on the street curbing drug sales, infiltrating ID theft rings, walking a BEAT - the list goes on and on.
SPG
offlineMember
Setting up a speed trap on the BG is something that they can do during the day. Who wants to work late night when the car prowlers are out? SPD officers have to get their beauty sleep ya know.
Edog
onlineMember
Granted, it has been some time since I commented on it, but I don't recal saying there was no crime in Ballard, rather that it was not bad compared to other are areas in the city, and that the city's stats were pretty good when compared to other similar areas.
Of the recent data you cite, the assault number interests me the most.
Ernie
offlineMember
Edog,
I think Pwhee might be thinking of Blueben, who also has a dog avatar, and was heavily involved in the whole forum cage fight about Ballard crime from a few months ago.
Jules
offlineMember
Crime is indeed up. Why? Because the basic characterists of the neighborhood have changed dramatically in the last 10 years. It used to be mainly a single-family neighborhood with a businesss district that catered to people living and working here. It is now a destination drinking neighborhood, with many more "transient" people who live here. (by transient, I mean people who move here for short periods of time, not bums.) Not that I mean these "newcomers" are attracting crime.
Bars bring in money, and money attacts crime. Couple this with a recession, the huge influx of homeless and drug addicts/dealers, and you have a perfect climate for property crime.
Barbara
offlineMember
Hmmmm. Metro transit routes have increased to and from many areas outside of Ballard-downtown Seattle.
crownhiller
offlineMember
Jules makes good points. Seems like simple arithemtic to me. Think about how many older single family homes in greater Ballard were torn down to construct multi-unit condos etc. There's a much higher population density now than even say 3 years ago. Add higher population to a troubled economy, and the math adds up to more crime.
Also, having lived in large apt complexes in the past, there can be a corresponding loss of... "neighborliness" for want of better word, that goes along with that kind of dense infill - you often only know a few of your neighbors, so it's a bit harder to quickly tell who is out of place and needs investigating. For example, we stopped a burglary at a neighbor's home because we knew their story of being relatives was bogus. I know that would have been harder to be certain of in one of my old apt. complexes.
Jules
offlineMember
Ballard was a fairly unique neighborhood at one time...it WAS the largest single ethnic neighborhood in Seattle. What that meant was that most people here not only knew all their neighbors, were related to many other Ballardites, but knew a LOT of other Ballardites from church, from school, and other ogranizations. There wasn't Six Degrees of Separation; more like 3. There is still a large contingent of people from Karmoy, Norway that has their own club. (we used to jokingly call Ballard the Scandinavian ghetto.) Crownhiller is correct...if you saw someone you didn't know in your hood, you were much more likely to ask them who they were.
One other factor: pretty much all the businesses in Ballard were owned by Ballardites. Well, you're not going to rob your cousin's store, are you? Ballard was for 100 years, give or take, really a small town at the edge of a big city.
Barbara
offlineMember
Jules--you're so right. I have lived on Sunset Hill since 1943. I loved it then. . .I like it now. But different it is most certainly. The Otterson's were our neighbors, the Anderson's (of the little store that used to be on the corner of 68th and 32nd) were neighbors and my folks knew every move my brother and I made everywhere in the neighborhood thanks to caring neighbors.
Jules
offlineMember
Barbara,
If you were neighbors of the Ottersons, then you were neighbors of ours; my parents house is the one on the corner down the hill that looks just like the Ottersons. In fact, Harry Otterson grew up WITH my grandparents and Dad in that house...and they rented our house to the Ottersons when they lived in Alaska. I remember the little store on 68th...there was a little red-headed boy named Johnny who lived there when it was still a store, when I went to Webster! Remember the Hiscocks? The Frodesons? The Hughes? Dr. Knutsen?
Ballard WAS like a small town.IF you got into some sort of trouble on the way home from school, by the time you got home your mom had heard about it, because her hairdresser's cousin's mother-in-law had seen it. The "jungle-telegraph" of Ballard still is mighty efficient. But many of the grand children and great-grandchildren of the people who built these houses cannot afford to live in them anymore. However, of the 98 kids in my 6th grade class at Webster, more than 75 still live here, more than 50 in their parents or grandparent's houses. And of those 98 kids, fully 50% were at least 3rd generation Ballardites. What people may not realize is that many of us never left. And many have returned- Erik, the new Director of Development at the Nordic Heritage Museum, grew up 4 houses from me, and went to Webster as well.
What's sad is that many people today don't know their neighbors like we did. When there is someone we didn't know wandering the neighborhood, it was a matter of concern. Now, with all the condos, who is to tell if someone belongs there, or is just casing the building?
And with all the bars, come problems; bars attract crime. We used to have a lot of taverns here; but not full bars...and the clientele was mainly people who lived in the neighborhood.
I think everyone needs to be a lot more vigilant, and call the cops every time you see something suspicious going on.
shallow.end
offlineMember
everywhere was different 40 years ago.
Jules
offlineMember
I'm taling about Ballard 10 years ago, NOT 40.
shallow.end
offlineMember
everywhere was different 10 years ago.
Edog
onlineMember
"Now, with all the condos, who is to tell if someone belongs there, or is just casing the building?"
Take a look at the construction around Ballard. There are more than a few multifamily apartments that clearly predate the condo craze, and fit well within the time frame people describe here with all there warm feelings. Yet, these structures draw no negativity?
I once met a guy who moved here from Minnesota, who first lived in Ballard, but moved away because of a crime wave he said was directly attributable to the giant multifamily buildings that went up in the early 80s.
That was one mans anecdote, but I'm sure there is something too it. Just up the street from me there is a single family home with bars on the doors and windows like this was bad area, funny thing is, by the look of it, those bars have been there a long time.
Ernie
offlineMember
I'm with shallowend. Everywhere changes every 10 years.
The discussion above sounds like the conversations I heard in the early 80's at grandma's house. All the neighborhood old-farts would sit around and drink beer and talk about how the neighborhood was going to hell. I am sure that right now there are some people sitting around in Pueblo CO swearing up and down that the neighborhood has gone down hill since 1985 when all the familys knew each other, and everyone was nice and neighborly.
It's the cycle of life, old people complain and young people get drunk at the the trendy bars that replaced the trendy bars that the old people used to get drunk in. Don't forget that people change over the years too.
SPG
offlineMember
Ernie, you nailed it 100%. And yes Jules, all of us whose great grandparents weren't born in Ballard are evil.
pwhee
offlineMember
All are accurate points - density, economy, etc...
We also know Belltown put effort into cleaning things up - Ballard would be an easy relocation. Further, another thing to consider re: economy is the rental market. Times are tough in housing, vacancies are way way up - I'm sure some landlords are a little less "picky" about who they sign up as tenants, and the rent they charge.
However, I'll bet most property crime (home break-ins) travel here.
Nora Bell
offlineMember
Ernie - You finally put some common sense into this forum. Well done, sir!
BriarRose
offlineMember
But you see Nora you are basing your assumption on your own frame of reference. My family never sat around drinking and whining and they never drank in bars in Ballard either. Many many people never did that. I know Jule’s parents never did either. Maybe your family was that way but I really think most were not. The bars were empty past 7pm in Ballard even in my day let alone in my parent’s day.
shallow.end
offlineMember
the xenophobia is unsettling.
chopper 74
offlineMember
BriarRose, from 6am to 2am, everyday of the week, for the past twenty years, I never saw an empty bar in Ballard. I'm happy that your family wasn't so inclined, but many grew up with an entirely different perspective. Many sat in the car waiting for their folks to stumble out of a bar. That's a fact. Fortunately, that behavior is less acceptable, and less common than it was.
Anyhow, blaming crime on the bars is a mighty thin argument. Promoting irresponsible behaviors time and again is the most obvious cause of increased crime. imho.
Nora Bell
offlineMember
Briar Rose - My parents didn't 'sit around drinking and whining' either. And I'll thank you to leave my personal reference out of this, as I spent most of my childhood in Bellevue anyway. I'm only talking about the last ten years. Sure, Ballard changed in ten years. Can you think of a neighborhood that hasn't? And there aren't any more bars here than there were ten years ago. More restaurants, maybe, and most of those restaurants have bars attached.
But you can't blame the rise in crime on drunks. That just doesn't make any sense.
Jules
offlineMember
The rise in crime is not because of drunks. It's because the demographics have changed dramatically...Ballard went from a blue-collar, single family home neighborhood to a destinatin shopping neighborhood, to a destination drinking neighborhood. The taverns here were mainly full of blue-collar workers, who went home for dinner! I can remember going into the Valhalla (now the Old Peculiar) and the old, old Copper Gate, and you could've shot a cannon through there after 8 PM.
In 1997, I remember clearly when they moved the Red Door in Fremont and built Adobe and a bunch of condos. *full disclsure- my family owned th Red Door until 1978.* A lot of small businesses were pushed out of Fremont because of high rents and I said to someone "bet they come to Ballard Ave, the rents are cheaper." And lo! And behold! And when space came open, new bars came in. Why? Becasue bars are more profitable than retail, especially in a recession.
Bars attract crime. This climate in Ballard attracts drug dealers....why? Because this is where their customers are. The Perfect Storm of homeless people, the recession, bars (perfect for panhandling BTW)drug dealers, drug addicts have all provided a perfect climate for crime. It isn't just about drunks. It's about turning a middle-class neighborhood into Belltown; North Annex.
When the famous bank robber Willie Sutton was asked why he robbed banks, he answered "Because that's where the money is."
SPG
offlineMember
Dive bars in seedy neighborhoods don't even create crime. They're just a meeting point. As is any corner, stoop, house, restaurant, park, etc. People will meet up in these places, and sometimes those people might be criminals, most of the time they're friends and family just meeting up. Close down the bars and people will still meet up, but less money will be in the neighborhood.
If you're talking about fights, sure some idiots who get drunk are more likely to fight, but I've seen very little of this in the bars around here that I go to.
The crime that most people are concerned about is the property crimes like car prowls (not typically committed by people coming out of the bars) burglaries, (also not bar patrons), and robberies (though some people from the bars are the victims, the other patrons aren't driven to robbery by being in a bar).
Nora Bell
offlineMember
Being a barfly for most of my post 21 life, I guess I just don't see the connection here, Jules. I don't see bars attracting crime any more than they did back in the day. Some bars are a little seedier than others, that's all. You can just as easily meet a drug dealer in a park or at the back of a school. And just a note: drug dealers can afford homes, only some of there customers are homeless. Fix the people you fix the problem.
MidWest
offlineMember
You know, technically, bars are drug dealers. Alcohol may be legal, but it is a drug.
Some bars are much seedier than others. Had a friend who went to the old Copper Gate when it was one of the dives of last resort (he'd gotten kicked out of all the rest) in Ballard, and he pulled me in there at 10pm on a Wednesday night. Ugh. Seedy, dark place. Scary people. Had pinball, though!
Didn't Ballard have as many bars as churches back when? Or was that a myth? Was there lots of crime then?
The folks here who are multi-generation Ballardites could weigh in on the history. Ballard had a rough reputation when it was the "shingle capital of the world", but what was it like afterwards? Curious, as a 12 year resident what it used to be like during different eras.
shallow.end
offlineMember
MidWest: jules wrote a book on it. or a few paragraphs and a bunch of photo captions about it.
I'll reiterate what I said earlier. Everywhere is different from what it was 10 years ago, so get off your high horse, Jules. It's not just ballard and it's not because of bars. I'm surprised you haven't blamed the internet yet.
Nora Bell
offlineMember
It may not be seedy anymore, but I'm not sure the new version of the Copper Gate is an improvement. To each their own, I guess.
And from what I see there are fewer seedy bars in Ballard than when I first moved here (7 yrs at this place, but my first apartment twenty years ago was in Ballard).
Nora Bell
offlineMember
Shallow.end - I'm not sure Jules or Briar Rose spend all that much time outside of Ballard. Longing for the old days is one thing but to bemoan that Ballard has gone to hell in a handbasket all the time is getting a little annoying.
Peace, out. Off to the Pub.
BriarRose
offlineMember
" I'm happy that your family wasn't so inclined, but many grew up with an entirely different perspective. " Chopper that was exactly my point. Perspective is different for all.
Nora I didn't even live in WA for 25 years. I never long for the good old days. I consider myself a Seattlite not a Ballardite.
eric
offlineMember
jules, i'm sorry, but simply repeating "bars attract crime" doesn't make it true.
i'd say in general the world becomes seemingly more violent and crime riddled as populations increase, etc, etc.
SPG
offlineMember
Let's say that in any population there is 1 person out of 1,000 who has a tendency to be a criminal. If you live in a town of 500 you have a 50-50 chance of having one. If you live in a town of 100,000 you will have 100 of them.
BriarRose
offlineMember
Consider United States the guns crime stats given in Bowling for Columbine.. Even when population is factored in the US has a much higher incident per capita.
US - 11,127, Germany – 381,France – 255 , Canada – 165, United Kingdom – 68, Australia – 65, Japan – 39.
In the same movie Marilyn Manson stated that the US is a society based on fear and consumption. I agree and also note both have increased over the last 15 years. Americans also often have a sense of inferiority and immaturity; for example the inability to accept someone disagreeing over the value of art etc. or is in any way different. It seems Americans simply don’t’ like one another much. They mistrust one another and take terrible offense when someone does not agree with them. It makes for a more violent society and Ballard is hardly immune. All the police in the world will not change this. Considers that the regular on the street cops in London don’t even carry guns.
shallow.end
offlineMember
Oh get over yourself BriarRose. (1) quoting Michael Moore's stats. (2) citing the feelings of Marilyn Manson (3) saying nothing really relevant other than to steer the conversation to your bitter comments regarding the henry murals. You're negative, cranky and rarely have anything nice to say. You're disliked, because you're a miserable xenophobic crank (hmm. maybe your fear comments apply to yourself) who posts on an internet message board, and not because of some greater American sentiment. I feel very sure you'd be disliked outside of this country as well.
BriarRose
offlineMember
Good heavens you are angry shallow. That is a waste of precious energy.
shallow.end
offlineMember
don't worry. i have some to spare after my 10 mile run this morning.
motorrad
offlineMember
BriarRose-People don't like you because you have shown us who and what you are.
BriarRose
offlineMember
And this should be of concern to me why?
SPG
offlineMember
I should apologize for my earlier comments. The tone you often take, whether intentional or not, is akin to fingernails on a chalkboard to me. The mix of 'dear' and other niceties while spewing the some of the meanest sentiments is particularly annoying to me, and as we see by the number of people saying not so nice things to you, it seems to bother a lot of others as well.
I'm not sure that you really aren't concerned, or that you do take offense to people saying they don't like you but not admitting it. If you are offended or hurt by my comments, then I do apologize. I wish you could make an effort to not be as insulting when voicing your opinion and I will make an effort to not insult you in turn. I am actually quite open to hearing opposing views, though I will defend my own opinion if I believe it to be correct.
If you truly are unconcerned that your neighbors don't like you (to the point where they will openly say so), then you should seek some counseling to work out these issues. It may be rough at first, but with some counseling and the opportunity to face your issues you will be able to live out the rest of your life with much more peace of mind and happiness. Life is a lot more enjoyable when you don't have your fists up all the time. In all seriousness you are showing sociopathic tendencies.
It's a nice day and I'm finishing work, so I will go outside and enjoy a beautiful day. I suggest we all do the same.
BriarRose
offlineMember
But SPG if you read what I post you will see that I am never offended or hurt at all. Why exactly are you not sure of this? I am not the one having meltdowns here. I am also open to hearing other opinions and will voice and defend my view.
Enjoy your day. I was out and about yesterday so plan to enjoy a day at home in my PJs, sorta reading cleaning and playing on the internet.
Jules
offlineMember
Shallowend.
(would that be shallow end of the gene pool?)
I am so sorry you dislike my book. The 20,000 word limit was set by the publisher, and the "few" photos are in fact 240. I have @2000. If my book was good enough for the Chair of the University of Washington Dept. of History, it should be good enough for you. No one put a gun to your head and made you read it.
When your magnus opus comes out, please let me know, as I shall be happy to write a
review.
I think you'll missing my point. For decades Ballard was off the radar from the rest of the city; there was no reason for people to come here, from, say Madison Valley, Columbia City, or Renton.
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