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Bikinni Barristas

(46 posts)

Started 3 years ago by BaLardAss
Latest reply from stopgo

BaLardAss

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Yo,
I've been going to Knotty Bodies, the new bikini espresso place on 58th and 15th. I sometimes feel like the girls aren't all that hot (who I don't tip), though some are good (who I do). We should lobby this place to get its act together.

Posted 3 years ago #
phoo

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So... you tip based on who has the better body and not who gives you good service?

Posted 3 years ago #
gel-sol

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classy.

Posted 3 years ago #
stopthebuzz

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A+ for spelling, too!

Posted 3 years ago #
aballardgirl

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Gel-sol - No kidding. How classy is BaLardAss. He doesn't tip the ones who aren't hot enough for him - but then the poor girl is only probably out 25 cents.

Posted 3 years ago #
danmonaghan

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Guys like ballardass make me embarrassed to be male. We're not ALL dumb pigs, ladies!

Posted 3 years ago #
aballardgirl

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danmonaghan - THANK GOD!

Posted 3 years ago #
MidWest

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Yeesh. I second what danmonaghan said!

Posted 3 years ago #
BaLardAss

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I tip a dollar, not 25 cents. What's piggy about it? The place is about titillation. Everyone's totally upfront about it. Nothing wrong with it. Given that this is the basic premise of the place, why not encourage them to maximize it within their own, set parameters? Also, a tip isn't required when getting a coffee, it's something extra, so why is that so wrong? I'm always polite and respectful to everyone. My business is still valuable to the little establishment and the jobs it provides. Additionally, people routinely behave differently toward people they find attractive and those they do not, including, I would venture, everyone of you. So how is that I'm such a dumb pig? Calling me that seems a little meaner than anything I've done, I think. If you can persuade me that I'm being wrong in some way, I'll change my ways. I'm open to counterarguments here, but none have been presented.

PS-I do admit to being a bad speller.

Posted 3 years ago #
BallardTrees

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How about providing a tip because the barrista prepared your coffee for you and served it in a kind, respectful way? Each barrista is working for her living, and some may be more proficient and dedicated to excellence than others. Their work should earn the tip, not whether their appearance appeals to you.

The owner uses the barristas' lack of clothing and appearance as a marketing ploy to get your patronage. I doubt if the owner set up his coffee stand so that you will "vote" on the looks of the barristas with the size of your tip. That approach would actually destabilize his workforce and lead to disruption, which down the line would affect his profit negatively. At least that's my take on this matter...

Posted 3 years ago #
aballardgirl

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BaLardAss - you are, as some called you a dumb pig, because your comment you tipped the good looking one and didn't tip the ones who weren't. Read BallardTrees - says it all. And from reading your other blogs, you will never be persuaded of being wrong. You don't think you are wrong. And all your words don't change a thing - can't change what you said before.
Just take it for what it is worth - like BallardTrees comments - and maybe learn from it.

Posted 3 years ago #
BaLardAss

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BallardTrees:

Given that the service this business provides clearly and directly includes, as a major component, viewing attractive ladies, it seems reasonable to tip based on satisfaction with that component of the service. Also, all the ladies are good baristas and all are pleasant, so these are constants and, as I said before, a tip is an extra, not a necessity or requirement, so that is the extra I choose to tip for. Also, as tipping is something extra, not giving it to someone isn't an ethical 'minus'.

Now, you state that appearance shouldn't influence tippage, but rather dedication and proficiency. I do not accept that statement about appearance, but even if I granted that dedication and proficiecy were what really counted, I could still say: 'Hey, some of the ladies work harder to keep in shape, to use nice makeup and hair styles, select attractive clothing, and so are in some respects more dedicated and/or effective in providing the service they are hired to do and that I value. I will tip them.'

You note that the owner may not have intended for patrons to 'vote' on his employees with tips. I have no idea if that is true (nor, I imagine do you) . However, if we are to consider the owners perspective, then what he/she certainly should anticipate is that patrons will vote with their purchases. If interested customers find his employees attractive, they will likely give him/her their business more often; if they find them less attractive, they will likely give him/her less of their business. So, the owner certainly did set up his/her coffee shop with the implicit idea of voting based on attractiveness.

How tipping the ladies I like most will 'destablize' the work force, as you say, and hurt the owner's bottom line, I don't see. If anything, such a practice is likely to 'stablize' the work force by retaining more attractive employees, and fewer of the less attractive ones, which would in fact make the execution of this particular business model more, not less efficient.

Posted 3 years ago #
BaLardAss

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aballardgirl:

As I asked above, what is it about saying I tip the better looking one's that makes me either dumb or a pig? I understand the fact that you do think it makes me a dumb pig, but why? I did, by the way read BallardTrees' comments, but found them unpersuasive for the reasons I point out above.

You are right that I don't think I'm wrong. Doesn't pretty much everyone on here, you included, think they are right when they claim something? Why is that wrong of me then? As far as whether I'll be persuaded to change my ways, I really am open to that, but I'm just not convinced by y'all yet. I'm willing to learn, but you aren't really teaching; you're just scolding.

Posted 3 years ago #
Silver

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I think the girls should spit in your coffee or not based on how hot you are.

Posted 3 years ago #
Mondoman

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BLA - you started this thread; don't be offended if the majority of posters don't agree with your behavior.

Posted 3 years ago #
BaLardAss

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I might as well say, before anyone puts a hit out on me, that I don't even go to the bikini stand, I was just being provocative. Personally, I would just be way too embarrassed to go to the stand and don't want to anyhow, so tipping isn't really an issue.

I think it's interesting, though, that very few of you would actually explain to a civil, rational poster with whom you strongly disagreed, why he was wrong, especially when he invited you to do so and expressed a willingness to change his mind. Instead you mostly just offered insults like 'dumb pig' and and unpleasant suggestions, like spitting in my coffee. Actually, I think unwillingness to reason with people we think are offensively wrong is a really big problem these days.

Anyhow, props to BallardTrees for bothering to rationally engage someone he/she strongly disagreed with.

Posted 3 years ago #
Silver

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So you were trolling. I guessed as much.

Posted 3 years ago #
Nora Bell

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Wait. So, you started this thread on a piece of fiction? Dang, I was just starting to enjoy the exchange going on. Especially Silver and BallardTrees contributions.
What a waste of forum space, then.

Posted 3 years ago #
BaLardAss

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The forum seemed so tame ever since Doug11 left us that it seemed time to shake things up a little.

NoraBell, don't worry: I'm sure to post something offensive again soon, but I promise I'll actually believe it next time so people know they aren't wasting their time.

I still don't see, though, that the tipping practice I suggested is unethical. Honestly - I'm not messing around anymore so now you really can hate me for real because even though I don't do it, I think, upon reflection, that I do endorse it as perfectly legitimate. Maybe I should even go do it so that we can get this post fired up again. I'm going to do it an experiment. Let's see if my gut thinks it wrong even though my brain (for now) thinks it's ethically ok.

I have to go out now to do some shopping so I'll go there and do it. You guys should have persuaded me out of it when you had the chance!

Posted 3 years ago #
sammy

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Well I guess it's a moot point now... but...

First: the coffee places I've worked at distribute tips pro-rata for the number of hours each barista works. So the people who work more will get more tips, regardless of what you give an individual barista. So you wouldn't actually be giving her any more money, but rather making her feel good/bad about the gesture. They may distribute tips differently, but this is what I've come across)

Second: There are tons of reasons why people tip well, or poorly, or don't. Some people act like its a grand gesture on their part when they give $8 on a hundred dollar tab because that was the standard back in the (insert decade). Others you would have to be blatantly rude to in order to get anything less than 18% because they (insert reason). Unless you told her why you gave more or less, it is unlikely that she would know it had to do with looks and probably think you're just cheap or out of coins or generous.

So. Even if the barista did know why you tipped her more, she probably wouldn't realize any benefit to it. Whoever works more takes home more - so the argument that this will promote 'hotness' and make others quit doesn't work.

And that's why I think you should stop hypothetically tipping more or less based on looks.

Posted 3 years ago #
Nora Bell

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Very good point, Sammy. I worked in housekeeping and whatever tips I got was mine alone. But I think a lot of people don't realize a lot of places will split tips. So, whatever you tip your waitress is likely also going to the cook, the bartender, the busboy......
BaLardAss, at least Doug11 doesn't invent a forum topic just to get a reaction.

Posted 3 years ago #
cdpenne

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me trol say likey tits cofee hmmm... the best think about MB is it's free. Will double entendre for tips.

Posted 3 years ago #
Xtophe

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BaLardAss simply proves feminists don't have a sense of humor....

Posted 3 years ago #
Elliott

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BAss, if you'd come up with a truly "provocative" topic (Obama, the mayoral race, the weather . . .) instead of coming up with the lame topic of "girls that aren't all that hot", I'd have a heck of a lot more respect for you and what you potentially were intending to do. And Xtophe, dumb response.

Posted 3 years ago #
boardbrown

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This is good stuff. Don't stop now.

Posted 3 years ago #
motorrad

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Xtophe-I thought that funny and apropos.

Elliott-you missed the point as this IS a provocative topic.

Come on PEOPLE!!! I am disappointed in you for a couple reasons. It was an obvious baiting and button pushing. I just REALLY wish OP had put his reasoning in the first post as I think it raises interesting questions. The ideas he brought forth and reasoning behind them are relevant given the business' use of skin and sex as not just a marketing tool but an integral business component. If a business uses skin to bring in customers and the baristas CHOOSE to work there, why doesn't that skin aspect come into play when considering compensation? Dance clubs have to hire women that their clients find attractive or the money would stop. Businesses hire women considered attractive to work their reception desks. The business owner set the rules of the game, the employees accept by working there (there are other jobs), why wouldn't the compensation criteria change according to the new parameters.

I agree that tipping according to 'hotness' at Verite or Java Bean would not be reasonable. But when the skin/sex variable is added as an integral business component, then why shouldn't it be considered? Personally I might tip the Hot baristas less, as they are getting well tipped by others and tend to expect things just because they are hot. And I might tend to tip baristas that are not the magazine cover stereotype, size 0 to 2, a little more.

I am very disappointed that people here were happy and eager to comment when they read a 'sensational' posting and could spew simple, PC, knee jerk EASY reactions. But were disappointed and demeaning when the subject was something that required thought. This should have been interesting once the real topic became clear.

Posted 3 years ago #
gel-sol

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Did you people just discover the internet? Making up fake stories and then people supporting these fake stories! Incredible!

Again, CLASSY.

Posted 3 years ago #
jeffo

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Maybe not classy, but pretty damn funny at times.

Thanks again for the entertainment Doug11, er, I mean BalLardAss!

You've inspired me to visit the local bikini stand. I will judge the barrista on a scale of 1-10, then multiply this by fifty cent for her tip.

Posted 3 years ago #
gel-sol

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Yeah, like Dane Cook funny, who actually isn't funny at all.

Posted 3 years ago #
BaLardAss

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I think Sammy's objections are the strongest so far, but they are more practical than ethical: if they pool tips, tipping won't encourage hotter girls to stick around and less hot girls to move on.

Sammy is also talking about percentage and so forth, but that applies to restaurants and I'm really just talking about this kind of bikini stand where attractiveness is an integral part of the service.

I haven't had a chance, but if anyone does, please drive through Knotty Bodies on 58th and 15th. Just ask if they pool tips. That might help clear up Sammy's objections (our help support them).

Posted 3 years ago #
Kat

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Have any of you been to the Sands?
I worked at the adult store across the street and I swear the UGLIEST woman with BIG man hands and OLD who drove a new Jaguar and bought the bright neon sale crap all the time did better then the beautiful young girls. This is a prefect example that just because your ugly doesn't mean you can't be the best dancer (or a great coffee maker) and still get business. Some people still prefer skills over looks when it comes down to it.

Posted 3 years ago #
BallardTrees

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Thank you, Kat, for your apt observation. Sometimes people are tough enough to buck the corporate media definition of "beauty" and choose their own definitions. I have a hunch these independent-thinking people prefer and reward skills over looks, recognizing that "beauty" is indeed "skin-deep" and the epitome of impermanence. Skill, attitude, courage, perserverence, the ability to see things as they are--those are durable attributes worthy of recognition and they are qualities that improve with time, rather than fade.

Actions matter more than appearance.

And, beauty is, indeed, in the eye of the beholder and everyone, yes everyone, is beautiful in someone's eyes.

Posted 3 years ago #
phoo

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I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet.

The goal of the barista (who is paid hourly) is to show up to work, do a good enough job to stay employed and collect their paycheck. The pay:hours ratio is too low on pay and too high on hours for them to do work stuff on their free time. Work out and starve yourself to get $2 more in tips per day? I don't think so.

The goal of the owner is to make money. He doesn't give a rat's ass what the baristas make in tips. Having the gimmick is enough. If it's not, he'll hire cuter chicks. But it will involve his bottom line, not their tips.

Posted 3 years ago #
Elliott

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Motorrad, I'm sorry I responded. This is one really lame thread.

Posted 3 years ago #
vanillamilk

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cock of the block. don't stop now!

Posted 3 years ago #
Desslok

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On the other hand, why tip? I don't mean waiters at real restaurants, bartenders or people who bring me my food - those people you should tip (and I give the pizza guy big money all the time - doing me a huge favor so I dont have to get off my fat ass? Hell yeah you'll make bank!) But someone who makes coffee? Seriously, that's like tipping the McDonalds counter jockey for handing you a big mac.

Posted 3 years ago #
gurple

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Well played, BLA.

Does anybody know how well Knotty Bodies is doing? They're still open, so I guess they're not bombing completely. But are they getting a lot of rush-hour traffic? Kids from BHS?

Posted 3 years ago #
Nora Bell

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I always see cars in the drive-thru. Looks like they're doing pretty well.

Posted 3 years ago #
BaLardAss

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Phoo:
Baristas often make a lot more than an extra 2 bucks an hour in tips. Tips are important! I'm not proposing, though, that anyone is dedicating their lives ONLY to being presentable at Knotty Bodies, but certainly some ladies are more conscientious about fitness, dress, make up, hair, what have you and those behaviors enhance an important aspect of their job performance and thus can reasonably be described as dedication or proficiency.

Elliot:
If the post were not provocative then you would not be reading and commenting on it. If nothing else, it is provocative to you in that you object to it not being provocative....and that provokes you.

BallardTrees:
You are right that there are many standards of beauty and that there is prototype of beauty that is crammed down our throats by the media, a prototype that is generally hard to attain for most people and in many ways hurtful to people. However, the question here is not whether tipping on a media-based standard of beauty or a more idiosyncratic standard of beauty is more ethical, but whether tipping on the basis of beauty at all is ethical at a bikini style coffee shack. Insofar as beauty fades and is impermanent, this is generally true of all human qualities. We are all fleeting, but some would say impermanence can impart even greater beauty to that which is with us but briefly. So, I don't think impermanence is a good standard to judge whether a characteristic is valuable.

More importantly, though, has anyone stopped by there and asked if they pool their tips? Could someone please do that???!!!!!!

Posted 3 years ago #
Elliott

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What's keeping you from doing that?

Posted 3 years ago #
Ernie

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Elliott said:

"Motorrad, I'm sorry I responded. This is one really lame thread."

What's keeping you from doing that?

Posted 3 years ago #
Elliott

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You're right, Ernie. My mistake.

Posted 3 years ago #
Ernie

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It's hard to stop huh? I don't know why I keep posting sometimes.....

Posted 3 years ago #
BaLardAss

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Well, great! Now knotty bodies out of business and I don't think anyone ever checked to see if they pooled their tips. Thanks a lot guys!!!!!!

Posted 11 months ago #
JoeInBallard

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Holy Crap! there are more stupid people than I ever imagined!

Posted 11 months ago #
stopgo

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I wish this place was still here. All the good bikini barista shops are being overrun by charitable car camping lots and halfway housing.

Posted 11 months ago #