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Ballard Commons Park

(45 posts)

Started 2 weeks ago by justcurious
Latest reply from justcurious

justcurious

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Fights in this park have almost become a daily occurrence. I like walking through this park but have found myself taking the long way around it to avoid coming upon any trouble. Has anyone else noticed this?

Posted 2 weeks ago #
nwcitizen

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I have not but a friend told me recently that he witnessed an older man being seriously assaulted by a group of about 20 youth around midnight last Friday night.

Are these our Ballard youth or is there something else going on? Whatever it is, it is not right.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
jubbjubb

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I had this conversation just 15-hours ago as Bela (the dog), my wife & I walked along the edge of the park... Apparently one of the gentlemen took great offense to being called Charlie when his name is Roger, and was loudly verbose about his objection. Then there was the chunky lady a few feet away on the cell phone screaming about how she's not afraid of the person she was conversing with and suggested that individual should come on down so that she could cut that person. In the old days (I think that's about 5-years ago), the original skate park & old grocery store didn't seem to attract quite the same level of activity... happy skaters & queit bums. Seems to me if the sprinklers were cranked up extra high for a minute or so a few times an hour in the evenings it would be of great benefit. If I had kids, I wouldn't take them there day or night. They need to get that shelter around 15th & Mercer reopened to draw the crowd away.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Confusatron

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"Then there was the chunky lady a few feet away on the cell phone screaming about how she's not afraid of the person she was conversing with and suggested that individual should come on down so that she could cut that person."

Sounds like you were walking by the park around the same time yesterday that I was. Lately, as in the last few weeks, the park has gotten to the point where I don't walk the dog in there anymore. I frequently see the drunks there yelling at each other. I stopped walking the dog there when they would stumble over and try to pet her. If they can't even keep themselves on their feet to get to the dog, why would I want them to touch her? Then they get all pissed when I tell them to f*** off.

The saddest part is the kids I see in there hanging out with the older vagrants during the day. I want to tell them that they have a perfect example of why they should go back to school right in front of them, but I'm sure they wouldn't care.

Does the SPD still have the authority to ban people from Ballard parks temporarily? Might need to start pushing this again. Ballard Commons has been taken over.

By the way, I believe the chunky woman was part of the couple that pushes a cart around with a dog and cat in it and tries to start conversations with people by saying, "Can I ask you a question?" To which I always answer no. Maybe there is trouble in paradise?

Posted 2 weeks ago #
TumTum

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Oh man, when I walk up 20th, I feel like I'm transversing the Bermuda Triangle of Homeless Strife. There's a woman in Ballard Commons shouting expletives at a drunk man in front of the Ballard Library gesticulating wildly at a bedraggled man pushing a shopping cart up to Saint Luke's.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Gilman Girl

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I witnessed 2 teenage girls ask the older men hanging in the park to buy them booze.
All people involved looked as this was an everyday occurance.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
justcurious

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Any ideas how we can change things?

Posted 2 weeks ago #
jubbjubb

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Confusatron--

I think you're right about who that lady on the phone was. Further, I think "Roger" is her companion. If you happen to see me, do say "hi"; 9 times out of 10 I'll have a white w/ brown spots, pitbull-mix, and 10 times out of 10 I'll be wearing a hat (probably Indiana Jones-style).

justcurious--

My wife suggested vigillante patrols & I just came into possession of an old Louisville Slugger. Perhaps a mildly-intimidating, coordinated civilian patrol (that would stay within all the laws of course). I'll take the 6-7PM shift, might even brave the 10-11PM shift on occasion.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
mc7

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I'm hoping that when QFC re-opens more people will be around and help to disperse the homeless who are congregating there. In the meantime I think the worst thing we could do is start to avoid it, giving the derelicts a sense of ownership. I for one will continue to walk my nice big dog thru there.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Roadkill

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"I witnessed 2 teenage girls ask the older men hanging in the park to buy them booze.
All people involved looked as this was an everyday occurance. "

Solid technique. I used to employ that move when I was underage.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Ernie

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X2 mc7, I walk my cute little dog right through their little hobo camp whenever I'm down there on a poo march just to make the point that it's my park too.

"Then they get all pissed when I tell them to f*** off." Good for you Confusatron, they definitely need to hear that more often....

Posted 2 weeks ago #
vestlandsjenta

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Interesting to hear that this isn't just an issue for me while out with my dog on walks. I get hollered at by clearly intoxicated people trying to talk to me and inappropriately interact with my dog.

Also have had problems when walking a rescue dog (not at this park but just down the block) that cannot be approached by strangers. My pleas to have one particular person back off and not approach the dog was met unheeded - I think this person was mental unstable as opposed to drunk - but anyway, he insisted that he would pet the dog and I was surrounded and couldn't restrain the man from closing in on the dog. Then the dog lunged at him as I warned the man he would (got him too), and he informed me I was lucky he was in a good mood or he would snap he dog's neck. It's exhausting!

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Confusatron

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""Then they get all pissed when I tell them to f*** off." Good for you Confusatron, they definitely need to hear that more often.... "

Apparently they do, as they haven't left yet. I'll keep working on it.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
ED

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The park has been getting alot worse, concerning the drunks and the kids. I've been spending time on this block since the original Ballard Bowl (skate park) was there. Before there wasn't comfortable grass to lay on and I feel that's why there are more of the problem related people there. I was even one of those people in the beginning of the summer that felt good that the "less" fortunate people had a place to be and be in peace. But the peace has ended. I don't think the cops really care either. I've called them a couple of time about the kids and gotten little response. Wasn't there a new City Ord. passed about banning individuals from the parks for fighting?

Posted 2 weeks ago #
nwcitizen

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I understand people's concern about public drunkenness, loud confrontations and foul language especially when children are around. This needs to be addressed and probably can be through enforcing the parks exclusion zone and enlisting the help of the Downtown Emergency Service Center outreach team.

However, in my mind there is a huge difference in degree between verbal violence and physical violence. My concern was about the physical assault of one man by a group of twenty (20) youth.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Underpants Gnome

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ED,
Are you calling the non-emergency police number? 206-684-0850 I have said it before, but I always get a good response when I call to report the vagrants drinking, peeing and generally causing trouble across the street from my office. The cops usually pull up withing 20 minutes and have a chat with the trouble makers to move them along. Of course, they may just be moving along to the park and I know this is not a long term solution. But at least I don't have to watch them use the alley and doorway as their toilet. My impression is that the cops do want to help when called. However, more emergency situations will get a quicker response.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
ED

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Thanks UPG, no I called 911. I just programmed the non-emerg # into my phone. They used to show up pretty quick. But the last two times there was no response or it took longer then I was around.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Jules

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The Fat Girl with the pit bull really yanks my chain. She asks me EVERY SINGLE DAY for money...and I have never once given it to her, and frankly, this summer, told her off. She is a well known shoplifter and has been banned from most of the stores in Ballard.

When we had the Wuff Da! Dog Day of Ballard in the Ballard Commons park she came up to me at the registration table and started her spiel and I told her "I know who you are, and I need you to leave immediately, or I will call the police." Unbelieveably enough, at the very end, when we were packing up, my back was turned just long enough when I was at my car that she ripped me off of a couple of leftover prizes. One of the main reasons I had the event (besides getting to see all the cute pooches) was in fact to take over the park for at least a while, and since I had a permit, to be able to kick out the vagrants, at least for one afternoon. The more the community uses the park, the less comfortable the vagrants will feel being there.

Hilariously enough, on Halloween night, The Fat Girl was sitting in front of the insurance agencey between BalMar and the Smokeshop, and she yelled at me "Aren't you talking to me anymore?"

I suspect when QFC opens, the panhandlers will have a field day hitting up shoppers. BTW, the other day one of them said to me "Can you help a brother out with $20?" (whatever happened to "spare change?") I'm afraid I went balistic and said "Twenty dollars? TWENTY DOLLARS? I'm unemployed, you should give ME twenty dollars!"

Since SHARE and the other homeless programs/free lunch/food bank programs in Ballard have increased, these people have moved in...10 years ago it was rare to get panhandled. Now it is becoming like San Francisco...bum every 4 feet. What did the do-gooders expect? They basically made it attractive for the homeless to come to Ballard; what did they think they were going to do during the day when they weren't at a shelter? I for one am sick and tired of running the gauntlet of the homeless, vagrants, drunks and drug addicts every day in Ballard, and I suspect I am not alone.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Confusatron

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You are definitely not alone. I think most people are sick of it. Maybe telling them to "f off" isn't the nicest thing to say to them, but I don't care anymore. I am sick of being hassled by them. They've taken over the park. On rainy days, they take over the library entrance. I hate seeing parents with their kids at the park, constantly looking over their shoulders at the bums, just to make sure they aren't going to cause any trouble. I'm sick of the trash they leave everywhere. They leave behind shopping carts full of refuse. It stinks and it is disgusting.

I realize that some vagrants are just folks who have fallen on hard times. That sucks and I feel bad for them. Some of them are mentally ill and need care, but for whatever reason aren't getting it. I feel bad for them as well. But then some of them are just drunks and addicts who have chosen to drop out of society. I have no pity for them. But whatever leads people to a life on the streets, it is not an excuse to:
1. Harass people.
2. Make people feel that a public area is unsafe.
3. Drink (among other things) in public.
4. Leave their garbage wherever they want to.

As an aside, there is one group that is at the park almost every day. It is usually several guys with a boom box playing oldies. Have you ever actually listened in on their conversations? They are usually so drunk, they can't even communicate with each other. They will sit there and yell at each other about completely unrelated topics. As much as I hate the fact that they are there, it is pretty funny.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Jules

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While we're on the subject: since when was the goal of the Seattle Public Library to provide a warm haven for the homelsss to watch porn on their computers? I've worked plenty of places that blocked certain websites (facebook, myspace) so how hard is it to block porn? I am less than thrilled to see that my tax dollars go to support the pornography habits of the homelsss. Anyone walking by could see this easily, including children.
I went to the downtown library recently to do some research, and I will never go back- I can do the same research at the UW. The place was absolutely jam packed with the homeless, taking up every seat- and the stench was unbearable. Recently I stumbled across a website for librarians; trust me, they are not happy about this either.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
cdpenne

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I just walked through Commons on the way to drop off my Ballot. I walk through there pretty often just to be a presence. There were no bums there tonight. Perhaps it's too cold. Not to long ago I was walking through there with my family and some guests from out of town and I had just finished reading about the fellow with the white pit-mixed breed who was turning the dog loose at the dog parks to fight. Interestingly, there was a fellow there with a dog similar to the description hanging with the pack of bums by the out house. So while everyone else is watcing the skaters put on a real nice show, I'm wondering if I'm going to have to incapacitate or kill a dog. I'm mostly a small town boy and when I was younger I thought this kind of stuff was just what made a city so enthralling. Now I'm just pissed, and perhaps just a little to eager to go a wee little bit vigilante.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Xtophe

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"I am less than thrilled to see that my tax dollars go to support the pornography habits of the homelsss"

That's what they call 'social justice' in Seattle.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Barney Stinson

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Thank you liberal do gooders for bringing these types to Ballard!

I am so glad that my tax dollars go towards caring for bums and not towards improving our infrastructure!

Seattle: We won't hesitate to raise taxes for money to give to bums, but don't you dare attempt to raise our taxes to improve OUR lives!

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Jules

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Thank YOU Barny Stinson. BTW, as I am in Ballard walking around pretty much every day, I ask each and every bum that panhandles me (and the guys selling Real Change) where they are from, just to satisfy my own curiousity. GUESS WHAT? Not one of them is from Seattle. At least not one that I have spoken to.

So why do they come here? Because our uber-politically-correct liberal-leaning city has made it attractive for them to do so. Recently there was a story in the paper about the closing of Elliott Bay Books J & M Cafe and other Pioneers Square businesses, and why people don't want to go there anymore. "because of the parking and the panhandling." Ballard is in serious danger of being the next neighborhood on that list.

I was at the open house at KAVU last week, and the homeless woman with the collection of rotting food in grovery carts at Ballard Commons park was going through the food line. I mentioned to the young man working there that they might consider throwing away the chips and getting some new ones, since God only knows what is on her hands.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Jules

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CDpenne, I am consideringn investing in a stun gun myself...I do carry pepper spray,but I don't know how effective that would be if a pit bull attacked The Naughtiest Dog in Ballard.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
ED

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Xtophe and Barney, I think liberals don't enjoy the problems of the homeless either. But what do you (I'm assuming your conservities/libertarian)have to offer as a solution. I think many liberals attempt to be as compationate as possible towards humans, even the ones with little ability to help themself or climb out or addiction or mental illness. That doesn't mean we don't support keeping our parks and business fronts safe and clean. So.... what do you think or what have your read about effective ways to deal with these issues? Thanks

Posted 2 weeks ago #
stopthebuzz

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oh here she goes with the "not from around here" bit. That took longer than I was expecting.

bookstores are also closing because of the internet and digital media. You can't throw out anecdotal evidence from a few quotes and plant the blame solely there.

You don't need a stun gun, and enough with the breed stereotyping (although I know you love your stereotypes.) Carry some water.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
wildernessbarbie

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Jules-I recently heard something about wasp spray being a better weapon than pepper spray. You have a much longer range than the typical pepper spray, although the canister will be a lot larger. However, the jury is still out: http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/waspspray.asp

I'd be more worried about Dalmations than a Pit. They can be nasty, ill-mannered and quick to bite dogs. I've seen several bites and near misses with Dalmations. Any time Disney makes a movie with dogs in it, the puppy mills start churning out low quality, in-bred dogs ASAP to meet demand I think, ruining the breed.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Jules

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I don't think water is going to stop a pit bull attack. Or any dog attack, for that matter. My Shepherd was once attacked by a black lab in our yard, and I turned the hose full force on him. Exsentially ineffectual. Maybe a firehose would have some effect, buy I don't happen to have one, and it would be bulky to carry on a walk.

Bookstores are not the only businesses closing in Pioneer Square, BTW. J& M. Saloon. Trattoria Michelli. "Mitchell started Trattoria Mitchelli on Yesler 32 years ago. He announced last month he's closing the late-night Italian eatery. Too little business, too much crime." crimehttp://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2009082670_danny19.html

Gee. I was wondering how long it was going to take for "stopthebuzz" to jump all over me. It took longer than I was expecting.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Jules

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Chows can also be nasty and unpredictable. A chow went after the dog at Sunset Hll Park ...but there are very few chows around town, and a whole lot of pitbulls.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
phoo

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Devil's Advocate here again.

I think Jules has a point about the pit bull. Not because it is a Pit Bull, but look at who is raising it. Certain breeds do have personality traits... you wouldn't ask a shitzu to be a guard dog, but that does NOT mean every pit is a killer or unsuitable for a pet. They DO have those jaws that lock so a bite is more serious. I think Pit Bulls can make very fine pets when raised responsibly. But with all we've heard from this couple, are you *sure* he's been raised responsibly?

I agree heavily with most of the sentiment on this thread, but one thing was mentioned was "consuming alcohol in public." If one is homeless, then by definition you own no private space, therefore if you have a drink, it will probably be in a public place. I'm really not defending drunken bums, just that if you've got no private space, you're probably going to sleep in public, drink in public (if you drink), pee in public, etc. Pretty much your life is lived in the public eye with little privacy. It is unpleasant for everyone. Of course, I suppose if you stay drunk enough for long enough you'd care about it less, but that just aggravates the problem of the rest of society hating you and collectively suffering blight and occasional danger.

"Not from around here." It is possible that bums import specifically for social services, but it's probably just as or more likely that they become bums *after* coming to the region. I think it would justify outrage if the homeful population were >95% native and the homeless population were <5% native. I would say that the population of Seattle is made up of at LEAST 50% of non-natives. Therefore, it is very difficult to be outraged or suspicious when a bum is not native.

</devils advocate>
I think having more regular events at the park is the key. I specifically thought of Wuff Da - with all those happy dogs in the park, there just wasn't room for the homeless. Making it regular means attendance will eventually increase if folks have fun. If folks get used to going to the park, maybe they'll go at other times too, increasing the regular citizens:bums ratio.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
stopthebuzz

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My Shepherd was once attacked by a black lab in our yard,

BAN BLACK LABS!!!!

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Barney Stinson

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ED,

I actually consider myself to moderate, as I often don't understand the extremes of the left or the right.

But to answer your question, I would stop paying for these services. They will slowly leave, going to other cities that happily fork over their hard earned money to freeloaders. Hell, Portland is 10x better at this than Seattle is, and its only 180 miles away! Call for a temporary tax increase, by them all train tickets, and let Portland have them!

Posted 2 weeks ago #
maitland

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During the Market St. trick or treat, I encountered a bummy guy harrassing a young mom who was out with her 3 small kids, being inappropriate and clearly making her uncomfortable. Later, he tried to catch my son's eye to show him a "magic trick". I think it was the crowd that was making him kind of excitable, because he seemed really fired up. I just felt really bad for that young woman.

However, what appalled me almost as much, were the two clipboard holders who were trying to stop people who were out trick or treating with their families. It was probably Washpirg or maybe the Larouche people, but that was just so over the line. If you're just walking down the street, fine, you're fair game, but when you're obviously out trick or treating with a bunch of excited kids, that's not the right time.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Nora Bell

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Pit Bulls have traits that makes them ideal for dog fighting. BUT to ban an entire breed because of what a group of lowlifes use them for is not right. What happens to this breed then? How many will be euthanized? My brother had a pit bull from puppyhood to death and he was one of the sweetest dogs in the world. On the other hand my nephew was almost mauled to death by an Akita.
A real solution to the pit bull issue, IMO, would be to up the penalty for dog fighting. And up the penalty for any kind of animal abuse.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Jules

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"Seattle is the best place in the world to be homeless!"
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2009282089_danny31.html

Posted 2 weeks ago #
XL

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Ballard and in fact the whole of Seattle is changing for the worse - people that were barely hanging on are now tossed out on the street. It is the economy. One the common problems about being homeless, apart from the depression, is the isolation. I think that sometimes all they want is to acknowledged and treated like human beings. In those instances a kind word goes a long way. The problem is the ones that on the street due to their own choices like Fat Chick with Pit Bull. Those few, those loud and obnoxious and aggressive ones make our lives and the homeless that are trying to claw their way back to society extremely difficult. I never give money to pan handlers though I do give to the local Red Cross and Real Change. That said, public spaces belong to all of us and when drunks and addicts take them over, we lose them. Maybe there should be regular events there - like maybe a Saturday craft market. How about if we can talk the Ballard Community Band into giving a performances there? Perhaps we can talk the local schools into having some sort of Carnival to raise some money there. Just thinking about events that could bring some people and allow us get our part back.

Is the group aware that a homeless hotel is planned to be built in the now empty lot behind Ballard Blossom?

Posted 2 weeks ago #
shallow.end

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I like this quote from that story, Jules: "They are treated like human beings."

Posted 2 weeks ago #
Barney Rubble

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The park is clearly a problem. I drive past regularly and can't believe the amount of loitering that is going on.

And those kids... They are YOUR kids. They are from somewhere local and they aren't there to skate the bowl. On a recent pass it was noticeable how the young people were interacting with the homeless and it's definitely cause for concern. You see the same thing in front of the Mrs Spots Chai Tea place. My mom always said "if you run with dogs, you catch their fleas".

The thing you have to considerd about the previous bowl was that there was only room for skaters.

Now, on to garbage cart lady. The trail of garbage this woman leaves in her wake is unreal. Time to take a lap around Ballard in a truck and clean this up once and for all. I might kick down a few bucks for a run to the dump.

Posted 2 weeks ago #
ED

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I skate at the bowl and see those kids all the time. They have even been accused of some of the tagging in the bowl this summer. It's really unfortunate. I even think I know where some of them reside. What can really be solved, if the parents are doing much parenting or even caring. Of course this is an assumption. I'm just glad to see that people that are posting on here see those kids as seperate from the bowl. Thank you

Posted 2 weeks ago #

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