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Take back our parks , library and our streets

(75 posts)
  • Started 2 weeks ago by Jules
  • Latest reply from seattledude
  1. Jules

    Jules

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    I went out yesterday for @1/2 half hour to get a prescription; in that short amount of time I was panhandled 4 times. I've been reading people's comments about witnessing the homeless have sex in the library bathrooms, watching porn on the computers, washing in the library drinking fountaink and I've seen the drug deals myself in all the parks, and on the street.

    I think it's time to get the City ordinance (passed by Mark Sidran) forbidding sitting on the sidewalk during business hours enforced. I think that it's time we start a petition to do what Tacoma did; ban panhandling.

    We need to take back the parks so that they are safe for us. How about seeing if we can get Tai-Chi classes at the Ballard Commons park? Perhaps a certain day and time each week that people cuuld meet after work with their dogs? Trust me, the Dept. of Parks & Rec is willing to help in any way they can to get the transients out of the parks. I am going to work on getting badminton nets set up in the park in the spring and summer; there is no where in this corner of Seattle to play badminton, and it would be a hoot.

    In the last few years I've watched my beloved neighborhood become Skid Row, North Annex. We will have a new mayor and a new city council; let's exert some pressure to clean up Ballard for the citizens of Ballard; not making it more of a convient squat for trnsients and drug addicts.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
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    justcurious

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    Do you know if Tacoma has seen a difference since they put a ban on panhandling?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  3. shallow.end

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    For the record: I walked roughly a mile from my house to get coffee and then turned in the opposite direction and walked to the bus stop and was panhandled zero times.

    There are several local gyms and fitness centers that conduct outdoor boot camp, conditioning and yoga classes. Perhaps you could contact them and suggest a handful of problem parks for one or more of their classes.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  4. jubbjubb

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    I generally walk the dog from about 6 - 7 and Bela likes heading throught Ballard Commons. She also likes bumping into her same old friends daily. Perhaps others would like to make a regular date of it. Maybe making it a defacto dog park (on-leash at present) for an hour or so a night would help a bit. I don't think it would clear out the bums necessarily, but until the condo's & QFC get opened up it might deter some criminal activity to have a bunch of folks and their dogs running amok.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  5. ballardbard

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    Jules, I too have noticed an increasing number of homeless people in Ballard since I moved here 7 1/2 years ago. There used to be a dozen or so people, who floated between the Locks, Golden Gardens, the park by the VFW and downtown Ballard. On a recent bike ride through town and to Golden Gardens, I counted over a dozen carts and small encampments and saw twice as many people populating them.

    I frequent the library and find myself assualted by the rank odor every time I browse the paperbacks and magazines. I recently had to use the bathroom to wash my hands and was surprised to learn that the doors can no longer be closed because of what happens in the bathrooms. While I am not a parent, as a child, I spent many hours in the library near my home. I doubt many parents in our neighborhood would send let their kids spend any time in our library without them.

    I am no longer willing to sit on many benches in our lovely neighborhood, as I have more than once encountered a local drunk, passed out and sleeping in his own piss...I'd be particularly careful at the new outlook by the old Hiram's and near Commodore Park on the south side of the locks. I've seen men sleeping in the doorway of the VFW, squatting in half built townhomes and sleeping in the woods at the local parks.

    What do I do about it? I serve on board for organizations focused on Housing and Homelessness reduction. I volunteer at local non-profits. I photograph the homeless and post pictures to raise awareness that after years of progress, homelessness is on the rise again and we are losing ground everyday.

    Why?
    1. Donations are down and need is up. Foodbanks, shelters, drug and alcohol programs are all seeing clients increasing and finding decrease.
    2. More families are facing homelessness due to job loss, foreclosures or both.
    3. Funding from property taxes and mortgage recording fees is down, which trickles down to every agency and organization in the state.

    I think your ideas to bring the community together and to organize more family and neighborhood oriented activities are great. I will be there to support you and to participate. But, I think we need to consider this homeless, transient population as well. Where are they to go, to Phinney Ridge, to Greenwood? Ignoring them and pushing them out will not solve the problem amd we need to consider what will do that.

    Here's a few ideas:
    1. Trespass them from the library and parks based on the laws that allow that. For example, you must be clean when you are at the library. Allow them to return only if they agree to participate in NA/AA sessions and abide by all rules/laws, then host the sessions at the library.
    2. The city purchases a shower truck and rotates it throughout the city to neighborhoods with high homelessness. Get them clean and keep them clean to reduce public health risks. Have an expert in services available to disposition people and see if they can be assisted and transitioned from homelessness.

    What other ideas are there? I think we all agree that this is a problem facing our community so let's see if our community can come together and solve it.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  6. SPG

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    Ballardbard, I'm surprised that someone who works with the homeless wouldn't recognize that these people we're having problems with are the drunken bums who happen to be homeless. Outreach and housing isn't what they're looking for.
    I hate to say it but I think taking away a lot of their comforts and conveniences will be the only way to get them to seek help or change their lifestyle. I'm all for providing more housing and counseling, but these guys aren't interested in that. They're more interested in getting drunk/high and having no responsibilities. As long as they can get drunk or high they'll be here in the neighborhood making life unpleasant for everyone else. If the police would enforce the public intoxication and drinking in public ordinances we'd have a heck of lot fewer bums.
    As to Shallow End not being panhandled and Jules being panhandled multiple times, it's a simple case of the panhandlers know who looks like a good mark. I don't get panhandled that often, but I see them panhandling and getting intimidatingly close to people. If a bum got that close to my face he knows he'd get shoved away, but isn't worried as much about an older woman shoving him.

    *Although most bums are homeless, not all homeless are bums and we know which we're dealing with here.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  7. marigold

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    I haven't been pan-handled in Ballard and I am a gal who is offically scrawny. Or maybe it's more fair to say I probably have been but I find it so easy to ignore that it doesn't even come on my radar, thus I can't think of any times I was.

    That being said, obviously this is very bothersome to some folks. I agree with Jubjub. Being a presence in our parks and neighborhoods will send a message. I hope that when the QFC and apartment come on line, that particular area will tidy up.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  8. Edog

    Edog

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    I bring my dog to the park, and a play ball with her. Vagrants or not.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  9. Nora Bell

    Nora Bell

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    Okay, it's been a slow day so I think I'll take a dip in the homeless shark tank.
    SPG, you are right in a way. As the daughter of an alcoholic I can tell you they only want the booze. NOTHING else matters, food shelter, family, friends, nothing. But that doesn't mean they are beyond help. Some may be but not all. The problem is reduced resources. If memory serves AA is donation based alcohol treatment. So, ballardbard might have something resembling a real solution.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  10. SPG

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    Nora, I don't think they're beyond help, I just don't think they're currently interested in help. If they're drunk and (relatively) comfortable, why change? If on the other hand being drunk in public becomes a quick trip to uncomfortably sober up in the county lockup or getting an expensive ticket every other day, I think they might start to consider cleaning up their act.

    God I hate when I sound like a republican... I'm all for more long term solutions to keep people on the edge from falling into the category of drunken bum, and rehabilitating the ones that do, but right now I think we've made being a drunken bum in Seattle too easy an option.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  11. ballardbard

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    SPG-I am completely aware that our escalating population of homeless are drunks, which is why they are harder to help than other populations. But because these populations are increasing, they will get the focus of most funding in services. It is always easy to help those that want it.

    The only way to try to solve the issues of homeless addicts is drug/alcohol counseling and services. Incarceration is one solution certainly, although can also turn a drunk into an institutionalized criminal. An expensive ticket issues to someone who won't or can't pay it is useless. I am simply saying that "moving them" out of Ballard doesn't solve the problem, just moves it. We need to figure out how to solve it, even if it is to mandate counseling to avoid lockup.

    It may like saving starfish, but maybe a few lives get better somehow rather than just de-humanized to the point of indifference.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  12. Nora Bell

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    Most of them don't want help, true. The booze is all they've got left. And locking them up might be detox them in a painful enough way to have them thinking twice, but unless they get constant supervision the first thing they'll want on release is a drink. Again, no resources for that type of thing. Totally temporary.
    There has to be a middle ground somewhere between coddling them and shoving them off into another neighborhood (didn't work for Beltown and won't work for Ballard).

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  13. motorrad

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    I have been thinking taking up the 'life'. When I am stressing and rushing to the post office or bank, and I see the usual suspects hanging with a 40, thats a big beer BTW, socializing with their friends, I have occasionally wondered what the hell am I doing. I already have a van to live in. Free wi-fi available. Hanging out and drinking all day seems attractive.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  14. SPG

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    bard, There's obviously a problem and downside to just locking them all up, but on the other hand there's a reason we have laws against public intoxication and drinking in public. We can get into a long debate about the merits and pitfalls of laws that end up criminalizing homelessness, but the reality here is that we have some very aggressive drunken bums around who don't seem to think that there are any consequences or repercussions to their actions.
    Look at the other two homeless related posts today, a drunken transient steals from Trader Joes and crashes his bike in the getaway requiring EMS, and another transient attacks a 28 year old woman in the middle of the day.

    Moto, there was a piece on NPR a while back talking to a couple guys who became homeless for a while and one of the big unanticipated drawbacks for them was celibacy. I'd think hygiene would also be a drawback. For me, I kinda like having a couch under my butt and a roof over my head when I want a beer in nasty weather.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  15. Gilman Girl

    Gilman Girl

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    Today is nasty....
    mmm beerz. mmm mmm good!

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  16. Nora Bell

    Nora Bell

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    Was the Trader Joe's guy a transient? I though he was just a random idiot.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  17. SPG

    SPG

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    ...yeah, don't tempt me. The computer is rendering slower than ever and I'm not really that motivated to do real work today.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  18. SPG

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    Nora, That might have been an assumption on my part, but who else would be piss drunk before noon and stealing more?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  19. Jules

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    BTW, yesterday was a pretty slow day for me being panhandled only 4 times. Usually it's a lot more than that, depending on if I go to Safeway or not.
    Here's a story about what Tacoma did:

    "A little over a year ago, police and social workers began giving people in Tacoma’s outdoor slums a choice: Agree to be housed in a shelter or an apartment with social services, settle arrest warrants, or get out of town." Oot of the 300 people they found living in the camps, only 70 took them up on it.

    http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/columnists/merryman/story/190353.html

    It's not the responisbility of the residents of Ballard to fix the problems of the homeless/vagrants/alcoholics/drug addicts, and that is not what I am suggesting. What I am suggesting is that our neighborhood is being taken over by bums, and we are all putting up with it. You get what you settle for. These people aren't local residents down on their luck. Most of them are from out of town who have come here because we have such good programs for them, a relatively mild climate, and an uber-liberal city.

    Do we really want our new Library turned into a place where the homeless watch porn, solict sex and engage in prostituion in the bathrooms, as well as drug deals? Do you really want to walk around the needles in the 3 parks in downtown Ballard? Are you happy your tax dollars are going to pay for it?

    For anyone who has just moved here in the last couple of years, I assure you, it wasn't always this way. The very first time I ever saw a homeless person in Ballard was in May, 1990, and I remember being absolutely astonished. Even in the last 2 years, the number of vagrants has skyrocketed, and what used to be a problem only in downtown Ballard is now moving into more residential areas.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  20. motorrad

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    As for taking up the 'life' I would wait until next spring for the better weather and after snowboarding season.

    it irks me that if SPG and I were at the park drinking some beers talking art and snowboarding that the one cop driving through ballard that week would spot us and ticket us. But they turn their heads to the BS that goes on regularly by the 'disadvantaged'. Screw that! If anyone should be able to drink in the park it should be the people that pay into the system not drain it. The crap I have seen go on day or night is ridiculous. I wish the loud angry guy with the beard that is always yelling at people and hassling all non-homeless people in loud intimidating ways would get his comeuppance. That might be one 911 call that takes a while to dial.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  21. shallow.end

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    Can we focus on ideas and actually formalize some regarding encouraging and scheduling more use of the park?

    I've called a few friends who are members of local gyms and fitness centers and asked them to bring up the suggestion using the park for outdoor classes. I thought it would sound better first coming from a member. More help/people bringing it up wouldn't hurt! Also I'm running short on time today. Why did work have to get soo busy?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  22. ballardmike

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    Eight years of war... shitty economy... wall streeters getting away w/ murder... full moon... whaddaya do.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
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    blite

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    How about a city wide ordinance banning folks from camping in their cars/vehicles on city streets? That might be a start to make our city less welcoming to vagrants. That along with banning panhandling would take care of a good chunk of our city's homeless problem. Our city can't solve homelessness, mental illness or poverty but we can make it less of a problem for our city by not making Seattle seem like a haven for homeless.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  24. ballardmike

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    Yeah... make 'em all move to Euphrata.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  25. Jules

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    We don't have to solve the problems of homelessness/alcoholism/drug abuse and we can't, either. But our neighborhood is absorbing more than our fair share of these people...they came from somewhere else, they can go back to wherever they came from. We have made Ballard a haven for them...free food, shelters, plenty of panhandling opportunities, comfy parks to hang out in and drink/sleep/do drugs, the library; all warm and cozy to hang out, watch porn, etc.

    There are 50,000 people living in the 98117 and 98107 zip codes, and yet a few dozen vagrants are turning our neighborhood into a slum.

    Re: the Ballard Commons Park:
    Regular, scheduled activities would help to make it less vagrant friendly.
    Tai-Chi?
    Bootcamp?
    Badminton?
    Regular evening/morning dog-walking meet-ups?
    Yoga?
    Volleyball?

    One of the benefits of working with the Dept. of Parks & Rec is that we can get permits to do this, and with a permit we can in fact exclude people from the park for those hours.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  26. Nora Bell

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    That doesn't work, Jules. For one, there are more homeless and panhandlers in Seattle in general. And, second, Beltown already tried that. They still have homeless, they just managed to shove some of the ones that were there to, well, us. We may get rid of a few for now, but we'll get more again later.
    I do like the idea of using the parks, though. That's good for the neighborhood as a whole. We're lucky enough to have pocket parks, we should enjoy them.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
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    BallardENTP

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    I'm not interested in solving the problem of homelessness. What I'm interested in is moving them somewhere else. As Jules said, you get what you settle for. Let's move them to a community outside of Ballard that chooses to accept the problem.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  28. User has not uploaded an avatar

    ED

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    Has anyone spoke to the Librarians about what they are seeing? How their hands may be tied? What the actual computer usage is for a public setting?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
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    ED

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    I just called the Library and let a staff member know about this thread. She seemed very interested and said they will look at in and someone there will try to comment. I said people from here might show up to a meeting. Maybe, who knows. But I'm very interested in hearing what they have to say.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  30. SPG

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    BallardENTP, We are that somewhere else. Honestly I couldn't care less if some homeless people were hanging around in Ballard, except that the ones we do get seem to be the most unruly bunch of degenerate drunks I've seen, and I've seen a lot of unruly degenerate drunks. If the bums* followed the rules there wouldn't be a problem, but instead there is no policing of their behavior and if they can get away with it they will. over. and. over.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
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    clamster

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    We need to make it very clear to the new mayor (whomever that is) and city council members that the wave of crime and vagrancy in Ballard needs to be stopped, the existing laws need to be enforced and possibly some new laws enacted as several of the comments here have suggested. These problems need to be made a top priority, not new sidewalks or free wi-fi. The new mayor and council members need to be taken on a tour of Ballard to see what's happened to our parks and public gathering areas, the library, the grafitti on businesses, etc.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  32. Jules

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    The City of Federal Way actually closed it's shelter and gave them all bus tickets to Seattle. I'm trying to find the article about the Portland homeless- Oregon Dept. of Corrections gave the recently paroled bus tickets to Seattle because, if I remember correctly "Seattle has more services and is better equipped to handle them."

    Amazingly enough, this summer the Dept. of Parks & Rec. had a meeting in August at the library to discuss the problems in the parks, and the homeless woman with the shopping carts of garbage showed up!

    Well, with the closing of the SHARE shelter at Calvery Lutheran, that ought to take at least some of the bums out of local circulation.

    The problem with the bums is largely that they do not adhere to the "social contract" with society that the rest of us do. This leads to behaviors observed in Ballard like:

    Defecating in the bushes outside the library and in the parks
    Urinating in public
    Stealing from local stores. Bartells now keeps most of the more expensive small items locked up for this reason. (and the cost of shoplifting is passed along to all of us...and is a factor, albeit not the only one, of some of the stores closing. They can't afford "shoplifting insurance" . No joke, I worked for a women's clothing store that suffered such heavy losses that she finally decided to close. It isn't the biggest reason, but for some stores it may be a "tipping point.")Ask any retail shop owner about this and they will give you an earful. The Fat Chick with pitbull has ripped off pretty much every store in Ballard, for just one instance.
    Drug deals. (and the assorted other crimes that leads to.)
    Prostitution....and having sex in the parks and the library.
    Fights. I've personally witnesses a few spectacular ones.

    And the cost to our community? For starters, the vagrants are heavy users of the ER, and the cost is passed along to the rest of us. A friend is an ER nurse down at Swedish, Ballard, and she says that probably 75% of the usage currently is the homeless. We all pay for that.

    Losses to our business community. People do not want to come here from other places to shop if you have to run the gauntlet of panhandlers, drug addicts and drunks to do so. Pioneer Square is suffering deeply from this problem.

    I hope that the closing of the SHARE shelter at Calvary Lutheran will take some of the vagrants out of circulation.

    Downtown Seattle has a "no sitting on the sidewalk during business hours" policy in force; we need to get that extended to here.
    How about getting up a petition to the City Council that bans panhandling in Ballard? Tacoma did it, why shouldn't we?

    The vagrants are not just an annoying eyesore (and assault to the other senses, like smell), they are a dangerous bunch of drug addicts and drunks roaming our streets, taking over our parks and our library, perpetrating crime. Why should we, as a residential community, have to put up with this?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  33. User has not uploaded an avatar

    ED

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    I want to work on this issue. But bums as a top proirity!! Your watching to much cable news. Breath buddy breath. Bums don't really do graffiti. Middle class kids from the neighbor are the ones to blame.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  34. Fauxnothing

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    Personally, I would pay for bus tickets to get rid of at least a couple of these unruly vagrants. I'm sure other people feel the same way. Wasn't there something in the news not too long ago about a town that did that?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
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    clamster

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    Good post Jules. Maybe one solution is to simply reverse the process by which these vagrants were offloaded into our neighborhood. We set up a fund that purchases one-way bus tickets to Portland and Federal Way and send them back. Or to various other towns all over so that no single town is overly burdened. Until these people are willing to help themselves by getting off drugs and alcohol they will continue to be problematic and no amount of food or shelter will help as we've already witnessed. The people with severe mental problems need to be cared for and not left on the streets but unless a crime was committed a person cannot be forced to get mental help or institutionalized.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  36. shallow.end

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    Defecating in the bushes outside the library and in the parks
    Urinating in public
    Stealing from local stores.
    Drug deals. (and the assorted other crimes that leads to.)
    Prostitution....and having sex in the parks and the library.
    Fights. I've personally witnesses a few spectacular ones.

    Most of those fit the belltown bros who come up on the weekends.
    I'm just sayin'.

    Clamster:
    I'm sorry, but it's just silly (but more sad) that you're discussing throwing money at transit to cart people away just to get them out of your sight line. Pushing people around and offloading them onto others isn't a solution. Yes, I understand that not everyone can or wants to be helped, but if you're going to start a fund, perhaps put it to a more positive use. There are good people in serious need and you'd rather throw money at "decluttering." It's a shame.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  37. User has not uploaded an avatar

    ED

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    shallow.end, don't forget about the toxic hair gel and creepy jeans with the funny designs on their butts.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  38. BriarRose

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    <YAWN> Same old same old over nothing. If Ballard was really as bad as all that, houses would cost what they cost in Tacoma and we would be swarming with cops all day and night.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  39. jubbjubb

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    Good point BriarRose.

    I notice a lot of places have plans to put homeless on buses, but a) the programs have private funding from local businesses or similar sources & b) they are not just sending people to the next metropolitan down the expressway, but rather they are making contact with family who will help and getting people back to their original homes.

    Also, the folks in Portland make the same claims we do... they're all flocking here because our social services are so much better than city-xyz. Perspective, perspective.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  40. shallow.end

    shallow.end

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    Same old same old over nothing. If Ballard was really as bad as all that, houses would cost what they cost in Tacoma and we would be swarming with cops all day and night.

    Standing ovation for you.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #

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