shallow.end - Of course it's silly and not a solution but if it's true about Portland and Federal Way then those cities need to take some responsibility and help out. And no, it's not some simple "sight line" problem, read Jules post. And yes, this subject is the same old but I wouldn't say it was over nothing, there are some serious issues here and people that need help.
My Ballard Forum » Open Forum
Take back our parks , library and our streets
(75 posts)-
clamster
offlineMemberPosted 2 weeks ago # -
BriarRose
offlineMemberNice sentiments clamster but wake up and admit that the US offers little to its less fortunate and just wants them out of sight. Seattle is the poster child for pseudo liberals who are really just as conservative as those they profess to loathe. Liberal = progressive and conservative = regressive. I love this city and would like to see it get better but it will not get better with regressive thinking. The whole country has had 30 years of that crap and look where we are now. Guess what folks the 50s were NOT paradise. Sure I would LOVE to go back to redlining and separate drinking fountains right? Cops knocking folks in the head with batons! Yeah that’s what we need right? Remember when Americans ‘discovered’ poverty in the US? Lol Well they sure worked hard to hide that discovery again.
I live in Ballard and stop at Safeway at least three times a week and have never been pan handled there. When I am greeted by a panhandler I sometimes say no and sometimes offer a dollar. We use the Library regularly and have never seen sex solicited or had any trouble whatsoever with any other patron. I have never seen anyone defecate or pee or have sex outdoors. It likely happens but very seldom is my guess. Twice in the last week I was downtown quite late and rode a bus home. Once from Pioneer Square and once from the King Country court house…..at midnight! Both times we got off the bus on Market to get a bite to eat. I usually give a dollar or two to the gent at Bartells selling papers. He is hardly frightening. Just a mentally challenged citizen who is doing the best he can. I see him shopping at Safeway occasionally.
People are angry in this country right now and Ballad is no different. The retail owners I have spoken with are barely hanging on. It is easy to look for someone or something to blame. They sit in their empty stores and see the homeless and blame them. We are in a time of flux economically and that breeds fear and fear breeds hate and blame. Many are feeling desperate in their own lives and it is always easy to look for blame under that sort of stress.
Funny really, I would think these terrified folk would be rushing to move to Federal Way if it is such a great city and Ballard is so terrible.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
motorrad
onlineMemberBriar rose spouts the typical ballard line of provincial crap. "Because it doesn't happen to me your complaint isn't valid". Yeah we know you are the expert on everything. Tell you what BR, I am so regressive I would like to buy you a metaphorical bus ticket off the forums. Go spend more time out in the real world instead of having to put up with the liberal regressives on the forums.
Posted 1 week ago # -
Nora Bell
offlineMemberFederal Way is a pit. And guess what? They have plenty of drunken bums. No to mention the crime. My brother and his wife had a lovely house there that they both loved. They moved back to Seattle because they were tired of being robbed. Federal Way is not exactly something to aspire to.
Posted 1 week ago # -
BriarRose
offlineMemberI agree Nora it is a pit but they 'closed their shelters and gave all the bums a bus ticket to Seattle' right?
Posted 1 week ago # -
DavidB
offlineMemberAs long as Seattle residents (specifically Ballard) are tolerant of letting bums reside in front of their homes and take over their libraries and parks this problem will continue to increase. You don't see the bums on Mercer Island or in Bellevue because it wouldn't be tolerated.
I refuse to ever give money to any panhandler because this problem has grown to epic proportions throughout the city. I'm sure some people are only temporarily down on their luck and could use a few bucks but I can't differentiate them from the lifestyle hobos. It amazes me to see people roll down their windows and give money to these bums at intersections. If these people can work the same intersection everyday then why can't they get a job? I know it's harder to find a job now but this has been going on for a long time.
If anyone asks me for money I say "no" and keep walking. I don't make up excuses like, "sorry, I don't have any change". I've never been harassed but if I am I will not hesitate to call the police.
Posted 1 week ago # -
Nora Bell
offlineMemberGuess they came back, Briar Rose. :-)
And, DavidB, being unemployed for 8 months IS a 'long time'. Unemployment rate is back up to 10%.Posted 1 week ago # -
GTS206
offlineMemberYesterday I walked from Union to Columbia (Pioneer Square)7 blocks along 1st Ave number of times panhandled 0.
1st to 6th along Pike 5 blocks number of times panhandled 0.
Union to Lenora along 1st and through Pike Place Market 6 blocks number of times panhandled 0.
NW 57th by Bartell's/Skate Park to Secret Garden Books 2 1/2 blocks number of times panhandled 5. I'm not countng the Real Change guy.
Main difference lots of cops on bikes downtown and fewer social sevices in the retail corridor.
Posted 1 week ago # -
DavidB
offlineMemberNora Bell we're living in economic hard times and I know it's difficult for people to find work but most people do not resort to panhandling who are unemployed. Maybe some do and really need the money but it's too difficult to identify who needs help and who doesn't need help.
I would hope that most people have family and friends that they can turn to in cases of hard times. There are also social services that are available. Unemployment benefits were also just expanded for people who are seeking work.
I'd prefer to offer food to someone who asked for spare change then to give them any money.
Posted 1 week ago # -
stopthebuzz
offlineMemberYou can't really dumb it down like that GTS. Everyone's mileage varies.
I get panhandled all over Seattle. I can make up a list of blocks where there are no panhandlers and then walk right into panhandle central in Ballard and make up "evidence" like you just did. There are pockets of behavior all over town and your selective sampling is just that. Your selective sample.
Do you really consider 1st avenue downtown to be the retail corridor? There are cops and private watch groups all over Westlake and in the 5th-7th & pine/pike area. There are also tons of panhandlers (and don't get me started on the LaRouchies who are 1000000x worse in my book). I work in the area and am panhandled daily to and from the bus stop (1st & pine) and whenever I leave my office for lunch or breaks. The alley that runs between pike/pine and 5th/6th smells like an outhouse. I hold my breath whenever I walk past. This is directly across the street from Nordstrom and smack in the middle of prime retail space downtown. Do we even need to discuss Westlake Park? You can't find a bench to sit on to eat your lunch and it's such a great space with cops on their bikes right there.
Yes, the problem of panhandling and public drunkenness from a small group is growing. But you can't tell me that Ballard is worse than anywhere else. I'd say it's better. At least here I can find a bench in a park and have a snack.
Posted 1 week ago # -
GTS206
offlineMemberStopthebuzz,
I'm not trying to "dumb it down" just an observation that on the same day I walked 18 blocks through downtown Seattle and was not panhandled vs 2 1/2 blocks in Ballard where I was hit up multiple times.
But you're right, I could have included the loon platoon of Larouche supporters but I consider them to be street theater.
Posted 1 week ago # -
Jules
offlineMemberSolipsism:the view confining reality to oneself and one's experiences. Briar Rose (who I know very well) is great at this: "I have not been panhandled, ergo, it is not a problem." (previous threads: my kid does not like sports, ergo no kids like sports.)I also happen to know (now, BR, you know this is true) doesn't go out late, or frequent any of the bars on Ballard Ave. (not that that's a bad thing, I'm just saying.)
I know for a fact that Briar Rose goes to work quite early, thus missing the "early shift" of bums at Safeway, who roll out of their trucks parked across the street around noon. The people at Safeway who I have talked to (the manager, regional mgr, security) are trying quite hard to keep the vagrants and panhandlers our of the parking lots. I've had people come up to me as I was getting into my car at night, and I had the charming experience of a blood-covered bum ask me for money- the young kids in front of me in line (at @ 1 AM) gave him money- I called the cops. By midafternoon a lot of them are back across the street at the Sunset Bowl, or in Baallard Commons.
One of the reasons that there is actually less panhandling in certain parts of downtown is the "no sitting on the sidewalks" and "no aggressive panhandling" ordinances that, as far as I know, are limited to downtown during business hours. The Downtown Association has a program called "Have a Heart, Give Smart" to discourage people from giving money to panhandlers, to quote: Giving money to panhandlers oftensupports alcohol and drug addiction. There are more than 30 places downtown to get a free meal. http://www.givesmartseattle.org/
I say we do the same thing in Ballard.
I too have never actually seen anyone defecate in public, but I've seen plenty of them urinating in the parks and on Ballard Avnue. Not a pretty picture. And the Friends of Bergen Place Park clean up the park every few weeks, and they've had to clean up human waste,vomit, needles, drup paraphenalia, and beer cans. Just because you don't personally see it happen, does not mean it is not happening.
As David said, above: "As long as Seattle residents (specifically Ballard) are tolerant of letting bums reside in front of their homes and take over their libraries and parks this problem will continue to increase. You don't see the bums on Mercer Island or in Bellevue because it wouldn't be tolerated." Absolutely true. How long do you think a non-working van would be allowed to be parked in a residential neighborhood in Mercer Island? For that matter, Laurelhurst?
You get what you settle for. EVERY time I see someone panhandling in the parking lot of Safeway, I walk right back in and talk to the manager/security, and they hustle them away.
The Library is really becoming a disgrace and my heart goes out to the poor librarians who have to put up with it. One of my dearest friends, who grew up here, (and BR also knows quite well, as they were both in my wedding) used to work for Seattle Public Library, and switched to King County. Her stories would curl your hair...but nothing much more than I've already read on this forum. Interestingly enough, when they were landscaping the Ballard Commons Park, she strolled over and asked the workers why they weren't putting in more (and bigger) trees. They explained that it would just give the homelsss and the drug addicts more "cover" to do illicit activities.
The homeless, the poor, the drunks and drug addicts have always been with us, and as far as I can tell, always will. What has changed significantly in the last 20 years is that they were mostly confined to downtown/Pioneer Square/Occidental Square. Why? Because that is where the shelters/missions/free food programs were. There may have been plenty of drunks in Ballard; but they weren't homeless. Since the "gentrification" of Ballard Avenue, which started about 15 years or so ago, all of the Single Room Occupacy apartments that were rented by the week, etc. were refurbished, gentrified, and now are out of the price range of most, not to mention the low income.
Basically, we "brought" them here with the shelters, the free lunch program at Calvery Lutheran, and the prime panhandling real estate with the boom of new bars and restaurants in downtown Ballard. Now, how do we get rid of them?
Posted 1 week ago # -
Jules
offlineMemberOh, and if anyone thinks I am a completely heartless bitch, let me assure you that I have, over the years, donated plenty of money and food to the food bank. When I worked at the UW I organized a raffle, all proceeds wentto the University Food Bank...and a food drive for NW Harvest, and I did it for 12 years.
Posted 1 week ago # -
motorrad
onlineMemberNice post with thoughtful comments. Kudos for calling BS on certain individual's behavior.
Posted 1 week ago # -
shallow.end
offlineMemberI thought the personal attack was despicable and needless grandstanding by a demonstrated drama queen.
This isn't the first time she has divilged personal information about BR as a means to discredit her opinion. Debate is good and healthy. So is diversity of opinion. What she did is just plain dirty and unnecessary and I believe against the rules of this board.
Posted 1 week ago # -
motorrad
onlineMemberJules didn't put anything out there that solipsistic BR hasn't hammered us with in her own disdainful condescending myopic posts.
Posted 1 week ago # -
DavidB
offlineMemberI went shopping this afternoon with my son at Ballard Market. I was repulsed to see a scummy looking man and woman treat the sample of tortilla chips and dip like a free buffet line. They stood there for 10 minutes gorging themselves on the free samples. It was disgusting and if I was the manger I would have kicked them out of the store.
I haven't noticed this before but I'm guessing this is pretty common.
Posted 1 week ago # -
stopthebuzz
offlineMemberHas this become another hyperbolic "here's what i saw a homeless person do" thread or are any of you actually interested in taking the park back?
Posted 1 week ago # -
BriarRose
offlineMemberWe each make choices as to how we live. My choices right now mean I am content and happy and safe. If you are not, I recommend making better choices. Do not expect the world to change to accommodate you.
Stopthebuzz its just the discontented as usual.
Posted 1 week ago # -
Jules
offlineMemberFor starters, I think that everytime we see some of this stuff happening, we should call the cops, call the store manager, call over the librarina. It's just too easy to walk on by and say "that was disgraceful!" and do nothing. If EVERY time something unaccptable is going on we make a fuss, the squeaky wheel gets the grease people.
Posted 1 week ago # -
Fauxnothing
offlineMemberBut, Jules, how many Seattleites are comfortable being "squeaky wheels"? That's a big part of our problem.
Posted 1 week ago # -
Jules
offlineMemberFaaxnothing; that IS a big part of the problem. I've read dozens of reports over the last year on this board of people witnessing outrageous behavior, and very rarely does anyone speak up.I certainly understand people's hesitation to confront these miscreants directly....but we all have cell phones, don't we? Seattleites on the whole are pretty non-confontational, but I think it's time to step up to the plate and make some noise.
Posted 1 week ago # -
SPG
onlineMemberBut speaking up would be too "New Ballard" and we can't have that, can we?
In all seriousness, I can't believe people's shock when someone actually calls BS on these hobos. Like they're more surprised and offended that someone would speak up than they are that someone would take a midday crap on the sidewalk.Posted 1 week ago # -
Jules
offlineMemberWell, I may be "Old Ballard" but I have no problem speaking up. It goes against my Seattlite/Scandinavian reticence to do it, but it's just gone on too long. I'm amazed when people report these kind of things and do....nothing. You get what you put up with.
Posted 1 week ago # -
ballardo
offlineMemberI just returned from the Ballard library, where they now have one of Seattle's finest standing by the information desk. It was much more pleasant in there. Thank you for speaking up!
Posted 1 week ago # -
motorrad
onlineMemberHe/she was there to chat up a librarian I am sure. I doubt it will be a regular thing. Hopeful but doubtful.
Posted 1 week ago # -
ballardo
offlineMemberActually, he was standing there looking quite official. I mentioned how glad I was to see him there and the librarian replied "we are too." So yeah, probably not a regular thing, but much nicer today.
Posted 1 week ago # -
motorrad
onlineMemberCool. Maybe because the weather forecast was so bad, they thought the library would be inundated.
Posted 1 week ago # -
SPG
onlineMemberI think they do traffic court hearings in the same building, so that might explain him hanging around there.
Posted 1 week ago # -
ballardbard
offlineMemberOne thing we no longer have is the "community policing" presence we used to have when the Neighborhood Service Center was on Market St. A police car was kept parked there most of the time. Granted, there was not really a cop on duty but "community policing" where you create the appearance or illusion of a police presence has demonstrated success here and elsewhere. Besides the homeless, we aslo have some pretty tough looking teenagers hanging out at the library. Yesterday I witnessed a middle aged woman walking a pit bull past the library. A group of kids outside began taunting and harrassing this dog and woman. Fortunately, the dog was a well behaved one and both woman and dog ignored these kids.
Perhaps we need to bring community policing back to the area and keep unused cars parked as well as increase foot, car and bike patrols. More bike patrols would be best as they would be able to observe more of the concerning activity. Not all of the concerning behavior discussed in the forum is related to those who are homeless due to unemployment but due to drug and alcohol use. Until we arrest these people and get them help or incarcerate them, nothing will change.
Moving them to some other neighborhood has got to be the most ignorant and inane idea on here. I don't care if you WANT to solve this issue, the fact is we are stuck with it and have to do something if we want it to change. I guess people haven't been to MI or Bellevue lately as I have seen homeless people panhandling off exits in both these places. Moving them is like a big chess game and sooner or later, they or some other population will be back.
Besides other suggestions I have offered perhaps we need to convince all local retailers to discontinue sales of alcohol to these people and to stop selling 40 ounce malt liquors and stop making alcohol cheaply and readily available around Ballard.
Posted 1 week ago # -
SPG
onlineMemberbb, From teh wiki: "Community policing or neighborhood policing is a policing strategy and philosophy based on the notion that community interaction and support can help control crime and reduce fear, with community members helping to identify suspects, detain vandals and bring problems to the attention of police."
Parking an empty patrol car is not community policing, nor is it especially effective in the long run. What I think everyone would like to see is a "beat cop" where the same officer is regularly walking around and gets to know the neighborhood and all it's character (as well as characters). What we have now is the dependence on the community to spot when something is amiss and report crime to the police who will then drive up and deal with it (usually by filing a report before responding to the next call). A lot of cities dropped the beat cop in favor of what was believed to be the more efficient use of resources with the radio car and an occasional vehicle patrol. The idea being that fewer cops could cover more ground with cars and radios than they could by walking around. Seattle went one better and dropped the patrols in favor of just having police as responders with the citizens being the observers.
Posted 1 week ago # -
nannnerrr
offlineMemberSeems like the homeless problem is not just a Ballard problem - its everywhere and has reached Ballard and I think it is here to stay.
The older woman of whom I spoke earlier last week - she continued to sleep in her box outside the Senior Center until last night. I noticed a younger woman and 2 teenagers over there late yesterday afternoon...just seeming to be standing and waiting. Next thing I knew the two grocery carts chuck full of garbage (belonging to the older homeless woman) were tipped over and everything was strewn around on the street. I'm wondering if that woman and her two teen age companions were related to the older woman and if they are responsible for the mess made of her grocery carts. One mess has been cleaned up - the other mess remains...and it looks horrible. I have not laid eyes on the older woman since yesterday morning. Now her stuff is all over the street by the bus stop on 32nd. A big fat mess.
No, I don't keep a constant watch outside my window but I do find it fascinating that someone will continue to live the way this woman lives...on the street...confused...a true vagabond...so when I'm home I do check out there to see what's going on. I have thought about trying to talk with that woman myself but I think she is probably pretty loopy. I don't really know what I would say to her ... I just feel bad that this condition exists. It is a whole other culture, to be sure.
Posted 1 week ago # -
nwcitizen
offlineMembernannnerrr did you call the DESC and tell them about the woman?
Were they going to contact her?
Posted 1 week ago # -
nannnerrr
offlineMemberI am sorry to say by the time I read the post about calling DESC the woman had already moved on. I have NO IDEA where she is these days...haven't laid eyes on her since Saturday. The grocery cart is still tipped over with stuff strewn about by the bus stop on 32nd. I can't imagine why it hasn't been picked up yet. I would do it myself but for some reason I just can't bring myself to do it but might if it remains too much longer. It is an unsightly mess. Ick. If I see the woman again I will call DESC!
Posted 1 week ago # -
seattledude
offlineMemberAlso leftover grocery carts on the south parking strip of the old library also.if anyone knows how to get them picked up please let the forum know,they have garbage in them.amazing how one person can collect so much garbage.and walks around like she owns the neighborhood.#$#@
Posted 1 week ago #
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