Here is a map depicting all bus routes through downtown Ballard. I'm guessing it will be posted at the major stops in the area someday.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/viriyincy/4084501483
I like being able to see all the routes on one clearly marked map.
My Ballard Forum » Open Forum
Ballard bus connections map
(68 posts)-
datajunkie
offlineMemberPosted 3 years ago # -
Nora Bell
offlineMemberSo, they're really going to have these at bus stops like a proper transit system? Whhoot!!! :-)
Posted 3 years ago # -
wanna-be dane
offlineMemberAwesome map, but from the comments below it, it looks like one guy designed it on his own. Any clue whether metro will actually use this? If not, time to print your own copy and carry it with you...
Posted 3 years ago # -
ballardmike
offlineMemberThat's great!!
I sent Metro some "user comments" about their lack of maps on the bus web site... they appear to favor the "Design by Committee" approach - i.e. crappy.
Posted 3 years ago # -
MidWest
offlineMemberIf I had the time, I'd lacquer copies of this map to the bus stops myself.
This map is great; why can't Seattle do this like any other city? I can read the bus maps in Geneva, Switzerland for cryin' out loud...
Posted 3 years ago # -
SPG
offlineMemberWe'll start a committee to search for and evaluate potential candidates to oversee a study on the feasability of further study on a selection committee to consider candidates for evaluation of consideration of study and consult with an outside party to drive efficiencies toward considering this suggestion. Estimated cost: $12.6 million Completion 2018.
Posted 3 years ago # -
ballardmike
offlineMemberCat's outta the bag!! SPG works for the city! ;)
Posted 3 years ago # -
SPG
offlineMemberOk, here's a real solution to this if our fair city won't bother to make Metro usable for anyone who hasn't already mastered their single route...
Design your own map and sell advertising on it. Print 'em up and hand 'em out at businesses, the airport, coffee shops, etc.
There's a few underemployed people on this list, so why not do it? It's not like the city is going to beat you to it.Posted 3 years ago # -
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMemberSorry, Nora. A "proper" transit system doesn't need maps of its labyrinthine system, because a proper transit system is not labyrinthine. A proper transit system would invest in a core network of very frequent routes (note: the RapidRide proposal, at 15-minute intervals, is not frequent enough to supplant lesser routes). And a proper transit system might express some minimal interest in providing an efficient and pleasant trip by, say, allowing rear-door exit at all times and maintaining a vehicle-cleaning department.
Posted 3 years ago # -
ballardmike
offlineMemberThat and AWESOME signage will get you where you need to go.
Posted 3 years ago # -
SPG
offlineMemberBallardisssmmsmsmsmfalkfdjasdjghsad;lkfja;sdklfjas'fjdasjghsgasj;flkj, The other issue with making a non labyrinthinesque transit system that works without a map is if the city is laid out in a flat grid. This works great in Manhattan and SLC, but like Rome we've got some topography that gets in the way a little.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMemberSPG, that's the most common and least productive excuse I hear when I foist legitimate complaints at Metro. For the moment, let's forget about redrawing the map; just imagine re-weighting the frequencies (more service on efficient routes, less on others):
Imagine if the 18, 15, 44, 48, and 5 and ran EVERY 5 MINUTES, all the time, no exceptions. Imagine if the stops were moved from every 2 blocks to every 3 blocks, both doors were always opened for better on-off flow, and drivers on the 44 started driving like they actually wanted to get somewhere (why are 44 drivers always stuck for 3 light cycles in the right-turn lane?)
Under that scenario, how often would you use the 17, 28, 46, or 75, with their cumbersome routes and infrequent schedules? Never! There's a huge difference between asking people to walk 10 minutes to a 30-minute-intervals route and asking them to walk 10 minutes to something that's guaranteed to come soon and move quickly. Ballard to Fremont (currently a cumbersome procedure)? Guaranteed 20 minutes using the ultra-frequent 44 & 5. Downtown? You wouldn't even need a schedule anymore!
Posted 3 years ago # -
motorrad
offlineMemberNo maps needed for 'proper' transit. Wow. surprised you didn't run for mayor.
Posted 3 years ago # -
wanna-be dane
offlineMember@ I like anonymity - (me too, and yes, Ballard is small) - you make very good points about better design and more efficiency in routes/timing. I sometimes wonder about whether traffic engineers (or whatever-type engineer might be best) even work for metro - what we have now is such a totally ridiculously inefficient system.
Oh how I miss the subway systems back east.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMemberMotorrad, note my list if the somewhat preferable routes in the area. With the exception of the 48 (which could use some major streamlining), these descriptions tell you all you need to know in seconds, with no need to parse a convoluted map:
18: 24th, central Ballard, Interbay, Lower Queen Anne, Downtown.
15: 15th, straight through Interbay, Lower Queen Anne, Downtown.
44: Market-to-45th, straight line, all the way the U District.
5: Greenwood, Phinney, Fremont, Aurora, Downtown.Posted 3 years ago # -
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMemberWanna-be Dane... I still like anonymity, but now I seem to be stuck with a username that overlaps anything I write!
As we all know, King County's general disdain for the city of Seattle is a big part of the problem (please fix this, Dow!). But SDOT compounds the problem.
A few months ago, during their supposed streamlining of 15th/Elliott, they recently rejiggered the light at Elliott & Mercer to provide an uninterrupted flow for those who use the corridor as a freeway. The upshot, INBOUND 15/18 buses, which used to wait no more than 45 seconds for their left turn to Lower Queen Anne, now wait 5 MINUTES between 2pm & 8pm, and at least 90 seconds the rest of the time. After the 5-minute wait, a zillion cars make the left with the bus, so when the bus comes to its first stop at Mercer and 5th, it takes another 2 minutes fighting to pull back out, and winds up in the back of the line all the way to Queen Anne Ave.
One stupid SDOT decision, and every counter-commute bus from Ballard now gets downtown about 10 minutes late.
Re: missing the subways back east... no kidding!!
Posted 3 years ago # -
SPG
offlineMemberballardismmsdjagasgdkjkfgasdfgjasghasdlkjfkalsdjfasdalksdfhdsaljhkfjusttoodamnlongtofit, I completely agree that more effort can and should be put in to timing the buses and increasing their capacity. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a decent map posted at the bus stop. There's no reason not to have both.
There are times that I'm coming back from downtown and have options on which bus I could take. 5 to Phinney and take a nice walk down the hill, 28 up 8th ave, 15, or one of the buses to downtown Ballard and meet up with friends before I go home. I don't mind having options, I'd like to have faster more frequent buses too, but all that is pointless if nobody can figure out how to get from point A to point B by looking at a timetable. A posted map would help in that scenario as it would for anyone taking a different route than they already know.Posted 3 years ago # -
Nora Bell
offlineMemberBallardissmallumyeah - I'll be the first one to admit we could have better routes and schedules (Basically, I want what Oakland and SF have). I mean, my daily commute between Ballard and Northgate took 45 minutes by bus. But no matter how much the routes suck comparatively there should at least be maps at the bus stops. You know, like every other city seems to have. People do have to take bus routes they're unfamiliar with and most other cities seem to notice that and provide route maps in as many places as possible.
If Metro proves unwilling I kind of like SPG's idea of making our own and having them available everywhere (I'm sure 3 Girls would donate some counter space and even some advertising revenue).Posted 3 years ago # -
59thandBlake
offlineMemberI wasn't impressed with SF transit... While the District of Columbia has a beautiful metro transit system!
Posted 3 years ago # -
pioggia
offlineMemberCool map, but since when is 8th Ave (and therefore bus #28) not part of Ballard?
I do love the idea of having these at all the busstops!
Posted 3 years ago # -
shallow.end
offlineMemberthat map's focus is downtown ballard and where you can go from there. There is mention of it in the comments on flickr.
Posted 3 years ago # -
ballardmike
offlineMemberFrequency, ease of use, clear directions... what a simple solution!! =]
My gut tells me the METRO engineers have spent years overthinking connections, schedules, etc.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMemberSPG and Nora... I'm not ACTUALLY arguing against the existence of maps, per se. In fact, the map that started this thread does a downright admirable (and aesthetically pleasing) job of making sense of our convoluted system (even including through-routes)!! But I'd rather see a directed focus toward fixing what is actually wrong with the system, rather than a million small ideas that don't add up to much.
You know that ad on the buses listing Metro's Twitter account and 7 other service-advisory options. I always think, "That's just super, but Ballard to Capitol Hill still takes 6 times longer on buses than in a car on a good day, so maybe you should work on THAT!"
And SPG... because we both know the system well, we can be standing downtown, watching for 15s or 28s or 5s or 18s and know our options. But we only NEED to do this because NONE of those routes is coming often enough (and good luck with that if you're not coming from downtown). Wouldn't it be so much better for 2-3 of those routes to be coming so frequently that everyone, including the new riders transit advocates always claim to want, can begin to treat it as a common-knowledge "core" route? And all of your destination options would still be in walking distance from those lines!
A brief illustration: last year, when metro tried to cut the 17's service in half, they tried to argue that 17 riders could just walk to the 18. It was a terrible argument at the time and was resoundingly rejected.
Here's why... They were asking customers to:
1. Check the schedule
2. Sit around and twiddle their thumbs until precisely 10 minutes before the time on the schedule.
3. Lock up the house/apt (don't remember anything last-minute or you'll miss the bus!)
4. Walk 10 minutes in the rain/wind, hopefully at a sufficient clip
5. Stand at the bus stop in the rain/wind for your unpredictable bus
6. Or worse, barely miss that bus, and stand in the rain/wind another 20-35 minutesWho wants to do that every time they leave their home? Compare to the follow, much lower, psychologically obstacle:
1. Leave the house whenever you are ready
2. Walk 10 minutes in the rain/wind, knowing the bus will come immediately
3. The bus comes immediately, every timePosted 3 years ago # -
SPG
offlineMemberI'm not arguing against more frequent buses, I've depended on the frequency of the good old F train to get me from Carol Gardens to 23rd and loved that there was no schedule, it just came every 10 to 15 minutes. The NYC subway was far from perfect, but it's a good argument for frequency over schedule. There's a lot that can be done to improve Metro, but unfortunately there is a limited budget to do it.
On a lot of the Tokyo subway and rail lines there is a sign with a countdown to how long you have to wait for your train. Simple system that they've had forever and I was told it's nothing complicated like GPS, just a switch at each station that sends a signal down the line that the train has left that station. How cool would it be to have a little indicator of where the bus is or how long it will be? I wouldn't mind waiting five minutes if I knew it was going to be five minutes, not 25 minutes.
A clear, consistent map would do wonders for the occasional bus rider and might improve revenue enough to get those rapidride buses that you're advocating for.
Thankfully I don't have to commute anymore, so I'm part of the occasional rider crowd and I often wind up sitting at the bus stop long enough to decide that it's not worth it and get in my very nice European sedan and just drive where I need to go. That never happened to me in NYC, Europe, or Japan.Posted 3 years ago # -
enatai70
offlineMemberall of the above is why I DRIVE, jesus.
Posted 3 years ago # -
datajunkie
offlineMemberSeattle transit is not so bad. Drivers complain about traffic, bad drivers, etc. just as much.
Posted 3 years ago # -
SPG
offlineMemberall of the above is why I work FROM HOME, hey Zeus!
Driving is no joy around here either. If I had to work downtown I'd be on that bus, if I worked on the East Side I guess I'd quit. The area around my old office turned into pay parking on the street at the same time the parking spot I was renting from another business changed hands and went from $40/mo to almost $400/mo.
Posted 3 years ago # -
motorrad
offlineMemberI got a motorcycle because I could park in a ramp for $40 a month and the cars were paying $185. It paid for itself. Great gas mileage and even had fun when it rained as I had the right clothing. Before that I rode my bike or bussed mostly. Drove occasionally but parked a ways away. Last time I commuted on the bus it was winter, raining harder than usual. People were hacking up lung cookies, windows all fogged and every surface SLIMEY. People were coughing and sneezing constantly. AAARRGGhh!!! I couldn't take it anymore and stood up running for the exit and may have been screaming, not sure. Got off and that was it. Walked quite a while in the rain to get home. I don't commute anymore and use busses mainly back and forth across downtown when doing meetings but not when the petrie dish conditions are happening.
Posted 3 years ago # -
stopthebuzz
offlineMemberthis is why i bike!
Posted 3 years ago # -
MidWest
offlineMember"Seattle transit is not so bad" ...I have to respectfully disagree. Horrible is what it unfortunately is.
Portland, Vancouver BC (water taxis!), SF, Minneapolis, Chicago, DC, & NY kick our butts when it comes to moving people via mass transit. We have buses, mostly, stuck in traffic. A bus riding friend who commutes to the Eastside says it's a nightmare, and on Sunday it takes 3 (3!) buses. Aaaack.
Even PDX has the MAX to get out of traffic, and don't get me started on BART-I watched it go in as a kid, and it allows one to get places fast-the same distance in Seattle can take 3 times longer via our transit. Not even mentioning Europe here.
Wish we had the monorail... I hate parking downtown. Plus lots of water taxis going everywhere. That would be scenic as well as cool.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Barney Stinson
offlineMemberMap is awesome sans the inset of Market and Leary.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Nora Bell
offlineMemberBART really impressed me, though Seattle's transit system is all I had to compare it to. I wasn't in DC long enough to test out public transportation and never been to NY. So, maybe there are better public transit systems. But Seattle's truly sucks. And Ballard is 'lucky' with buses. I can get pretty much anywhere in the city by bus from here (only in twice the time it should take). Some neighborhoods don't have it that good.
So, when exactly is the target date for light rail extending North?Posted 3 years ago # -
wanna-be dane
offlineMemberI used to commute by bus to a job downtown. Went fine in the AM because I was often the first passenger on the bus. But northbound in the PM? Can't count the number of packed 15s and 18s that wouldn't even bother stopping once they got north of Pike. If you didn't walk south to Union or farther south, you could forget catching a bus home, and even then you'd be crammed in like a sardine. And half the rush hour buses would be the short ones. Clearly metro isn't doing its job (not that I fault the drivers - for the most part they seem just fine). Increased frequency and some actual intelligence in setting up routes would make a real difference.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Nora Bell
offlineMemberAgree they really need to get more of the longer (reticulated) buses out there, especially downtown buses but U-dist buses also. The 75 back home from Northgate was often standing room only.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Barney Stinson
offlineMemberwanna be done,
Not sure when that was, but I have never ridden a 15x or 18x that was not an articulated bus. And the only time I have ever seen the buses so full they don't let people on is when we get snowstorms like last winter.
Posted 3 years ago # -
SPG
offlineMemberMetro also has no sense of special events. The 28 is too overcrowded to stop below 80th after 10am on the day of the solstice parade EVERY YEAR. The lone holiday scheduled bus out of Fremont after the 4th of July fireworks is a joke. Really Metro, doesn't anyone know how or when to schedule a couple extra buses?
Posted 3 years ago # -
wanna-be dane
offlineMemberI don't actually want to be done, but thanks for the offer ;-)
It wasn't one instance - I took the bus every night and it was frequently too crowded for drivers to allow anyone else on. And the short buses were so frequent I finally asked a tired, frustrated driver on a crammed short bus why the express didn't have an articulated bus. He said he didn't know and that the drivers didn't have any choice in the matter.
Posted 3 years ago # -
h2o_girl
offlineMemberAfter reading all these posts I then read on the main page where Metro is reducing service to Ballard. Very depressing.
Posted 3 years ago # -
whitman
offlineMemberI have been riding the 15x for 2 yrs now, 5 days a week. I can count on one hand the number of times the 15x bus has been a short bus. They are always doubles. The 15 local on the other hand is more often a short bus, though its still pretty rare for that one as well.
Posted 3 years ago # -
wanna-be dane
offlineMemberI wonder if it's a matter of what time you leave work. When I had the good fortune to leave before 5, I also had the good fortune to find space on the 18 and the 15s looked like they had room too. After 5, not so. But then I quit my downtown job a while back, so maybe metro changed it all shortly after that (sure do doubt that!) I know I've heard this complaint from many others, so doubt I am the only one who has experienced it repeatedly.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Am
offlineMemberOh man, I don't know what 15s and 18s you're all riding... but the ones I ride are HORRIBLE. When I lived on 14th for the last year and rode the 15X at 8:30AM ish- never had sitting room. Same thing on the way home at 5-5:30pm- standing room only (and yes, I did see several times where the shorter bus showed up on a crowded rush-hour commute). Not only that, there are often times where the bus simply doesn't show up. Ever. Or is super late (I've actually missed it bc it came early before too).
Now I've lived on 24th for several months, and almost think the 18X is worse than the 15X! First of all, The stops for the express bus are really far apart- one up at 65th, and then next all the way down at Market and 22nd. It's a good 10 minute walk for me- to either stop. Then, when I get there, tired and worn out in work-day heals, lugging a laptop, purse, lunch bag, and umbrella...always standing room only in the mornings-front to back (I get on at Market). Second of all, the last AM 18x is at 8:10AM! Definitely need more 18 express busses in the morning, I've missed it a few times, and have had to drive (and then pay for parking AND risk getting my car vanalized-like last time- in Pioneer Square. The local takes about 50 minutes to over an hour get to where I'm going (pi square/edge of sodo) opposed to the 30 min the express bus takes. In the evening, I have the same problem- if I get caught up at work and miss the 5:10pm 18X, I have to wait until 5:42 for the next (and last) 18X. That just seems silly to me!!! It's an extremely popular bus, and not only is it 30 min apart, but there are only a few that run every day.
I think all the suggestions for frequency on busy routes are great (maps are a good idea too)! And I definitely think we need more express busses... since these are quick little trips, why not have them be 5-10 minutes apart from 3pm to 7pm?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Am
offlineMemberOh yeah, one more thing...
Not only do the bus stops need maps of routes (I can't tell you how many times I've been lost trying to get anywhere but work or home), but I've noticed that if you don't have an iPhone (am I the only one!?) or a twitter account (am I the only one!?) then Metro help-services aren't for you. One morning when my bus (the last 18X of the morning) didn't arrive (ever...it just failed to show up) I called the phone number at the stop, and got an automated message. That was helpful.
Posted 3 years ago # -
whitman
offlineMemberI suggest you all get up a little earlier. Judging metro based on its ability to satisfy everyone who decided to sleep in is a little unfair.
Posted 3 years ago # -
SPG
offlineMemberI suggest Metro base it's capacity on when people actually ride the bus, not on a mythical time that they "think" people would go to work. Having to live by the whims of Metro's outdated schedule is unfair.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMember@ Am ("the local takes 50+ minutes")... Now imagine if you DIDN'T work a standard 9-to-5, or if you lived somewhere else and reverse-commuted to Ballard. The local would be your life!! It's time for everyone to start treating -- and vocalizing -- Metro's operations as the unacceptable failures they are.
Unfortunately...
@ h2o_girl ("Metro is reducing service to Ballard")... Oh my god. OH MY GOD!
First reaction: "You're kidding, right?"
[Does some independent research, discovers it's true.]
Second reaction: Pure fury.So apparently, Metro thinks it "makes the most sense" and "is only fair" to balance their budget by reducing service proportionally on all routes, regardless of ridership needs. Our service will go from horrendous to useless just so some circuitous, useless, empty route somewhere can survive.
Of course, it wouldn't occur to them to:
1. Shorten excessive layover times;
2. Make any route changes for the sake of efficiency;
3. Get an emergency cash infusion from Olympia, who last year stiffed Seattle completely on its share of the Federal Transportation Stimulus money;
4. ELIMINATE PAPER TRANSFERS COMPLETELY! No more expired-crumpled-picked-up-off-the-ground-and-accompanied-by-a-mumbled-excuse fare evasion tactics. If you don't have an ORCA (they're free!), and you don't have cash at the ready, you don't get on the bus anymore, period! Metro has one of the highest fare-evasion rates in the country, and eliminating this most widespread source of stolen rides, with no additional enforcement costs, could do wonders for balancing their budget.Posted 3 years ago # -
Barney Stinson
offlineMemberAm,
Quit crying. The world does not revolve around you.
The beauty of the express is that there is not a stop every block. If you are so tired and lazy, take the local to the express stop.
Posted 3 years ago # -
wanna-be dane
offlineMemberWow Barney - aren't you a joy. Well apparently the world does revolve around you - because you've never had a problem with overcrowded buses, it's not a problem. Good for you. Can I be you in my next life? Sheesh
Posted 3 years ago # -
MidWest
offlineMemberJeez Barney, isn't that kinda mean?
Posted 3 years ago # -
ballardmike
offlineMemberEliminate fare and tax everybody in the city for the service... you'll be more inclined to use it then and operating budget would be stable.
The Map (per original thread) is still great! =]
Posted 3 years ago # -
shallow.end
offlineMemberWhat Barney said may have been harsh, but he has a point regarding the stops for an express. (You enjoy the express because it stops less frequently, and yet you'd prefer just one more stop as a convenience for you!) To bring this back to the NYC subway again, for the most part those stops are 10 blocks apart and the express trains stop much less frequently than that. Don't get me wrong, Seattle Metro has a long way to go in improving service, but residents also need to realize that (if you're not SPG) they're not going to build transit that rolls right up to your front door. And sometimes your transfers may require a walk as well. If you have a commute with a walk, wear comfortable shoes. Pack your bag efficiently. See what you can leave at work to lessen what you need to carry on the bus.
But I definitely agree that many routes need greater frequency and less of a "schedule".
I got tired of the overcrowded 15 and the lack of proper queuing at the bus stop (my biggest little problem with bus riders here) and started biking instead. (I live near 62nd and 20th) I shoot over to 8th, take the Burke-Gilman to Fremont Bridge to Dexter and into downtown in 25 minutes. I'm often riding along leap-frogging with the 28 from 8th and Leary all the way downtown. You can park your bike for free at Pacific Place and then hop on a bus in the tunnel. It's a lot less fun to do in the rain, but then again so is riding the bus. ;)
Posted 3 years ago # -
wanna-be dane
offlineMemberAhhh, shallow end - I decided to bike to work too. Alas, shortly thereafter, that's when life as I knew it ended. It was nice while it lasted though. Be sure to wear your helmet, increase your PIP/UIM, and - one lesson I've been thinking about even more lately - I don't think using clipless pedals was such a great idea for commuting (as opposed to distance rides). Best of luck to you, and watch out for red-light runners.
sorry for hijacking the thread for a subject near and dear.
Posted 3 years ago # -
shallow.end
offlineMemberI'm sorry you had a bad experience! i've been doing it for a while and agree with your advice regarding helmets and caution with clipless pedals. I swapped back to my regular pedals on my commute bike, because of the start/stop nature of a commute.
and now back to your regularly scheduled thread!
Posted 3 years ago # -
Barney Stinson
offlineMemberShallow End,
It amazes me that so many people here do not think to wear different shoes for their commute than they wear in their office. Obviously no one wants to walk around in heels or dress shoes for blocks at a time.....buy some walking sneakers to wear on your commute.
And to the others, yeah it might have been harsh, but I fully believe the "me first" attitude that is prevalent among Seattleites is one of the main problems this city has. Its like everyone was raised to believe they are the most important thing walking around. Wake up and realize you live in a society, and what is best for the whole is not always what is best for you. Deal with it.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMemberShallow.end:
1) Urban planning studies show that two factors will impact the willingness of riders to walk greater distances to reach transit: frequency/reliability/efficiency of service and, more amorphously, the psychological conditions of the pedestrian space between the starting point and the transit stop. We all know that Metro fails on the first count. Seattle, sadly, leaves much to be desired on the second count, because we lack an urban continuum with frequent landmarks (shops, distinctive buildings) and dense pedestrian usage. And after dark, most of our non-arterials are abandoned and the sidewalks lit poorly if at all. (Most of our recent "dense" development, garage-focused and with little active street frontage, hasn't actually improved this.) As a result, someone someone who might walk 1/2 mile end-to-end on Ballard Avenue without even noticing the distance will find the same 1/2 mile elsewhere prohibitive for choosing transit. This will be hard to fix, but massive improvements in frequency and efficiency (that are clearly linked to a reduction in stop frequency) would be needed to compensate for the latter obstacle.
2) Part of the problem with Metro's local/express dichotomy (aside the limited hours of express service) is its extreme nature: The locals are ultra-local, stopping every block or two, while the expresses are ultra-express, going 4 or 5 miles without stopping in some cases and proving useless to anyone in-between, even those who would be willing to walk some ways to use the express. In your NY example, the expresses sometimes went 25-40 blocks without stopping, but they didn't skip over 2/3 of Manhattan, which is how our expresses are designed!! (It's also, sadly, how our light rail is designed. Putting the stops 1.5 -- in some cases 2 -- miles apart AND in relatively low-density, pedestrian-unfriendly locations is criminally poor design.)
3) A helpful suggestion regarding your "leapfrogging" with the bus on Leary and Dexter: This is yet another unfortunate result of stops being too close to one another. Sometimes bus drivers are forced to tailgate bikers for miles (especially on 15th and on Nickerson), because if they try to pass they might have to stop for a rider a block later, watch for the bike to pass before pulling out, and then attempt to pass again. The result is a 15 mph (or slower) ride on a 40 mph road. If this happens again, please, PLEASE try pulling ONTO THE SIDEWALK to ease this stalemate until either you or the bus get reasonably ahead of one another.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMember[re-posted from the MyBallard main-page comments section, which is underused compared to this forum]:
Michael Snyder wrote:
>>The good news is that they found funding to keep things going for this year and think they have found funding to keep things going for the next 3 years via some efficiency changes and increases in fares.
>>
>>For one of the efficiency changes, they might eliminate up to 6 stops for the #44 in Ballard, allowing it to be a faster and more useful bus.
>>
>>Another efficiency change is looking at ways to increase ridership on the #46.ballardissmallilikeanonymity wrote:
I wish the #44 improvements weren't a "might." Recently, San Francisco MUNI decided to rearrange its bus stops to dramatically improve efficiency -- every route, every street. They announced it and began making the changes immediately. Metro, meanwhile, picks 1 or 2 routes to "experiment" with this already-proven idea (so far, only the #7), announces that they "might" do it, and then sends it into committee for a year or more.
As for the #46: direct Ballard-Fremont service is a great idea, but nobody's going to make a habit of riding a line that runs hourly from 9 to 3. When a route is that sparse, and therefore not a regular part of people's sense of transit options, ridership will remain low. Period.
Lastly, another across-the-board fare increase is a disastrous and unjustified by the quality of service we get. Period. $72/month (peak) or $63/month (off-peak) is outrageously high when every single ride is a nightmare. Considering our non-existent fare enforecement, raising it higher will just encourage more creative-excuse-based fare dodging at the expense of those who actually pay. I recently read that Boston's MBTA, despite 2 fare increases since I moved to Seattle, still costs only $59/month for a subway+bus pass or $40 (!) for a bus-only pass, and has resoundingly rejected a 3rd increase as a solution for its budget woes (and that's for a system with 5-10 minute frequencies across the board).
What Metro SHOULD consider is eliminating paper transfers entirely (one major source of "I'll show you my expired transfer from this morning" fare evasion) and creating a 2-tiered system that rewards ORCA users with discounts (thus massively speeding up the boarding process) and makes cash-paying customers use whole dollars (again, faster) -- $2 at all times, or perhaps even $3 at rush hour -- rather than screwing it's regular customers as they've proposed.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Am
offlineMemberDearest Barney,
Isn't everyone here looking out for their best interests when complaining about Metro service? Heck yeah I'm trying to make my commute as easy as possible, and you're right, I do wish that the world of Metro revolved around me (don't we all!?)- luckily I think my concerns are widely felt, and if my wants were met, it would benefit everyone- I'm not the only one me that is disgruntled by the Metro service.
Let me clarify my arugment: I don't expect the bus to cater to just my needs-clearly a large majority of Ballardites are sleeping in late in the mornings...the last 18X of the AM has people standing on top of eachother from front to back. I'm not trying to argue for more express stops, my argument is in response to the problem of overcrowding and lack of express bus frequency (everything else was used to support my argument).
I actually do wear different shoes to the bus. I was just trying to make a point: I am willing to make the trek to the far-away express bus even in poor conditions, etc, because it gets me to work 20 minutes sooner than the local- however... it would be nice if after I made the effort, the bus actually came on time consistently and... once in a blue moon, I would love to get to sit down and not chest bump or bear hug my neighbor every time the bus stops abruptly. I would guess that other express riders agree with me.
Why don't you join me sometime Barn, and we can share a little too-close spooning on the AM 18X. You'll see what a joy it really is.
Posted 3 years ago # -
julief
offlineMemberballardramalamadingdong: I agree that the locals stop entirely too much (in fact, when i get stuck on one I joke that I'll be home late because we're dropping everyone off at their doorstep.) I don't necessarily have a problem with an express like the 15 stopping at 65th and then Market and then not again until downtown. I don't think every bus needs to serve every (or any) stop in Interbay or LQA. I know we like using manhattan as an example, but we can't really compare Seattle to NYC or Manhattan specifically. I almost view neighborhoods outside of downtown as the boroughs (Ballard as Brooklyn, etc).
As for your leapfrogging comment with the 28. It happens to me as well. first at a stoplight on 8th, then i'm on the BG and the bus is on the road. We meet up again at the Fremont Bridge and from there it's a series of stoplights (there's a bike lane on Dexter, remember. it's easy to get to the front of the line or make a green at the next signal when you're in front.) and with only a few bus stops where the passing is occurring. It happens rarely and i'm always careful, make sure the driver sees me and also hang back rather than risk a situation where the driver will have to wait for me to pass to ultimately pass me again 15 seconds later. But if i were to pull over to ensure I gave every vehicle a big enough head start on my commute, i'd never get to work. :)
Posted 3 years ago # -
Barney Stinson
offlineMemberAm I ride the 15x every work day. I don't even remember the last time it was SRO and the bus is RARELY late. I think you might need a lesson in how the bus schedule works.
Or, I would recommend onebusaway.org They have great tools for helping you catch the next bus at your stop.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMemberJulief, the bus/bike dalliance is a particularly recurrent problem on 15th in Interbay and on Nickerson between the Ballard bridge and Dexter. That said, you seem to have figured it out and have solved it by, as you said, "hang[ing] back rather than risk a situation where the driver will have to wait for me to pass to ultimately pass me again 15 seconds later." (Since none of the combined routes on any of the streets in question run closer than 10-15 minutes apart, you're not likely to encounter another bus for quite a while once you've let the first one pass.)
The worst result is that drivers would sometimes rather inch along behind a biker than play the repeat-passing game. This is infuriating to riders, who have to go at the biker's pace ON TOP of all the normal issues that make Metro slow. Meanwhile, it can't be pleasant for the biker to be tailgated by a massive vehicle the whole ride.
Bikers (some of whom seem to ride with their heads in the clouds) should really try to do as you do, for everyone's sake.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Am
offlineMemberHey Barn, I ride the 18X (not the 15), its often late and always crowded. Come try it out sometime and then lets chat! PS: I edited my previous comment to clarify:
Isn't everyone here looking out for their best interests when complaining about Metro service? Heck yeah I'm trying to make my commute as easy as possible, and you're right, I do wish that the world of Metro revolved around me (don't we all!?)- luckily I think my concerns are widely felt, and if "my selfish wants" were met, it would benefit everyone- I'm not the only one me that is disgruntled by the Metro service.
Let me clarify my arugment: I don't expect the bus to cater to just my needs-clearly a large majority of Ballardites are sleeping in late in the mornings...the last 18X of the AM has people standing on top of eachother from front to back. I'm not trying to argue for more express stops, my argument is in response to the problem of overcrowding and lack of express bus frequency (everything else was used to support my argument).
I actually do wear different shoes to the bus. I was just trying to make a point: I am willing to make the trek to the far-away express bus even in poor conditions, etc, because it gets me to work 20 minutes sooner than the local- however... it would be nice if after I made the effort, the bus actually came on time consistently and... once in a blue moon, I would love to get to sit down and not chest bump or bear hug my neighbor every time the bus stops abruptly. I would guess that other express riders agree with me.
Why don't you join me sometime Barn, and we can share a little too-close spooning on the AM 18X. You'll see what a joy it really is.
Posted 3 years ago #
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