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Daily news for Seattle's Ballard neighborhood |
gooner
offlineMember
to those of you that just sat in your seat while my pregnant wife stood for the length of the trip from downtown to ballard... shame on you.
she isn't just sort of pregnant, she is 9 months pregnant.
you know who you are too. she made eye contact with many of you, and saw more than a few people actually look at her belly but then dig their nose back in their book or look the other way.
i am pissed as a husband but dissapointed as a fellow ballardite. what a poor showing from you lot.
KEIGAAF
offlineMember
I hear what you are saying but... I have experienced several times when offering my seat to a person who I thought would appreciate sitting down that I got the looks or even a comment that they where more than capable of standing and felt offended... I still offer my seat, but I sometimes get the impression that people think it is not appropriate to ask someone if they can have their seat.
All in all we are in this together. Sometimes you get offered a seat, sometimes you need to ask for it. That't the way it is, not just for a seat in public transport, but for everything in life.
1. Seattle is very child free and maybe people don't give a shit about pregnant women.
2. It is possible those people you were making eye contact with were disabled without looking disabled. There are many diseases where people look perfectly able bodied but are not.
3. Pregnancy isn't really considered a disability.
4. Maybe the local Ballardite was just trying to encourage labor.
5. If she needed a seat then she should have asked.
gooner
offlineMember
1. apparantely
2. yes, all 5 of them were probably disabled.
3. neither are the elderly or the single mom with 2 kids, but i would always give up my seat for them.
4. maybe a water break would get someone out of their seat eh? or at least lift their bag to get out of the way
5. the point of my rant is that she shoudln't have to.
candice.
offlineMember
Wow. Are you folks really not bothered by the selfishness of the people on the bus?! Trying to justify the rude folks on the bus is just... lame.
A freakin' 9 month along pregnant woman is something that is pretty obvious and anyone who's been pregnant or been close to a pregnant woman should know she's EXHAUSTED. Give the poor woman a seat! Dang.
biophile
offlineMember
I'm with candice and gooner. Chivalry is not just for men. It's called courtesy or decency. I've offered my seat and been rejected. It doesn't stop me from offering it again. Bottom line is it really doesn't matter who you offer that seat/helping hand to, what matters is what your conscience tells you to do. I'd much rather be rejected or given the evil eye for offering a seat than to know that I could have been a better person and I failed at it. That's what is hard (for me) to live with.
biophile
offlineMember
AmyJ
offlineMember
Gooner - Congratulations on the imminent birth of your child. Enjoy that baby!
When I was ~seven months pregnant with my first child, I was traveling on business and as soon as I was at the airport and then outside of Seattle -- my being pregnant meant something to other people. They offered to carry my bags, give up seats, lift things for me. It was AMAZING. At first I thought it was silly, I'm independent and athletic, but it was actually really nice that people 1) paid attention to people around them and 2) had some manners with action behind them.
Seattle is #2 on the child-free chart (San Fran is #1) and can be really unfriendly--downright disdainful--of children and mothers. My suggestion is that you have your wife hold a dog or a cat when she's on the bus and then someone will probably offer her a seat.
mogan.diggens
offlineMember
AmyJ, great advice!
gooner, i'm with you. shame on them...
boardbrown
offlineMember
Hey Gooner, my theory is that people are just plain stupid. I know it's a simple explanation, but it seems fitting for all our ills and shortcommings.
And I pretty much base all my assumptions on this theory.
Ballardog
offlineMember
Hmmm. Why would you let your 9 months pregnant wife ride the bus? Get your car and drive her dammit!
MadHatter
offlineMember
I sometimes ride the 17 at 4:30 - if I was there, I would have definitely offered my seat. More importantly, since the fare increase, Metro has "chosen" to not provide articulated busses on the 17 express in the afternoon anymore. Maybe we should ask Metro why people have to stand from Downtown to Ballard on the kidney-rattlying smaller busses? Obviously, the ridership is there for a longer bus.
Bethany
offlineMember
Gooner, that's horrible.
To say that this incident is because Seattle is relatively child-free is giving a pass to those who could have stood but sat instead. Is someone who chooses to have a child less deserving of respect and empathy? I don't think so. A strong community is one that values all its members.
m
offlineMember
1st - @ Nina: please tell my you were being sarcastic - please?
The best I ever saw (I was standing) was an elderly woman with a cane board the bus and look around at no seats, and no one offering her a seat. She proclaimed very loudly "apparently nobody's mother raised them right". Several individuals were shamed enough to stand up. Mrs. Gooner should not have to ask, but unfortunately she does have to ask. General perception is that if someone's not talking to me specifically then I'm not involved. I'm invisible. Ask someone do you mind if I sit down?
As a society we've become a group of islands, all wearing our personal isolators (i-pods) and shielding ourselves with books and newspapers to avoid contact. I've ridden the bus my entire life - the public aint' that bad folks! Yes, 10% are some form of crazy but don't shut out the other 90% because of it.
And lets bring back the "common" in common courtesy.
and @ Ballardog - back off, you don't know what options people have. Don't be so judgemental.
BlackSheep
offlineMember
I think you nailed it exactly, m.
And it's nothing new - my mother complained about the same thing happening when she was pregnant with me, and I'm 38...
gcm
offlineMember
maybe we should just do away with all seats on buses. if you need a seat, bring your own.
seattletree
offlineMember
sorry for the rudeness and it is rudeness. maybe i'll just try to be a little nicer to make up for those that won't can't.
silence.kit
offlineMember
I don't feel like woman that's nine months pregnant should have been on the bus in the first place.
m
offlineMember
Please people - I gotta say that those who say a pregnant woman shouldn't have been on the bus in the first place must be men who haven't lived with a wife/girlfriend. (Yeah yeah sweeping generalization). As was (somewhat rudely) pointed out earlier, pregnancy is not a disability. A pregnant woman is perfectly capable of riding the bus. I believe the point of the post is lack of consideration and courtesy for others - particularly those who are carrying a whole other person in their body. Yes, she may be healthy and able, but jeez folks; don't you think that carrying a whole other person is tiring!?
Not to mention that the opinion that she shouldn't have been on the bus is judgmental. Do you know the situation? I took the bus to work every day through 2 pregnancies because we owned one car and my husband worked in South Seattle.
Or are you the type that agree with my Grandma who believes that I shouldn't try to be too "athletic" when it's my special time of the month?
m
offlineMember
And don't bother flaming me - I do agree with Gooner. The behavior of the bus riders was selfish, inconsiderate, discourteous and uncaring. And we all deserve better from each other.
sman
offlineMember
"The behavior of the bus riders was selfish, inconsiderate, discourteous and uncaring. And we all deserve better from each other." m, it could not be stated any better. Gooner, I hope your wife is treated more courteously in the future.
mudblood
offlineMember
Not long ago, I was getting on a bus after a day at the Children's Museum with a sleeping child in my one arm, a folded up umbrella stroller in the other, and my older child at my side. NOT ONE person so much as acknowledged me. In fact, the bus driver said in an exasperated tone as I was waiting for people to clear the aisle to allow us to pass, "Lady, you can't stand there, it's not safe for you and your babies." I'd replied loudly, "I'm just waiting for people to let me by." I was apparently holding up the bus, so he offered to wait while I got off and tried the back door. Fortunately we were able to board and <i>got</i> to ride all the way home <i>standing up.</i> I didn't bother asking for courtesy because the look on people's faces screamed, "Your kids are NOT <i>my</i> problem."
mudblood
offlineMember
I guess I can't use italics :]
Anyway, I'm sorry about your wife, gooner. I often give up my seat to elderly and disabled folks. Never had a pregant woman scenario but I've been one so I would definitely offer my seat if the opportunity presented itself. Congrats, by the way.
Jasmine74
offlineMember
It sucks that your wife was treated that way. It sucks even more that you feel so strongly about this, but didn’t say anything on the bus. It worked for the elderly lady...worth a shot? If it really meant that much to you speak up. I think that’s where the problem is on buses, people are so afraid of looking bad when something should be said. Example, last month on the 28, I watched a lady’s white coat get trampled by a muddy wheeled stroller. She was pissed, but said nothing. Would a simple "Please watch out" or "May I have a seat for my wife, she really needs it" It difficult for me to sympathize because you are expecting a kind act, but turn around and shame the people who you want kindness from...
m
offlineMember
@ Jasmine74 - the way you phrase "you are expecting a kind act, but turn around and shame the people who you want kindness from" sounds like the expectation followed the shaming. Not sure if that was your intent, but it definitely isn't what happened.
and I didn't read specifically that gooner was on the bus with his wife. Assumption?
mudblood
offlineMember
Seems to me that the lady with the white coat is a little different. No words after the fact would've done anything for the stain. (That wasn't my stroller, by the way.) :]
Gooner, I'm a Chelsea supporter but I gladly side with you on this one. Lame of the bus riders.
Linus
offlineMember
I think Metro could help by changing the signs. Instead of saying "Please blah blah when asked by driver" it should just say, Hey! Skateboard guy! Move your ass". They'll get their turn later.
gooner
offlineMember
yeah i wasn't on the bus. trust me i would have. and i understand that for some other people it wouldn't have been a problem to ask for a seat. my wife isn't one to do that, but yet i guess i still contend that she shouldn't have to, hence my gripe.
anywho. thanks for the comments. i have calmed down now ;-)
rudy, good luck with guus, i hope he leads you to 5th place
allisonw
onlineMember
I've had the same thing happen to me when I've been on crutches. On the bus, struggling to open doors, you get it. I don't think people are horrible so much as they are simply oblivious to what is happening around them.
Unfortunately I notice this when I am driving too--many other motorists.....just....lost in their own little worlds.
Mike
offlineMember
That's a sad story; sorry your wife had to stand.
Maybe people are hunkering down because of the financial disaster? A sort of "every man for himself" mentality? Put bluntly: "you got yourself into this, and your problem is not my problem".
Not trying to make excuses here, just speculating on an explanation.
ksheyman
offlineMember
gooner, it's ridiculous to say that she 'shouldn't have to ask'. firstly, the people on the bus don't owe her anything. she chose to get on the bus and she is responsible for herself. if she wanted a seat she should have asked someone, or asked the driver to find her a seat. other people can't be expected to guess what she needs. secondly, as several people have pointed out, seattle is a largely child-free city and so i doubt many of the riders have been pregnant (or have had pregnant wives). I know that if i was sitting there it probably wouldn't even occur to me to offer my seat, and honestly I don't think that makes me a bad person or should disappoint anyone. it's not like the riders were kicking and spitting on her, and it's not like they refused to give up their seats. your wife didn't even ask. obviously it bothered her enough to complain to you about it but not enough for her to proactively solve the problem. people are not uncaring monsters, they are just shy. just as your wife was too shy to ask for a seat, i think it's reasonable to say that the other riders were too shy to offer it. if being shy makes them bad people then bro, it makes your wife a bad person too! I don't mean to stir up strife but hey, you did post your comment on a public message board...
gooner
offlineMember
ksheyman...bro...thanks for opening my eyes...
let me take this opportunity to apologize to all the shy people. i am sorry that being shy means you can't be cordial to the lady that is carrying 30 extra pounds. it must be quite an internal struggle that i haven't taken the time to appreciate.
can you do me a favor and give your mom a call tomorrow. ask her if she thinks you should give up your seat to a very pregnant woman without her asking. please post her response, i am very curious to know.
Nordic Woman
offlineMember
I am astonished at how callous, rude, and plain inhumane some of the people on this post are. What decent, civilized human wouldn't give up a seat to a pregnant woman? Have you no manners whatsoever? How about the elderly? Didn't your parents teach you anything?
ksheyman...yes, in fact, it does make you a bad person. Why don't you ask YOUR mother how SHE would have liked standing on the bus when she was 9 months pregnant with YOU? Since you sound very young, (and from the name male) perhaps some time your pregnant wife might have to stand on the bus.
"People are just shy..." is the most original excuse for bad behaviour I have ever read. Shy? I think not. Insensitive, callous, inhumane, and just plain rude is more like it.
How about the elderly or the disabled? Should we sit on the bus listening to our I-Pods because we are "too shy" to do the decent thing and offer them our seats?
ksheyman
offlineMember
“I am astonished at how callous, rude, and plain inhumane some of the people on this post are. What decent, civilized human wouldn't give up a seat to a pregnant woman? Have you no manners whatsoever? How about the elderly? Didn't your parents teach you anything?”
No one here has said that they wouldn’t give up their seat to a pregnant person. All I said was that I think that person should ask for something if they want it. A person sitting down can’t be expected to read that person’s mind, and should not be expected to be the one to go out on an awkward social limb and offer a seat to someone who might very well be offended at the very notion that they are incapable of standing. I am more than happy to give up my seat for someone who is not able to stand comfortably. All I said is that it’s up to them to ask. That’s why the signs on the disabled seating on the bus say to give up the seat ‘when requested’.
“ksheyman...yes, in fact, it does make you a bad person. Why don't you ask YOUR mother how SHE would have liked standing on the bus when she was 9 months pregnant with YOU? Since you sound very young, (and from the name male) perhaps some time your pregnant wife might have to stand on the bus.”
It is rude and inappropriate to make personal assumptions and accusations about me because you disagree with the opinions I’ve expressed in a public forum about a topic I did not bring up. To answer your question, my mother would not have allowed herself to be in that position. She would have been assertive enough to ask for a seat if she wanted one. She raised me to speak up when I want something instead of standing there hoping someone decides to give it to me. I think it is misogynistic to suggest that a woman is incapable of being forceful with her needs and should depend on the chivalry of men. You should take a good hard look at what you are saying here.
"People are just shy..." is the most original excuse for bad behaviour I have ever read. Shy? I think not. Insensitive, callous, inhumane, and just plain rude is more like it.”
Since you do not refute my point but instead simply mock it, I’m not sure how to respond to this. Fear of social awkwardness is a powerful motivator. Remember that famous statistic that the majority of people fear public speaking more than they fear death? I don’t understand why you don’t think that the overpowering paranoia of being embarrassed is a legitimate motivator for action. You are projecting those traits (insensitive, callous, inhumane, rude) onto the people who didn’t stand up and offer their seats to a stranger in front of a bus full of strangers. Apparently you do not suffer from social anxiety. I think it’s you who is being insensitive.
“How about the elderly or the disabled? Should we sit on the bus listening to our I-Pods because we are "too shy" to do the decent thing and offer them our seats?”
Again, I do not accept the notion that it is my charge to go out of my way seeking out an invalid to help. This isn’t a scout troop, this is real life. There are no merit badges here. I’ve never suggested that anyone should refuse to help someone who asks for it. All I said is that being perceptive and addressing unspoken needs is NOT MY JOB as a casual rider of the transit system. If someone wants to listen to music on the bus and not pay attention they should be allowed to. If you want my seat, you can ask for it like a normal human being. Don’t just stand there silently stewing about the depraved state of humanity, that no one would give up their seat when you didn’t even ask.
Oh and gooner, I really didn't mean to sound uncaring about your wife. I don't know her and I shouldn't make assumptions about her personality. however i'd like you to call your mom and ask if she thinks it's okay to be rude and sarcastic to someone just because they disagree with you. i'd be very interested to hear her opinion.
Nordic Woman
offlineMember
ksheyman, your argument is flimsy at best, and specious at worst. So, for you to do the decent thing in life, people have to ASK YOU TO DO THE DECENT THING?
It is a sad, sad commentary on our society when a man would not AUTOMATICALLY give up his seat on a bus *casual rider or not* (and why should BEING A CASUAL RIDER MAKE A DIFFERENCE? Do regular communters have better manners, or more obligation to our fellow humans than "casual riders"? )to a nine-month pregnant woman. Or an elderly person.
You are no gentleman,and yes, you are a depraved speciman of humanity.
m
offlineMember
Let me add it wasn't just men who were lacking civility in this situation - the women on the bus were equally at fault.
I said it earlier and I'll say it again: civility, courtesy, mutual respect and caring for each other; that's all we talking about here. And we shouldn't have to ask for it.
Maybe people thought she was just fat?
ksheyman
offlineMember
"You are no gentleman,and yes, you are a depraved speciman of humanity. "
Completely inappropriate and uncalled for. You owe me an apology
ksheyman
offlineMember
All other stuff aside here I'm going to end my involvement in this topic by saying that I do think the riders should have given up their seats. Ideally they would notice her need and offer. However there were likely many factors afoot and since that didn't happen the pregnant person should have just simply asked the riders or the driver to find her a seat. Maybe 'rudeness' or 'callousness' is the reason she didn't get an unsolicited offer and would have 'had to ask', but her own social anxiety is the reason she ended up standing the entire ride. I don't think it's a reflection on the moral character of the other riders, as we can't be sure why they didn't get up, but more than anything it is a reflection on the fact that so many people on this planet are too shy to survive. Apparently I cannot disagree with people without being insulted and attacked so I will remove myself from this discussion.
Well, I can tell you from personal experience, nothing more embarrassing than offering a seat to a fat lady thinking she's pregnant. The look I got scared the sh*t outta me.
Maybe the riders were being TOO polite?
gooner
offlineMember
welcome back suthii, your "maybe people thought she was fat" comment brought a smile to my face. and i totally understand what you are saying... i won't ask a lady when she is due unless it is 110% obvious she is prego.
my wife looks 110% prego, there is no doubt.
and with that, i have looked at and commented on this topic far too much. on to other things.
zeke you
offlineMember
What a bunch of long winded knuckleheads on here. Anyone w/ half a brain should think to offer their seat to a pregnant woman. No excuses. None.
Don't tell Mrs. Gooner I called her fat.
misfit
offlineMember
I actually found ksheyman's comments to be very logical and thoughtful. It looked at either side of the situation without letting emotion cloud. That is logic. There was nothing accusatory. There wasn't any name calling. He wasn't making excuses. I cannot say the same about comments directed at him. I of course, having been raised in the South would have offered my seat...if she was cute.....HA! JUST KIDDING. But I usually sit in the back sipping my 40 oz anyways Yo!
p.s. (the last sentence was in fact, not an actual depiction of me riding the bus. I have never drank-drunk-droonk, to my knowledge, a 40 oz in the back of the bus. nor in the middle. I also try never to ride in the front because those are the elderly, preggo, wheelchair using, crutches using, blind, deaf, mute, and republican seats.)
misfit
offlineMember
Oh: Welcome back Suthii. Stir up some shit. I am getting bored!
hawthorn
offlineMember
What perfectly typical Seattle-passive-aggressive behavior:
1) Make stink-eye contact with people on a bus, implying they should intuit what you want.
2) Never actually speak to anyone about asking for what you want. (heaven forbid!)
3) Mad husband writes a forum rant about people's rudeness. (no direct contact required!)
Sure you can say, 'people should always just be courteous', but how about just asking someone to let you sit?
Next time you wonder why Seattleites have a passive aggressive reputation, glare silently into the mirror and put your hex on the reflection (but don't actually verbally confront it!)
lakreitz
offlineMember
Hawthorn - You forgot #4!
4)Log into neighbor forum and cowardly flame away!
Hey, I think that a few of the sound-offs at the PI and Times are missing your witty little posts. Maybe you should go back there.
m
offlineMember
lol lakreitz - nice call!
BTW - when slamming "typical" Seattle behavior please keep in mind that approximately 65% of our population are transplants from other states.
hawthorn
offlineMember
Don't you realize that you just logged into your neighborhood forum to cowardly flame me while accusing me of doing the same? Oh, the irony!
Mike
offlineMember
Once again, we see evidence of John Gabriel's Greater Internet Theory (Google it). ;)
Anyway, evidently people on a bus just want to take of their own business and not get involved with other peoples' business.
It's not a bad policy, from a coldly rational point of view. Getting involved exposes you to danger and liability, even if only social danger and liability. It's why normal people avoid eye contact and don't even bother to mutter "sorry" when a bum--that is, a fellow human being, in need, sharing this planet earth--begs for a dollar.
It's selfish, and up until the mid-80's (or so) it could even be called "rude". But it's also practical. And, nowadays, normal behavior.
Consider the famous "octuplet" mom. The one who already had kids, but didn't have a decent job / a way to support her *current* kids, let alone additional mouths to feed. The entire country hates her. Consider also the backlash against Obama's mortgage solution helping irresponsible people behind on their mortgages, while doing nothing for people who thoughtfully managed to stay current with their bills.
The backlash against people "needing help" is scary, and the sentiment in the public seems to be: take care of your own business, and don't take away my X (comfort, time, money, taxes, etc.) to pay for your poor decisions.
All that said: yeah, I would have given up my seat. Even though the OP's wife made the decision to A) get pregnant, and B) ride a crowded bus, I'm hardwired for gallantry. It's gotten me in trouble; for example, I've pissed off a female coworker by jumping in to lift heavy boxes. She was upset that I thought she needed help. But I'll gladly risk suffering claims of misogyny to do so again. The best it can get me is a thankful smile, and the worst it can get me is a sexual discrimination lawsuit that destroys my livelihood--not exactly a balanced reward/risk ratio. Oh well, I guess I'm irrational that way.
BlackSheep
offlineMember
Mike, as a dinky female person who can pretty much hold my own, I can tell you my feelings about when someone jumps in to help with heavy boxes: If they ask, "Can I give you a hand?", that's cool...if they just grab something away from me, not cool.
If you are respectful about it and somebody gets angry that you offered, the hell with her - it's her issue. But make sure you aren't condescending, or she's right to be offended.
ksheyman
offlineMember
i am so glad that seattle isn't full of the people from the first page of this thread. thank you misfit and hawthorne for backing me up. it's so frustrating when a person disagrees with you and seems to think that 1) you must be wrong since they don't see your side of it and 2) you must be a bad person for having that opinion. it's a mark of immaturity that some people in this world can't see past their own opinion and recognize that an opposing point of view could be valid. If everyone was like that the world would have been destroyed by nukes years ago. peace
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