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Daily news for Seattle's Ballard neighborhood |
xy-47
offlineMember
In general why do people drive so poorly in Seattle? They do not follow any rules, and everyone loves to stop 3-4 ft from each other at stop lights. Also no one ever honks - even when there is crazy stupid dangerous driving going on.
I mean I have seen the old Almost Live shows making fun of Ballard, but it seems like those jokes are real, and still hold true.
Anyone know why this is so nuts here?
Ernie
offlineMember
Because they are .......people.
schaatser
offlineMember
I was nearly hit while walking several times today. While crossing 59th at 24th near the Java Bean this morning, a woman pulled past the stop line to make a right not looking anywhere close to the direction in which she was driving. I was already in the intersection and had to jump to get out of the way.
Later, I was crossing 56th at the well-marked crosswalk that connects Viking Bank to the back of the Ballard Building. After stopping to look both ways and waiting for a break in traffic to begin crossing, I was in the middle of the crosswalk in broad daylight and no fewer than 3 cars sped through without even slowing down. I actually had to step back to avoid being hit by one of them.
Sorry to vent, but I can't believe that so many people could be so oblivious at the same time.
allisonw
offlineMember
Too many out-of-towners. It rains here, and the sometimes it's sunny. Danger!!
mickey
offlineMember
"Out-of-towners" aren't the problem. In fact, lots of us who learned how to drive in other cities know how to get through traffic safely and swiftly. Maybe it's the passive-aggressiveness so prevalant in Seattle that makes people drive like morons. The thing that really annoys me about drivers here is the seeming inability to USE BLINKER SIGNALS.
biker_girl
offlineMember
The answer to this question is always the same, and it's a very simple one. People drive poorly because they don't all drive exactly like you.
biker_girl
offlineMember
The answer to this question is always the same, and it's a very simple one. People drive poorly because they don't all drive exactly like you.
DDF
offlineMember
Pot holes. Or as my Dad says, Chuck Holes. I say, Really crummy roads right now.
Jules
offlineMember
Because at least half of the people behind the wheel are from somewhere else, that's why.
SPG
offlineMember
I believe the reason is because they can get away with it. Since there are no cops making traffic stops outside of That one stretch of Aurora drivers have no fear of being pulled over.
Jules, can you answer any question without blaming transplants?
Novalis
offlineMember
Most are from other places and insecure ?
;)
Xtophe
offlineMember
Here's my favorite Seattle move:
Turning left at a light: why do people in this town not pull into the intersection to wait to turn rather than hang back at the light? The light turns red and these morons just sit there wondering why they can't make the turn. I haven't seen this anywhere else.
Frayed Knot
offlineMember
Many idiots have brought their driving habits with them from California.
zaballard
offlineMember
I second the frustration about Seattle drivers who do not use their turn signals! They expect you to read their mind as they come to a complete stop in the middle of the road and then turn.
JM
offlineMember
Using a cellular phone while driving is a huge problem. Also, eating, drinking coffee, texting and fiddling with the stereo are distracting.
Barney Stinson
offlineMember
Seattle natives are the problem, not the transplants. No where else in the USA is it acceptable to sit at a green light, and then give the death stare to the person who dare honk at you because they have some place to go.
And I am a native!
JM
offlineMember
Drivers don't use turn signals because their left hand is holding a phone, coffee, a hamburger, iPod or a GPS.
great idea
offlineMember
I don't really drive that much, but agree that most of the people who almost hit me are talking on cell phones. One woman was particularly close to pegging me a few days ago--I was literally inches in front of her bumper when she decided to stop (at a stop sign, fancy that!) I was close enough that I probably could've read a text she was sending.
The turn signals (or lack thereof) are an issue. What really gets me is the cars that stop at the light, then when it turns green they put the turn signal on. brilliant!
All in all, Seattle's not much different than anywhere else. Drivers will still be considerate and stop for me on occasion--other times not so. We're talking about human beans after all, not to mention their gadgets.
At least half of Seattle residents (the transplants) drive well enough.
Anonymous
offlineUnregistered
Can has turn signal, please. :)
WillyB
offlineMember
This is what bugs the hell out of me: pedestrians (especially old men) who don't realize they have the right of way when I stop for them. When I stop, you go -- simple. That's actually more of a bad pedestrian problem and not a bad driver problem. I think drivers in Seattle are bad because they are just too f **king polite. They'd rather be polite than follow the rules. Several times I've been at a green light waiting for on-coming traffic to go through and drivers have actually stopped and allowed me to make a left. That's nice and all, but not the rule; they're also holding up traffic behind them -- stupid polite people!
julesage
offlineMember
willyb: its like the pemco commercials that ive seen at random times..."you go, no you go, no you go really...."
drives me nuts too.
onederfullone
offlineMember
Answer!
Because, believe it or not, you really CAN'T drive with your head up your a$$!
WillyB
offlineMember
julesage: Yes, exactly. 4-way intersections are especially bad; the driver on your right has the right of way.
julesage
offlineMember
i know! it gets to the point that the niceness turns into frustration pretty darn quick.
Alonzo Neighbor
offlineMember
I once asked a counselor about the aggressive driving habits of folks I know and love. She explained about the pack mentality where the driver acts as the alpha dog who needs to be first/get there first/fastest, etc. That would be your aggressive driver who is more important than everyone else on the road.
One of my favorites is the person in front of you who just pokes along, with their foot on/off the brake for no apparent reason, and then speeds up at the light, just making it before it turns yellow/red. What's up with that?
bikerchick
offlineMember
I'm with Barney Stinson - the problem is the natives - and I am one too. The drivers here have always been abysmal, and they seem to have gotten worse over the years. Sloppy, lazy, inattentive. I find it easier to drive in Manhattan or DC - you know what to expect from the other drivers (aggressiveness! - but that's better than pure slop).
And Schaatser - that is my pet peeve - people who come up to a stop sign and don't even slow down until they are waaaayyyy past the stop line. So easy to nail a pedestrian that way (those drivers never look to their right) and even when I am driving, it looks like they will just barrel through the stop and not yield to oncoming traffic. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.
P.S., it is possible to be a nice courteous driver without being dangerous.
jubbjubb
offlineMember
Personally I suspect it's because a lot of people in these parts do not learn to drive under pressure. They live out in the boonies and learned to drive on uncrowded roads where you don't have to follow the rules. Then they get here, to the Big City, and are not prepared. Go down to So Cal, pull the crap people do around here, and you wouldn't live long enough to worry learning to drive better. Look at all the folks that drive down here from Marysville or North Bend, they can just toodle around their roads without thinking about anyone. Think of all those horrible Snohomish County crashes.
Not to be racist, but...
I have heard from reliable sources (while I can't remember the particular citation I think I was listening to KUOW) and they were discussing the bad driving in China -- they were prepping for the Olympics as I recall; all of a sudden pathes were replaced with roads & bikes with cars. Without the history & experience of driving there were a lot of bad drivers making their own rules. If that's accurate, I'm sure we see some of these folks vacationing or moving here.
My buddy is married to a Japanese lady (like, really from Japan). He says she & her friends are terrible drivers. But, I'm not educated enough to make a guess as to why that would be, if true at all.
I have an attorney friend that was telling me about his exprience driving in India. Crazy--completely different from our rules, well no rules at all accornding to him. I suspect if someone that learned to drive in India, came here and got behind the wheel day on day one, they or someone else would have their car in the body shop momentarily.
Just recently I've noticed that Latin/Mexican guys seem to drive slowly, but obey the rules. I wonder if that's just a coincidence since I've never heard any stereotyping jokes about it. But, it got me wondering if the experience of driving south of the border, needing to be extra careful the coppers don't have any reason to pull you over and shove you in one of their legendary jails, encourages this caution.
Again, I don't mean to come off racist, but more so would suggest that the culture you come from, be it some bohunk from the hicks who thinks the sun rises and sets on his butt & the rules apply to everyone else, or some little old lady that just arrived here from somewhere that your feet provide mobility not petrol, determines how well you operate in the more densly populated nation of Ballard. I kinda bet that would apply to more than just driving. And of course, here we are the melting pot of melting pots. Just my two-cents.
wolfden
offlineMember
I lived in the east-coast before moving to Seattle and I do agree with the passive-aggressiveness claim that comes into play with Seattle drivers. They are content to do a little below 60 or somewhere between 60 and 65 in the passing lane forcing you to overtake from the right. Should you do that, chances are you will annoy the smug driver in the passing lane. Or when I hit a blinker to merge, the vehicle often speeds up to cut me off. Or even better, when someone wants to merge in front of me and I slow down, the 25-35 odd feet of space isn't enough - they need a red carpet and half a mile of merging room.
Out-of-towners might be adding to the problem but Seattle drivers are really annoying. Oh it's a drizzle, let's all slow down. Oh it's a downpour, let's all speed up. What's that shiny thing in the sky...oh now I can't drive at all with the sun in my eyes. What's that? A yield sign? Lemme come to a complete stop when there's no traffic around at all.
jubbjubb: I get your point. A friend's wife is from the Orient and he had to teach her how to lay off the gas going down a slope or hit the gas going up a slope - that was one of the hardest things for him to teach her. Apparently her measure of how fast she went was how hard her foot was on the gas pedal (and where she came from, all roads were flat with 0 slope).
Nora Bell
offlineMember
To explain the patience of pedestrians: I can't read your mind, and most of the time I can't see you through your windshield to make eye contact (dark out, bad street lighting, or those dang tinted windows). So when I stand there patiently while you stop to let me cross, I'm trying to decide if you're really stopping for me or just stopping to read a text or answer a phone call, or are simply just watching out for other cars before moving forward.
SPG
offlineMember
I've driven in Japan where I was the one that was stereotyped as the bad driver. The Japanese would give extra space when they'd see any gaijin driver. "Those westerners are so unpredictable. They don't follow the rules." And for the record if asians are such horrible drivers by race you'd expect there to be a high rate of accidents in Japan where they're all asians, right? Well hardly the case. I've seen far fewer accidents in Japan where the roads are narrower and the density is much higher. But guess what drivers aren't as good the whole world over? New drivers. Whether that driver is new because they just moved to a country where you can't get by without a car, or their country just developed to the point where people can get cars, or they're a new driver because they are fifth generation born right here in the same house, they're still new drivers without the experience most of us take for granted.
You may not want to sound racist when you stereotype by race, but by definition you are.
jubbjubb
offlineMember
Right-o SPG. You make the point I was trying to get to much more succinctly. It's a cultural thing; specific to local customs, experiences and laws.
vestlandsjenta
offlineMember
Xtophe, I believe it is illegal to go out into the 'box' to wait for a turn because you would be blocking traffic if you weren't able to turn before the light reverts to red. People are staying back to avoid tickets (same in NYC... have you seen those sings, "Don't block the box"?). I think it used to be legal but the laws have changed.
I seem to remember years ago AAA had a 50-state driving survey and WA state drivers came out #1 as "most moronic drivers". I did a google and couldn't find it so I could be remembering wrong but it did stick with me.
Moving to CA when I was 18 for school helped improve my driving. I went from being too passive and polite to more aggressive. It's just the nature of driving down there(you have to be assertive if you're going to get anywhere - there are so many freeway intersections and back-ups). I too was frustrated with WA state drivers when I moved back. Now I am glad we're all so polite - makes getting to the other lane a lot easier, and people actually give you a little wave when they cut you off or do commit some other driving faux pas.
ballardmike
offlineMember
Situational
Awareness
Challenged
Ernie
offlineMember
Maybe this is a good time to bring up my latest rant.....
I'm not surprised when I see regular ol' people driving poorly for all the reasons already mentioned above, but what really bugs me is that some of the worst examples of bad driving I see are committed by "professional" drivers, bus drivers, cabbies, etc.
My biggest gripe lately are bus drivers that take two lanes and leave 2-3 feet between them and the parked cars or edge of the road. I see this all the time on Leary, 3rd ave (outside of the bus only times) and even the Aurora bridge.
I spent several years driving a big truck, just as wide as a bus, all over the metro area, and it is MHO that if you can't drive in the normal lane with a foot or so clearance on either side then you don't know how to drive a large vehicle. I don't know if this is METRO policy or if they just have some drivers that are nervous driving the bus on staff, but it looks to me, every time I see it, to be pretty un-professional. Also, I've seen a bus run a red light at least 3 times this week.
If you think I'm being too critical, just watch when you're driving and look to see if any commercial truck drivers do the same thing, I can't remember ever seeing that.
End of rant.
Now don't even get me started on cab drivers.....
Gilman Girl
offlineMember
Hi Ernie, I'd like to get you started on cab drivers.
big cheezy grin,
gigi
idbill
offlineMember
in re: "Don't block the box"
WTF!
the Don't block the box campaign was in 2005-2006 and there is no mention of a blanket law.
If pulling into the intersection to turn becomes illegal, then it makes it very difficult to turn.
Last time I was downtown near christmas, I got stuck trying to turn right from Pine onto 3rd. I couldn't turn onto 3rd because pedestrians were crossing against the light, and I couldn't back up because there were pedestrians crossing behind my car. This was in 2008... and I've refused to drive near high pedestrian areas since.
ballardmike
offlineMember
First of all - if you are waiting to turn left at an intersection that does not have a left-turn signal PULL INTO THE DAMN INTERSECTION! Waiting behind the line means you are unaware of where you are and who's around you... and shows no intent to turn when the opportunity arises.
Second... is it asking too much for some people to pull up to the stop stripe?? I see fairly often a car length or more in front of the hood. Drives me NUTS!! =|
PS - I used to drive a bus part time and I could
get it across the bridge in one lane... I also
looked in my mirror before whipping out from
stops into traffic lanes.
growgrow
offlineMember
i am amazed this thread has stayed on topic for this many posts... good show!
BriarRose
offlineMember
That's because everyone in the world thinks he or she knows how to drive and no one else does. Life is short folks no need to waste energy getting in a lather over drivers.
mickey
offlineMember
Fair warning, I'm about to show my arrogance:
I grew up in Southern California and learned to drive in Southern California. Moved here 25 years ago, have not had a ticket for 23 years, have not had an accident for 34 years. I am covered by PEMCO, I deserve every one of my "safe driver points" and enjoy the lowest premiums of all my friends and family members.
But... apparently some still believe it's the "transplants" that are the problem...
ballardmike
offlineMember
It's the midwesterners Mickey. ;)
mickey
offlineMember
And in case you want to bone up on your driving skills, there are many organizations in our area that offer Safe Driving Courses, particularly for those age 50+. If you want a refresher, get in touch with AAA, the AARP, 911 Driving School, or "I Drive Safely."
Nobody is a perfect driver all the time, but there is no excuse for being a bad driver all the time.
mickey
offlineMember
ballardmike - I just KNEW you were gonna say that. ;-)
teigyr
offlineMember
I learned to drive in Southern California. Our/my basically mentality was get in your lane and stay out of the way meaning you don't go into the fast lane (or passing lane or whatever you call it) and go slower than the flow of traffic.
I'm probably going to make some enemies here but I'm up for lively debate. And for the record, I love WA and also love Trader Joes but I always noticed in TJ's people would just STOP in the aisle and read food labels or would otherwise not realize there are people behind them or trying to get around them. Up here reminded me of a whole state of drivers who behave like TJ shoppers.
I've noticed a lot of self-imposed traffic speed monitors here. Someone will be in one lane going maybe 1-2 miles under the speed limit and someone will be in the lane right next to them going 1-2 miles under the speed limit and nobody can get around. That's when the Calif in me comes out and I swear. Loudly.
As a sidenote, you'd think the rain would cause more accidents. It seems that way, at least. When I first moved up, I got t-boned in an intersection by someone who ran a red light. It was sunny out and when I remarked to the car rental company that I was surprised an accident happened in good weather, they said there were more accidents when it was sunny out. I don't know if that's true or not but that's what they thought.
Elliott
offlineMember
Ballardmike, you're advice to "pull into the damn intersection" reminded me of the driving test I had to take when I moved to WA twenty-one or so years ago. (At that time, everyone who moved to WA actually had to take a behind-the-wheel test. What a pain.) I almost flunked the test because I pulled out into the "damn intersection" and the light turned red before I was able to turn. I was told that I should never have pulled out into the intersection and lost the entire 5 or whatever points assigned for this particular maneuver. I also agree with your analogy to TJ's, teigyr. I find the same thing at the Holman QFC! And finally, a pet peeve of mine is how very slow drivers usually drive north on Aurora. I travel this road a lot and very often find myself frustrated (and swearing under my breath--and sometimes, unfortunately, not under my breath . . .) at the drivers who insist on going 25 mph when the speed limit is either 40 mph or 45 mph. Pick up the pace already!
Catherine
offlineMember
Elliott... the reason people go 25 there on Aurora.... is they're looking for some er... um... mobile service providers, and I don't mean the cellular type.
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMember
When driving in the Northeast, you learn to predict with a high degree of accuracy what another driver is going to do in a given situation. This is confirmed through eye contact and the incipient movements of his or her automobile. You may BOTH be driving "offensively," but it is a given that you both are operating at full awareness and possess quick reflexes.
When Northeasterns visit me (and rent cars) here, I have to tell them to disregard any presumption of skill, awareness, or reasoning on the part of others on the road. I tend to tell them that "the safest plan is to presume every car you see is about to do the dumbest thing imaginable." Generally, some other car will IMMEDIATELY come along, block 3 lanes of traffic trying to turn left, and prove me right.
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMember
BallardMike, what's with the drivers on the #44 sitting for 5 light cycles in the right lane (Market & 24th, again at Market & 15th) while the right-turning cars in front of them struggle with the trickle of slow pedestrians?
Unlike everyone else in the lane, the bus isn't turning right! Anyone with a brain would know to get in the 2nd lane! Especially since it happens every day!! (I know the stop is right after the intersection, but there's PLENTY of time to get back over with the right lane being jammed by the right-turners.)
It doesn't sound like you're the type of driver who would ever make this mistake. But why are any Metro drivers permitted to make their passengers 5 minutes later (and miss connections, etc.) over something so elementary?
Anonymous
offlineUnregistered
"(I know the stop is right after the intersection, but there's PLENTY of time to get back over with the right lane being jammed by the right-turners.)"
IMO, those bus stops need to be moved to just before the intersection.
onederfullone
offlineMember
Seriously kohi, that would muck up the intersections even worse.
Anonymous
offlineUnregistered
onederfullone, really? I think it would alleviate the issue where slow loading buses stopped just after the intersection, resulting in cars backing up in the middle of the intersection--trying to make the light, while the next cycle of the light turns.
onederfullone
offlineMember
Really, I've seen the mess before. You have vehicles in the right lane for the right turn, basically free through-out the light cycles. A Bus in that lane prior to the light will impede that lane. Unfortunately, even though the bus will be stopped for, what, 30 sec. to a minute, the number of cars that would move into the center lane to get around the bus to get back into the right lane to make their free right turn is up to two dozen, easily. Then, you have a bus, once ready to roll, that has to wait for the cars that were once behind it, plus has to wait for the signal.
Given the advent in the last few years of the yeild to bus law, it is the bus who should be utilizing it's right of way, use the middle lane to get through the intersection, avoid the right lane entirely, move to the right after the intersection.
But what do I know. They'll probably sink a bazillion dollars into train tracks and ban cars altogether.
Heb
offlineMember
Not much of a driving test is it?
I've lived and driven in a lot of places around the world and I didn't think it was too bad here. Brazil on the other hand was awful, very very scary. Brazilians it's NOT ok to back up on the interstate because you missed your exit!
I have to say I didn't know that at a 4 way stop you gave way to the right, I thought everyone took it in turns.
SunriseSunset
offlineMember
Great grief.
PhinneyLife
offlineMember
its a good question. i always thought that it was the drivers from seattle, but when i think about it, it seems that less than a quarter of the people living here are from Seattle or even the northwest region. Could so few people affect traffic so drastically, or brainwash all of the newbies to drive so terribly?
Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
offlineMember
Kohi, for the first time EVER I'm in concurrence with Onederfullone about something (not about his knee-jerk conservative anti-mass-transit aside, but about his read of the 15th & Market intersection).
It's the hampered right-turners backing up the right lane, not the buses. The last thing we want is for the bus to be FORCED to inch along in that right-lane quagmire just to reach it's designated loading point. And Onederfullone's predictions of cars going around and cutting it off to turn right in front of it accurately reflect Seattle drivers failure to yield to buses.
Ideally, the right line should become -- and be clearly marked -- "right turn only." And the never-clogged middle lane should become the only through lane. Then even brain-dead bus drivers will be able to safely bypass the backup.
(It also wouldn't hurt if Seattleite right-turners realized they can squeeze through that trickle of pedestrians instead of waiting for EVERY LAST ONE to reach the curb.)
Jeni
offlineMember
My pet peeve........people who have no idea how to use a roundabout(or traffic circle)! I can't tell you how many times I've been driving around a roundabout and someone nearly plows into the side of me because they expect me to stop on the roundabout to let them in! Don't people know that you give way to the left!!!!!! The idea is that you give way to those already going around the roundabout; they aren't supposed to stop and let you pull in front of them, that would defeat the whole purpose of having it in the first place!
Ok, that's my vent for this morning :)
NorthBeachNative
offlineMember
my pet peeve? The center turn lane IS NOT a merge lane. discuss.
ballardmike
offlineMember
You mean to pull into so you can get into flow of traffic?? I disagree.
NorthBeachNative
offlineMember
This is the best I can find and it can be interpreted in multiple ways IMO.
taken from http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.290
(c) Upon a roadway where a center lane has been provided by distinctive pavement markings for the use of vehicles turning left from either direction, no vehicles may turn left from any other lane. A vehicle shall not be driven in this center lane for the purpose of overtaking or passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction. No vehicle may travel further than three hundred feet within the lane. A signal, either electric or manual, for indicating a left turn movement, shall be made at least one hundred feet before the actual left turn movement is made.
This is what I've found so far.
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