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Chemotherapy VS. Naturopathic Medicine?

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Started 3 years ago by julesage
Latest reply from gurple

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julesage

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Good Evening:
I am posting this thread to get MIXED opinions of a very serious subject. Extra near and dear as I have lost my mother to cancer and my sister is due to begin her chemo treatments for her breast cancer tomorrow through Swedish. I really am posting this to get very open and factual opinions. I have already suggested my own naturopath, Dr. Jennifer Huntoon, in Wallingford. If any have used her, please provide feedback on her as well.

I really will cherish these suggestions and do not wany any sappy, sympathy wishes as I am just wanting her to avoid those toxins in chemo entering her precious body if at all possible. Thank you in advance for your respect & class through a very personal experience.

I just want to get as many stories and examples, either way, for her that i can and i knew you guys may have some experience with one or the other.

Posted 3 years ago #
BallardTrees

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Whichever path your sister chooses, she may benefit from getting a second opinion (if she has not done so already). For example, if she is choosing the chemotherapy route at Swedish, she might want to ask a breast clinic doctor at the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance to review her treatment plan. Likewise, if she goes the naturopathic route, make sure another naturopath reviews her treatment plan. That's one thing she can do to make sure she is getting the best care for her and her particular problem.

Posted 3 years ago #
20feet

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I have no direct experience with this topic, so I can offer only my humble opinions. Cancer is incredibly serious, and although I do not know the exact details of your sister's situation, I would think that if she has been recommended to start Chemo, she should if she has hope to survive. There is a place for western and eastern medicine though. While the chemo puts nasty yet effective medicines into her body, she should also be working with someone to nurture the soul, and strengthen the body through alternative methods that are effective. A naturopath seems like the best solution, they can also offer insight or recommend treatment such as acupuncture, or detox methods to help get the chemicals out of her body after they have done their job. So, in summary, there is no reason she can't do both, and that the doctors can't work together to help her win her battle.

I think a good detox is essential for her to do prior and during treatment, although I am not a doctor. So she obviously should be consulting with someone. Luckily we live in Seattle, close to Bastyr, one of the only universities for Naturopathic Medicine. She could also go there for advice, the clinic is overseen by professors who are likely the cream of the crop.

Good luck to your sister and family.

Posted 3 years ago #
BallardTrees

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Yeah. What 20feet said.

Posted 3 years ago #
Barney Rubble

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I am all for Western Medicine. Look at life expectancy in the far east after the adoption of western medical practices. There is almost a doubling since the sixties.

Good reading on the detoxification myth.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4083

Posted 3 years ago #
Pokerguy

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Jules, I have no opinion but I will pray for your sister, you, and your family in this difficult time. Just remember, things may be hard and they may be difficult but God is on your side.

Posted 3 years ago #
SunriseSunset

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If your sister has had surgery (?) and has been staged (?) and Swedish is the place she is scheduled to receive chemo--forge ahead and don't look back. Cancer survivor here and Swedish and Seattle Cancer Care Alliance are the best among the best in the country in recovery and long-term survival of breast cancer patients.

Plan to sign up for the free sessions on nutrition that SCCA offers once a month--excellent, organic, tailored to meet particular nutritional needs, etc.

Posted 3 years ago #
julesage

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Wow, 20feet. you dear;) thank you for your clarity & precise knowledge. exactly what we are needing..

so, to give a little more to the story, her margin tests show that they DID get all of the cancer out of her body when they did her mastectomy of her breast 2 weeks ago. her gene test came back negative. everything, per her oncologist, is gone for now but she must be VERY careful. she looks good now and is doing super. you will never know how proud i am of her and how much respect i have for her battling this cancer demon.

the chemo is suppose to up her "odds" of reoccurence to cancer in her body. now that the cancer is supposedly gone, is chemo worth it?....

that is where i think naturopathic medicine would do its job. but i do not truly know...

Posted 3 years ago #
julesage

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prior to her mastectomy, is was stage 2 breast cancer diagnosis.

Posted 3 years ago #
SunriseSunset

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All right. Her chances of doing well are +++++. Do the chemo, detox with naturopath and attend SCCA nutrition classes afterwards. A mighty long and difficult journey for 2010 but the two of you will endure, survive and knowing you from last Saturday's "women of the 'hood" I say cancer doesn't have a chance against the twain of you.

Posted 3 years ago #
julesage

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sunrisesunset: i am SO happy you responded as i was very moved by your own personal story at the sale when we were chatting. thank you so much for the words of wisdom and the suggestions.

Posted 3 years ago #
onederfullone

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Oh Julesage, sorry, sappy is all I have ;-)

Ok, well, unpopular and fraught with controversy as usual, I'd like to be hearing that she was seeking other options. Very strict diet, supplements, anything has to be a better option and worth trying. There has been a lot of study, a lot of information and results, all skewed toward the research dollars spent by drug co. r&d, IMHO.

I read somewhere that we address effects pretty well here in the west. We know to take an aspirin when we have a headache, even if we are aware that the headache isn't caused by a lack of aspirin. We aren't so bright about really curing the headache.
I think it's safe to assume that cancer isn't caused by a lack of chemo, but it doesn't mean that it's not the 'aspirin equivalent' at this stage, which will still give us the opportunity to find how to actually address the cause of the cancer.

Having been close to someone going through the process of chemo, I have no doubt it's a poison, and I really hope that she has all of the nourishment she requires, mind, body and soul. A diet that contains absolutely zero animal fat has shown positive results in situations I've seen, so have a lot of those options available for her.

Feed yourself too.

Posted 3 years ago #
julesage

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pokerguy & 1derfullone: i can't tell you how much i thank you for taking the time to post such positive comments. she is my girl, she deserves class. i thank you.

Posted 3 years ago #
crownhiller

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Jules - my sister just got an official word of remission after a year of chemo. She was fortunate not to have to go the mastectomy route - just lumpectomy. The chemo is certainly a long and wild ride - especially when she turned out to be allergic to one of the experimental drugs they gave her. Would she rather not have gone thru it all. Sure. But on the flip side is the psychological benefits of knowing she did everything she could to be here as long as she could. Its a question of what your sister needs to feel that way too. I'd agree there's room for both methods, but I'd vote for chemo if I was in that position.

Posted 3 years ago #
iceberg

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There is a naturopath on staff at the Swedish Cancer Institute. His name is Dan Labriola and he is great. I say keep your toolbox full of lots of different options. Best of luck to you both. She is lucky to have you for support Julesage and you CAN do it!

Posted 3 years ago #
iceberg

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here is a link
http://www.swedish.org/body.cfm?id=2300

Posted 3 years ago #
SunriseSunset

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julesage - It's difficult no matter what but you press forward and damn the naysayers, the sappy, the maudlin, the people who all mean well but can't possibly walk in your shoes. You find a way to deal with and accept what BLAMS you and your sister in the face from time to time and you do the best you can at other times and rail at the gods at still other times and...no matter where you are on that path...you're doing the best that you can with who you are and where you are at any particular moment.

Take it slowly, step by step and allow yourselves plenty of latitude between tears, laughs, pain and progress. It's a great trip through the unknown and it's an adventure to matter what.

I'm tickling you in the ribs, I'm holding your hands when you scream, I'm letting you be you at all times. It's a bitch and it's a blessing.

Hope this gets to you--I keep getting booted offline--hmmm.

Posted 3 years ago #
Xtophe

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Naturopathy = quackery

Posted 3 years ago #
SunriseSunset

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Xtophe - Must you be mean-spirited?

Posted 3 years ago #
Barney Rubble

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It's not a mean statement at all. There is a TON of research indicating exactly his point. The link below is just one of millions. Not to sidetrack a thread about a serious topic. Maybe the merits of the placebo effect can be discussed in it's own post.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Naturopathy/naturopathy.html

Posted 3 years ago #
Pokerguy

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Xtophe, this is not the place for that. You want to be a jerk I'll start a thread and you can go behave the way you want in it, but not here.

Posted 3 years ago #
SunriseSunset

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Its own post is not necessary. To each her own. Whatever works. . .works. I chose conventional means with my cancer but I will not judge anyone else's route to wellness.

Posted 3 years ago #
old_lady

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Julesage, I believe that naturopathic care can be a wonderful adjunct or backup to traditional cancer care.

I had a good friend who had lumps removed and then chose the naturopathic route instead of the chemo the doctors recommended. It was incredibly frustrating for her family and friends who did not have such faith in alternative medicine for primary care of a deadly disease. She finally went for chemo when her breast cancer recurred and was too advanced to stop, and so she died well before she ought to have. I suppose there are always exceptions, but statistics are with traditional methods for breast cancer. Yes, chemo is very toxic, but that just means you need to monitor it very carefully.

I wish the very best for her and for you, however you battle this.

Posted 3 years ago #
mickey

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julesage - I'm so sorry to hear that your sister is ill. Swedish is great and I have total faith she will be well taken care of there. I also think that sunrise sunset's suggestion/advice is really sound, not only because she is a survivor, but because there is a lot of evidence that chemo after surgery for stage 2 patients is very successful. A friend of mine's mother-in-law had stage 2 breast cancer and went through a regime of radiation, chemo and surgery. Yes, the chemo did make her feel icky alot of the time, but she is so glad now that she did it. That was eight years ago and she has been cancer-free ever since.

I haven't seen enough evidence regarding naturopathy and cancer treatment to make a determination about it, but I wholeheartedly agree that getting a good nutrition program going at the same time can only help your sis! She's got the best docs and she's got tons of love surrounding her, because you are there.

I'll be thinking good thoughts for you and her. If you need a stress break throughout this experience, pop over with Bella and we'll go for a walk.

Posted 3 years ago #
Mr. Crankypants

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No idea either way, julesage. Both my parents died of cancer. I wish you and your sister the best. Not much else to add other than my good thoughts for the two of you.

Posted 3 years ago #
Kat

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I don't know anyone who has taken the natural route, but my father and my grandmother both had cancer (different types) and both went to Fred Hutchinson and both had HORRIBLE experiences there, my grandmother dying the first round of chemo they gave her. With my father, they mis-diagnosed him and treated him for a cancer he didn't have. He later switched to the UW and they correctly identified and tried to treat his cancer (it was REALLY rare) but it was too far in.

My other grandmother had breast cancer and did chemo and was just fine. I think she did it though Swedish.

I hope it works out for you, cancer is a tough thing.

Posted 3 years ago #
malia

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Oh, Julesage, such a worry! My Mother had breast cancer when she was in her mid thirties. Was told she would live a year or two. Lived 50 more years. Seattle is such a great place for treatment, both Western, Eastern, and others. I really support the idea of second opinions, and those of combining treatments. Swedish, Cancer Care Alliance both have nutritionists, and naturopathic physicians as part of their treatment spectrum. And the support at Gilda's Club and Cancer LIfeline are terrific. All the best to you both!

Posted 3 years ago #
GoldBug

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Neither.
Door number 3: Nanomachines.
http://www.zmescience.com/research/photograph-nanobots-cancer-25032010/

Posted 3 years ago #
julesage

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you guys are so kind. my sister is very touched by all of the outpouring of positive vibes. we truly appreciate the good, the bad & the ugly stories and examples. she is really in a tough position with such a heavy decision. i also appreciate allowing me to teeter on that "too personal" edge. i just want all the people who can give us an opinion to do so. this was an excellent place to do that.

once again, from roads closed, crime, new stores opening and cancer. we got it covered, folks. there truly are none other than the myballard people.

Posted 3 years ago #
gurple

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It sounds to me like the doctors aren't certain that the cancer is 'gone', just that they got all of the original tumor. If that's the case, your sister's life is still at stake.

The Science and Technology Committee of the UK Parliament very recommended last month that the UK government stop funding homeopathy because it is not efficacious. Their thoughtful report would be a good place to start reading:
http://www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/science_technology/s_t_homeopathy_inquiry.cfm

From your second comment, Jules, it sounds like you're considering going against her doctors' advice and using naturopathy /instead of/ medicine. If you're going to use naturopathy as a way to improve her spirits through the process, that could certainly have a role, but it doesn't take the place of medicine that can actually heal her body.

Posted 3 years ago #
julesage

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gurple: much appreciated. i am not making the decisions and she is not going against her doctors reccommendations. we are just trying to do alot of research. we have been working on this non stop for about 2 weeks going on 3 now.

and yes, i was asking if, in any situations any of you have known, naturopathic methods to work rather than chemo.

its beginning to look like everyone suggests chemo but does see naturopathic methods to be useful in *conjunction* with said chemo. what makes you think that the doctors don't think it is gone?...that was exactly what they had said. thanks again.

Posted 3 years ago #
mickey

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Naturopathy and homeopathy are not the same. Jes' sayin'.

Posted 3 years ago #
gurple

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I was just going by what you said above, Jules -- sounds like the doctors have some reason to worry about recurrence. In that case you should follow their advice, which sounds like exactly what you're doing.

I and others above have negative opinions about naturopaths in general -- they take money from people in exchange for a hope that is not based on anything real, and they can lead people away from seeking real care. Moreover, they contribute to an anti-science culture by claiming to provide an alternative that isn't empirically based. But this thread isn't about whether naturopaths should exist, it's about you and your family and your decisions.

All the best to your sister; I hope her recovery is swift and complete!

Posted 3 years ago #
DNADave

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Julesage: While I am not a physician, I'm one of the guys helping with the analysis of the research used to guide physicians in treating disease. I've also worked for a both a pharmaceutical company and for a company producing the software the pharmaceutical companies use to analyze their experiments. From those experiences I can tell you a few things:

1) We know that chemo is pretty much a shotgun approach to treatment. Newer chemotherapies are much more targeted in the cells they kill, but are still not specific enough to only kill cancer cells. This is why you have such bad side effects from the treatment. Still, this is the most _PROVEN_ way to treat cancer we have to date. Many years of research have gone into both establishing that this is the most effective way to treat cancer and that it is better than any other method. This is the standard that the FDA uses when evaluating any new drug and it is a hard bar to pass.

2) There has yet to be a naturopathy treatment to undergo this level of scrutiny or evaluation.

3) The placebo effect is very real and is not small.

4) Combining chemotherapy and naturopathy could be very very bad. The drugs used in chemotherapy have been tested in combination with each other and have been shown to have as minimal as possible, but generallly known, side effects. Combining naturopathy treatments with chemo could produce unknown side effects which could be potentially deadly. I would highly recommend against this route.

I hope you read my statement #2 to mean that there could be real positive benefits to some naturopathy treatments, but we have no proof that they exist. It is also equally likely that these same treatments could be harmful and until proper clinical trials are performed on these treatments we will not know which is true.

I should point out that while Bastyr does research their naturopathy methods, they do not perform proper clinical trials on those methods.

Posted 3 years ago #
mickey

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DNA Dave - Wow, I'm glad you chimed in. I did not know there could be such disastrous contraindications for chemo + naturopathic. I learned something.

Posted 3 years ago #
schaatser

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Julesage -

The doctors are probably certain that they got the whole tumor out, but cancer is sneaky and if it did metastasize undetectably and is not killed off with chemo, it can be much more difficult to treat later. I am going to qualify my opinion by stating that I have been through this battle with my mother and have worked many years in related fields of scientific research. My opinions of naturopathic medicine are mixed and complex and I am leaving them out of this discussion. This is one of the times when seeing a medical doctor is more appropriate. I have a friend who is a naturopathic doctor that will tell you the exact same thing.

Go with the chemo. This is not something to mess around with. It is not going to be pleasant, but it is your sister's best chance. She is going to need a lot of support and recovery time, but with your help, you both can make it through this.

****If your sister does choose to supplement the chemo with any naturopathic remedies, BE SURE TO DISCUSS THESE WITH HER DOCTOR.**** There are several "safe" supplements and even common foods that can have serious adverse reactions with the chemo drugs and blood thinners. Just remember that pure and natural does not always equate with safe and effective.

I'm sorry that I can't go into more detail right now. I wish you and your sister the best. This is a hard journey. All I can say is that it is better to make it when the journey looks like it is going to be successful. I have seen many people return to normal lives so don't get discouraged. Please let me know if your sister needs any more information on support groups and resources.

Posted 3 years ago #
schaatser

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Wow. It is amazing how many people can post while I am slowly typing.

Posted 3 years ago #
DNADave

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Mickey: I'm not saying there ARE, just that there is a high likelihood there COULD be. The drugs used in chemo generally do not play nicely with others and there have not been studies investigating what the effects of combining chemo and naturopathic remedies are. The general behavior of of chemo drugs combined with other drugs is bad side effects, so that's what I would expect the effect to be like. These are serious drugs and side effects do include death.

There is a chance the combination could be favorable, but until proper studies have been done, we can't make any real predictions what would happen. When death is a possibility, I personally would err on the side of caution and that is what my recommendation is.

Best to listen to what your physician recommends. They'll be in tune to what remedies you can and cannot combine.

Posted 3 years ago #
DNADave

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Schaatser: What do you do? Sounds like we might be in similar lines of work... :)

Posted 3 years ago #
schaatser

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DNA - I come from a long bizarre background of biochemistry, parasitology, mol and cell biology, public health, global health, and vaccine development. I recently got fed up with the bench and decided jump ship. I am now doing data analysis for clinical trials. BTW, I love NOT doing cell culture at 3am!

I'm trying to guess where you work.

When were you in New Zealand?

Posted 3 years ago #
DNADave

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I'm working for Sage Bionetworks which currently lives in the Hutch. Before that, I was at Rosetta Inpharmatics when Merck decided to move everyone back East. I like Seattle, so hence the new gig. My training is in both Molecular Genetics (M.Sc.) and Statistical Genetics (Ph.D.). I know what you mean about early morning experiments. That's one of the reasons I moved to statistics. Well, that and I was tired of working with known carcinogens and neurotoxins...

This is the first year in the past eight that I have not gone to New Zealand. I had a collaboration with a company where I was helping them design and analyze gene expression and genome wide association studies in dairy cattle. They offered me a job when they heard Rosetta was being shut down and it was REALLY hard not to take it...

Have you ever been there? It's a lovely country!

Posted 3 years ago #
schaatser

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I was guessing that you had some affiliation with Rosetta. I'm not familiar with Sage, but I have been out of the SLU loop for a few years now.

I spent 3.5 weeks on the north island and loved it. It was hard not to look for a job there when I heard that they needed parasitologists. Sheep parasites aren't really my thing though. I am hoping to get back to explore the south island sometime soon.

Posted 3 years ago #
DNADave

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We've hijacked this thread a bit, but it was good to get to know a bit more about you.

I hope you can make it back to the South Island. It is truly beautiful there. I had a great time tramping on the Routeburn Track on the Southwest tip of Lake Wakatipu. Same views you'll get from the Milford Track, but with less restrictions on usage (you'll have to charter a tour group for the Milford Track, but you can just "show up" on the Routeburn Track).

Avoid Queenstown, though. It's like going to Vail, CO. Unless you like the atmosphere in Vail... :)

Posted 3 years ago #
ObiBunKenobi

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My father was diagnosed with B-cell lymphoma a few years ago and underwent chemotherapy. His treatment included both oral and IV medications, some of which were the actual "kill off bad cells and anything like them" drugs and some of which were intended to reduce the severity of side effects like nausea. Not everyone experiences the same side effects from chemo, or to the same degree.

DNADave already touched on what I would have, that chemotherapy may seem a broad "shotgun blast" approach to treating cancer, and hence the various side effects. Taking a medication with broader effects than on what it hopes to treat is not unique to chemotherapy for cancer; when we take antibiotics to treat bacterial infection (usually an overgrowth of a specific or unwanted bacteria), any moderate-spectrum or broad-spectrum antibiotic will kill off beneficial bacteria, as well (such as the bacteria that help us digest our food).

Posted 3 years ago #
joelsey

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Jules:
I recently helped my sister-in-law through her breast cancer treatments. Having gone through cancer treatments myself, I could at times empathize and at times sympathize.

Anyway, she did Western medicine as her primary treatment to eradicate the cancer. She had a lumpectomy, chemotherapy, and radiation. She also had treatment from a Naturopath that helped her with the side effects of the treatments, and treated the whole body and not the cancer. Nutrition and supplements were added into her diet and regimen to augment the treatments and help her recover faster.

The doctor’s all did a wonderful job of coordinating and sharing information. At time, the Naturopath did agree to modify her treatment plan, as the potential risks of adverse drug interactions were too great.

Bottom line is that I believe that the different approaches can work, provided the practioners coordinate the treatment plans and share information freely.

As a side note, if you are going to be the primary support person for her, please be sure to take care of yourself as well. Often there is no one to take care of the caretakers.

Let me know if you need anything, or if there is any way that I can help. At a minimum, I will include you and your sister in my thoughts and prayers.

Posted 3 years ago #
SunriseSunset

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Jules - Chemo first; nutrition with Bastyr and/or "Nutrition for Cancer Survivors" at Seattle Cancer Care Alliance second = reasonable decisions to make given the surgery, staging and professional medical advice and the opinions of MyBallardites. Full speed ahead, Sweetpea.

Posted 3 years ago #
Alonzo Neighbor

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Julesage - I received treatment from Dr. Huntoon for about a year for a variety of ailments, but nothing as serious as cancer, and continue with her enzyme regimen. Although I was helped by several of her remedies, one of her main procedures caused me harm that still bothers me to this day. Her Bowen method treatments helped with knee pain but caused severe hand and upper arm pain that she would not own up to. My point is that, even though a doctor of any type has success with most patients, not everyone is the same. Even natural remedies can pack a very powerful punch and should be used with extreme care, especially when in combination with allopathic medicine. I hope your sister finds the best care possible.

Posted 3 years ago #
julesage

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i just wanted to truly say THANK you for these awesome suggestions, thoughts & encouragement. i am off now to go spend the day with my sis and keep her spirits happy. thank you to you guys who took the time out of your already busy lives to send my sister warm wishes and to educate us further on this topic. as i stated earlier, we have been through cancer with our mom, but, that was almost 23 years ago now and treatments and advances have done SO much since then. our moms started at age 27 as breast cancer, moved to the other breast, and matastasized onto her liver, and then ultimatley her brain tumor was what killed her. hers was not caught ealry at all. it has been a ride, indeed.

while i do support my naturopathic ways, i also know and use medication when it is needed for the right reasons. i also know that there is a time and usage for certain treatments and not others. i also have already been to The Cancer Care Alliance to personally have MY own mammogram and screening done that i am happy to announce all has come back just fine and normal at this point in the game. i am 39, they now want me to get a mammogram every YEAR going forward with the history of my mother & sister having breast cancer. i can not express the professionalism and expertise, along with overall greatness that is overflowing at The Cancer Care Alliance facility.

dna dave & schaatser, i would cherish the opportunity to pick your brains a bit more on a few other ailments if i ever get the pleasure of meeting either of you in person! your professions are very inspiring and interesting to me.

the rest of you, here's a big hug from julesage to you! i feel lucky to be part of our community;)
have a great weekend everyone.

Posted 3 years ago #
DNADave

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Julesage: You would be welcome to chat with me anytime. I may not always have the expertise to help you, but I have a pretty extensive network of friends who are experts in other fields and might be useful. Google my nickname and send me a PM anytime you want to chat.

Posted 3 years ago #
Cookiesballard

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Julesage, I am so sorry to hear about your sister. I lost my sister 8 years ago but did alot of research when she was going through it. Keep in mind that the drugs have improved greatly in the last 8 years.

Here are some questions to ask: Is it hormone based or non-hormone based? With a mastectomy I am assuming it is hormone based, which is better. If it is non-hormone based then attack as aggressively as possible.

Were any lymphnodes found that contained cancer? If so, how many? More than one, attack aggressively.

While I like to follow naturopathic views, I feel that it is not appropriate in most cancer cases. I have many friends that have tried all of the approaches, traveled to different countries to try alternative approaches that were "proven" effective, which are not true. They all regretted going off of their chemo and unfortunately have all passed.

The decision of doing chemo with a hormone based cancer is a very personal choice and I am not sure which way I would pursue this myself, knowing what I have witnessed. Chemo is a more of extra protection to make sure everything is gone. However, chemo kills your immune system as well. People like Suzanne Somers and Fran Drescher who tell you to go the natural way seem to leave out that they had lumpectomies, so they did not go 100% natural and their cancer was obviously a hormone based cancer that had not gone into their lymphnodes.

If your sister decides to mix chemo with naturopathic, make sure that the doctor knows Western medicine as well because the mixture of both can have horrible effects. Bastyr is really bad for this because they are not familiar with the chemo drugs so they are not familiar with the reactions that may happen when mixing their drugs with chemo. Just because it is natural doesn't mean it isn't harmful. I do know a doctor that was a western medicine doctor that now practices naturopathic if she decides to use both

If you want more info or to talk you know where I am.

Posted 3 years ago #
BriarRose

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When my sister was diagnosed with incurable brain cancer her oncologist told us chemotherapy was not recommended. He did recommend surgery and a short treatment of radiation that would giver her maybe 50 weeks. She did the surgery and radiation but then her husband got to the desperation stage and started looking into other possibilities. He asked about chemo and the oncologist said that chemo could kill any cancer anyone had but the issue was how much patient would be left. He looked into a Naturopath and found one who guaranteed a cure ……………for $100,000 up front. He then looked into chemo and talked her into a trial at Fred Hutchinson.

She died in 50 weeks. Sadly due to the chemo trial her last 10 weeks were nightmare of pain and suffering that would not have been the case if she had stopped at the radiation. Brain cancer of course is not breast cancer.

I have always considered Naturopathy to be quackery however when our cat was crushed by a car and still alive in the middle of the night with no vet available to put him down, my neighbor, a naturopath, gave him one of those ‘water’ medication by mouth. He immediately stopped crying and died peacefully in about 20 minutes. Maybe it would have happened that way no matter what but I know a cat cannot be convinced of mind over matter.

Who knows? Personally I would not go to a naturopath unless I had no possible other option. I would also not take chemotherapy.

Posted 3 years ago #
Mamasings

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Julesage, my heart gos out to you and your sister. I lost my mom to brain cancer last year, and I know how mentally and physically exhausting it is to have a loved one who is sick (and I wasn't even the primary caregiver - my lovely dad was). I'd like to second joelsey's advice to take care of yourself, too. I think it helped me to have something that anchored me to the everyday. Forme, that was my husband and two littles.

You've gotten lots of more specific advice on here than I can offer, but I can share something that helped my mom quite a bit through her treatment. My dear mom, who was not really a "woo-woo" type, had a meditation exercise she did with her best friend from high school, who was living far away. Every day during her treatment, both of them together would visualize he cancer cells, and would see them being gently surrounded by light, and together they would ask them to leave. Obviously there's no conclusive evidence of something like that working, bit it made such a difference in her attitude about her treatment, especially as she was claustrophobic and had a lot of fear surrounding radiation. It was so touching to think about these lifelong friends doing this together.

And briar rose, I am so sorry to hear that you lost your sister this way. Brain cancer is such an unforgiving illness, and the treatments can be just as terrible.

Julesage, you and your sister will be in our prayers. Please keep us updated.

Posted 3 years ago #
Wrier Brose

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Interesting Alternative Medicine story out of Portland:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/alternativemedicine-practitioner-refuses-alternati,5231/

Posted 3 years ago #
ctf

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Hi Julesage,
Would you please update us on your sister? Did she start chemo? If so, how is she tolerating it? I hope she is doing well. She is in my thoughts.

Posted 3 years ago #
julesage

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ctf:
so kind of you to ask, thank you. she actually DID begin chemo. she is going to have 4 sessions total. 1 down, 3 to endure. she is actually in surgery RIGHT NOW. the doctor told her Monday at her followup appointment that her scar from where they removed her breast is not healing the way he wants it to. So, today they are doing a 3 hour surgery to solve the healing issue. I will let you know how she is after I see or speak with her this evening indeed.

Thanks again, to ALL of you who chimed in with such class, on such a dear topic to me. It has been very stressful as it is SO difficult to see others you love so much, hurt so bad and there is not much I can tangibly do. It stings!

Thanks again. Have a nice, wet evening out there;)
J.

Posted 3 years ago #
Anonymous

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Julesage - sadly I have some recent experience with this question because one of my best friends died of brain cancer last summer. A few years before that a friend of the family battled lymphona and beat it.

If your sister has any reservations about chemo she should get a second opinion, but if both doctors feel it is important to help stave off a re-occurence of the cancer, then I think it's important to listen to them. Also, I'm pretty sure that a detox while doing chemo would be extremely difficult and possibly dangerous on the body. For one thing, the chemo drugs need to be in the body to do their job (in short kill of the bad cells). Plus, the body will have a reaction to the chemo and to suddenly throw it into something as extreme as a detox could make it a lot harder to recover and return to homeostasis.

That said, my friend who died did have a naturopath who worked in conjuction with her oncologist and they were able to work on ways to help keep the chemo side effects down and keep her more comfortable. But like with B.R.'s experience, brain cancer is pretty impossible to beat and she fought the good fight and lost. But I don't think it's because of failed treatments or because naturopathy or chemo is bad, I think it's because brain cancer is just a nasty close to impossible cancer to recover from.

For my two friends the most important component was that the naturopath and Western medicine doctors knew what each other were doing and made sure not to prescribe things that would be contraindicated.

As far as chemo goes, I took a chemotherapy drug the first year after I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. When I took the pill form it made me sick to my stomach so I switched to the injectable form and didn't have any side effects. Some friends were horrified - "why would you willingly put poison in your body???" Well, because the poison got me from the place where I couldn't make a fist or pick up a pencil or walk farther than a few feet with extreme pain, to being able to go jogging, start knitting again and ride horses. Chemotherapy is not all bad, especially if it can save someone's life.

Anyway, I'm sorry you've had to go through so much with your family being sick! That must've been really awful. I'm glad your sister is going to be ok!

Posted 3 years ago #
motorrad

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Hey Julesage- There are plenty of closed minded people here talking out there butts. Here is my 2 cents that comes from interviews and discussions with western doctors about acupuncture and my personal experiences with it.

Why not use everything you have at hand to fight this. Utilize both worlds. Chemo is brutal but there is some success. Acupuncture has great success in some areas. I do not know it's effectiveness for cancer of this type but It is very well known for it's pain reducing ability. It is very well known for boosting and energizing the immune system. Both of these qualities are recognized by many western doctors and are beneficial in your case. Also nausea reduction. It gets the body to use it's own chemicals and systems to make things right. A very skeptical friend with years of ovarian cysts reached a critical stage. They were not cancerous but were life threatening. No surgeon would take her case because the chance of surviving surgery were only 50%. She finally found a surgeon that took her on and was very open minded. He gave a western treatment that included hormones and medication while she also saw an acupuncturist that also prescribed herbs. What finally got her to the acupuncturist was pain that was so bad that the strongest narcotics couldn't make the pain tolerable. When ultrasounds were done, the surgeon was amazed at the rapid size reduction. Also the pain reduction was very important. He knew that his treatments could not be working that fast. This is but one example but the closest to your situation. I do want to reiterate Schaatsers warning about taking herbal and naturopathic remedies without discussing the combined effects. In my friend's case she had an open minded surgeon that gained new tools for improving his patient's conditions. She didn't need surgery and has controlled the cysts with acupuncture and herbs breaking a long cycle of surgery every 3-5 years. Even if acupuncture can't cure the cancer it will most definitely help pain issues and energize the body to counteract the negative affects of the chemo. Best of luck.

Posted 3 years ago #
julesage

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ballardmama: methotrexate, huh? they did the same to me when i was diagnosed 4 years ago now with RA myself. i took it for a month and stopped. i could not tolerate it at all. yuck! that said, i am doing great now. daily i have my mixture i must pop but its worth it for now. best of luck to you, hang in there.

motorrad: thanks so much for your story. i personally think acupuncture is amazing and have it done to me about twice a month. its great.

my sister is home and resting well. today went good, but, she now has quite a few staples holding closed the new incision to repair the excess skin from the mastectomy. it looks much better she says and will heal nicely. she is on even more meds now as to prevent infection at this point.

thanks again, guys. your words always make me feel better and give me a chance to look at this from different angles. have a nice night!

Posted 3 years ago #
Anonymous

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julesage - did you try the injections for methotrexate? For some reason that has less side effects but I know a lot of people don't like to give themselves shots. I have a strange past which makes me not at all squeamish about giving myself shots.

What is your mixture? Nowdays I'm just on enbrel and a bunch of nutritional stuff like high doses of omega-3's, vitamin c and vitmin D. I'm sure you know by now that vitamin D is really important!

I wanted to chime in on acupunture - although it didn't take all my symptoms away like the methotrexate did, it did alleviate my symptoms a lot and thus make it so I didn't have to take so much of the heavy-duty meds. I also know that is works wonders for nausea too because friends used it to treat morning sickness and I used acupressure to relieve morning sickness and it was very effective. I wish I had a scientific explanation how it works. But then Reiki has helped me too and I really don't have a scientific explanation for that (and it drives me nuts that I don't!)

I'm on the "use both in tandem" team though.

What's with the Kurt Cobain avatar? He's kinda freakin me out ... ;)

Posted 3 years ago #
julesage

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my daily mixture is prednisone, sulfasalazine, hydroxychloriquine, vitamin D, vitamin C, and lots of kisses from the best dog in the universe! ill give you my email if you want to discuss RA more, off of this forum please. thx;)

Posted 3 years ago #

Daily news for Seattle's Ballard neighborhood

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Chemotherapy VS. Naturopathic Medicine?

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