61. 

    Edog
    

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    In Ballard, a car is often required to enter the crosswalk simply to see around the cars parked too close to the corner.

    Posted 2 years ago #
62. 

    Ballardissmallilikeanonymity
    

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    Jaywalking laws are stupid, no matter where you are. Unerring deference to them and heavy enforcement of them are both signs of an diseased urban ecology. Plus, as Ernie said, if you jaywalk in a way that remotely disrupts traffic (or gets you caught), you're doing it wrong!

    Posted 2 years ago #
63. 

    Dweezil
    

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    We live in a mostly democratic society where majority mostly rules. If you don't like jaywalking laws, make a petition, get it to a vote.

    Done and done.

    Posted 2 years ago #
64. 

    Cate
    

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    Just wondering how much money Seattle makes off of our (in)famous Jaywalking tickets?

    Posted 2 years ago #
65. 

    SPG
    

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    AllisonW screeched:"Well if having an immaculate driving record and a couple of decades of motorcycle riding (and the respect for the road that comes with that) then color me incompetent. SPG, way to talk out the side of your neck, again."

    First, since we have no enforcement an immaculate driving record is meaningless. You can drive like a nut and not get a ticket because nobody is getting tickets no matter how many laws they care to misinterpret.
    Second, you do not have "the respect for the road" because you admittedly don't bother to follow the laws just so you can push through crosswalks faster.
    Third, I do color you and half the drivers as incompetent or at least below average. A competent or above average driver has the self restraint to let people get through the crosswalk without having to zoom through.

    Posted 2 years ago #
66. 

    cdpenne
    

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    Spuriuos Pugnacious Guy strikes again! That pretty much says it all. I bet you are one of those people who stands in the middle of the crosswalk picking your nose with your middle finger. No wait, you're one of those people who won't turn right for three cycles of the light becuase you no longer remember whether 3 seconds or 30 minutes has passed. But that makes you a "good" driver! If you were forced to listen to yourself screech you'd start babbling so much crap your tongue would have to be called Charmin.

    Posted 2 years ago #
67. 

    racerX
    

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    we can all get through the intersection if peds and cars can cooperate

    Hey, I think allisonw has a good point there.

    Also, if a car has already entered the intersection before a pedestrian or bicycle has left the curb, the pedestrian or bicycle shall not suddenly leave a curb. At least that is what I can tell (and I could be wrong) from reading the following:

    RCW 46.61.235

    Crosswalks.

    (2) No pedestrian or bicycle shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or otherwise move into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop.

    Posted 2 years ago #
68. 

    racerX
    

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    cdpenne ftw!

    Posted 2 years ago #
69. 

    allisonw
    

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    Penne pasta, well said.

    If nose-picker is even allowed to drive, I bet he is one of those who is too stupid to pull out into the intersection when waiting to turn left. Same thickhead who holds faster traffic up in the left lane of the freeway, and doesn't do head checks before changing lanes.

    Just a guess, but I am not assuming he even knows how to drive a car.

    Posted 2 years ago #
70. 

    Cate
    

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    Wow, this is getting nasty. Odd, I drive this intersection twice a day every day (Mon-Fri) and walk 2-3 times a day (Sat-Sun) and don't find it all that bothersome either by foot or by car.

    Posted 2 years ago #
71. 

    cloudblues
    

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    Me either, Cate. Used to commute through that intersection twice a day and never had pedestrian issues. Maybe just the directions I was going were ok? Hmm. Anyway, I'd love it if it was an "all walk/allstop" intersection, heading over to chime in on that!

    Posted 2 years ago #
72. 

    mghart
    

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    I wonder how an "all walk/allstop" intersection would work there? It seems like it would have to be an added cycle, since there are so many streets coming into that intersection. It works well at First and Pike, but there are only two lines of traffic coming into that intersection (northbound and southbound on First, since Pike is a one-way going east, and the entry to the market is also one way going west), whereas here there are six entering, if I count correctly (Market east and west, Leary north, 22nd north and south). Seems like adding an "all walk/allstop" cycle might just gum up traffic here.

    How about a longer pause after the red light comes on before the walk signal does? Just another second or two. I think the yellow cycle just doesn't last long enough for hurried drivers to get through the longest parts of that wide intersection. In some directions, if you start into the intersection on yellow, it's tough to make it all the way through before the light goes red and the walk signal lights.

    Posted 2 years ago #
73. 

    Ernie
    

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    SPG: "Third, I do color you and half the drivers as incompetent or at least below average."

    Now I don't know (and neither does SPG) which category AW is in, but if "immaculate" means no accidents, pedestrian or otherwise, she must be doing something right.

    As for the statement above, IMO far less than half of all drivers are actually incompetent, but it is certainly a mathematical fact that half of all drivers are below average :-)

    Posted 2 years ago #
74. 

    Dweezil
    

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    One of the not-so-obvious benefits of the all-way stop is that an entire lane would not have to sit at a green light waiting on pedestrians so that one car can turn right. Just having such an intersection at 22nd and Market would be great. Covering Leary as well might be a stretch.

    Posted 2 years ago #
75. 

    allisonw
    

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    I think Leary needs to be included. My problem at that intersection is turning south on Leary from eastbound Market. There's a bus stop, and it's a 5 way. Moving the bus stop would also help.

    Posted 2 years ago #
76. 

    SPG
    

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    cdpentupanger, I got a good laugh from your comment while reading it standing in the middle of the crosswalk with a dozen cars backed up waiting. Good stuff. I can see why your blog is so popular. Aaaanyway...do you think it's a good idea to zip through the intersections within inches of people trying to cross it? Mowing down your neighbors to save a few seconds sounds like a good idea to you, or are you still angry at me from something else? I thought you were okay with me after I sent the flowers?

    Ernie, Yes. You got the point. Fun with statistics, but seriously about 95% of drivers believe that they are above average.

    racerx, ftw? Seriously? Why not just make a bunch of threads and start each one with "first!"
    It is a little ironic that someone who takes the screen name of racerx would quote traffic law, but the point about stepping out into traffic is moot if there is a stop sign or a red light as the vehicle must stop anyway.

    To the greater point of pedestrians and drivers cooperating at intersections, yeah, that would be nice, but don't expect Grandma to leap out of your way because you want to zoom through a busy intersection. That person seeming to walk slow? How do you know they didn't just get off crutches and are moving as fast as they can? Not all of them, I'm sure, but some people can only move so fast and do you want to be the one intimidating the disabled? It is annoying to have to wait for someone to cross two seconds after the last person just got out of the way, but c'est la vie...at least you're sitting in a comfy warm car and not trying to get across the street in the rain. If you really want to complain about pedestrians, try to get through 65th and 15th going west when school lets out. The kids will cross against the signal and keep all traffic from moving if one car has to turn right.

    Posted 2 years ago #
77. 

    eric
    

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    i drive through that intersection at 7am-ish and 4-4:30pm-ish several days a week. i really don't see what the big deal is. it is totally possible to avoid the intersection also. its not much to ask for some safety and civility on the streets and in crosswalks in particular, where peds are vulnerable. whats to argue here? and namecalling? sheesh.

    Posted 2 years ago #
78. 

    racerX
    

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    SPG, moot point? Maybe, but I don't see any mention of a stop sign or a red light.

    RCW 46.61.235

    Crosswalks.

    (1) The operator of an approaching vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian or bicycle to cross the roadway within an unmarked or marked crosswalk when the pedestrian or bicycle is upon or within one lane of the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning. For purposes of this section "half of the roadway" means all traffic lanes carrying traffic in one direction of travel, and includes the entire width of a one-way roadway.

    (2) No pedestrian or bicycle shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or otherwise move into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply under the conditions stated in RCW 46.61.240(2).

    (4) Whenever any vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian or bicycle to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass such stopped vehicle.

    http://www.cityofseattle.net/transportation/pedrcw.htm

    I think allisonw made a good point a few posts back: "we can all get through the intersection if peds and cars can cooperate". I'd add: if we all paid attention to our surroundings.

    FWIW, I travel that intersection weekly (walking or driving) and never have a problem.

    Posted 2 years ago #
79. 

    cdpenne
    

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    Spurious:
    1.Not being what it purports to be; false or fake
    separating authentic and spurious claims
    2.(of a line of reasoning) Apparently but not actually valid
    this spurious reasoning results in nonsense

    As in "we have very poor native drivers lulled into a belief that they are actually very good drivers because they never get pulled over and ticketed for their daily shenanigans like plowing through crosswalks"

    And "Mowing down your neighbors to save a few seconds sounds like a good idea to you."

    I don't remember flowers... but I'm "okay" with you. Always have been. I enjoy a little banter even if it is spurious.

    Posted 2 years ago #
80. 

    allisonw
    

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    No one has suggested driving inattentively or mowing down neighbors, or threatening to do so either....except you, Nose Picker.
    My observations of pedestrians at that intersection, specifically peds crossing westbound across Leary as I am attempting to make a right turn to southbound Leary from eastbound Market is that peds expect vehicles to not enter the intersection if they are ANYWHERE in the crosswalk, not just in the adjacent lane. I always duck into the westernmost southbound lane too, to acknowledge I see the pedestrians and am not going to mow them over. I do not dilly-dally either, as I know that intersection's problematic for everyone. What's a below-average Seattle driver to do? *wink*

    Posted 2 years ago #
81. 

    Jonathan Pryce
    

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    Just a general reflection on this transportation related thread, and on the legion of similar discussions on myballard: It's interesting how the issues on gettin' from A to B seem to elicit the most, er, ah, shall we say, passionate responses from folks.

    [SATIRE ALERT!]

    Common themes, my biased take, tongue firmly, yet polemically, in cheek, (whew, almost ran out of commas there):

    Bikes vs. cars.

    Bikes don't pay no road taxes.

    The bus is for suckas and the service sucks and, well, it all just sucks. Really. Sometimes you even have to sit next to an eastsider, like, someone from Phinney Ridge or Green Lake or, worse, someone who just moved to Ballard less than a year ago.

    Those satanic SUVs . . . those rows of little silhouettes of grandmas and strollers on the driver's side door tell the true tale.

    Potholes are sucking the very lifeforce out of me.

    Pinko Mayor McFrommage is out to social engineer this city into a buncha sprout eatin', bike ridin' zombies.

    Pedestrian zones?! What's next, a takeover by the Soviet Socialist Republic of the EU?

    [ALL CLEAR]

    Disclaimer: OK, it was funny for me. If anyone else found it amusing, to paraphrase military parlance, I guess that's just collateral humor.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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