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Crosswalks: 22 Av NW / NW 56th & 57th Streets

(46 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by SmartsyArtsy
  • Latest reply from great idea
  1. There have been comments here before about problems at one or both of these intersections; comments by both pedestrians and drivers, cyclists.

    Yesterday, I reported a license plate# and the reckless, aggressive action of the driver. This, after 3 close calls I have had as a pedestrian in these crosswalks within 2 weeks.

    The police told me to dial 911 and report the plate# next time (I called non emerg#). As I agree, only with compiling complaints will there be the possibility of anything being done.

    I think motorists and cyclists should voice their complaints too. Whatever mode of transportation used, the current traffic rules are not working.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. Gackpoid

    Gackpoid

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    I’ve been this close to getting crushed under rogue Subaru Outbacks on those intersections dozens of times. But I’d feel awfully self-righteous calling 911 just to report a bad driver. I just thank my guardian angels and get on with my life, you know?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. Mondoman

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    Thanks, SA; never quite sure what to do in such cases.

    BTW, looks like you might have picked up a cyber-stalker.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. This one comes out every 3-4 months to be an ___. Sound like another stalker we know?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. Gackpoid

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    Two replies warrants the label “stalker,” Mondo? In that’s the case, wouldn’t you technically be MY stalker? As long as you’re not running me down while I’m trying to cross the street by the QFC, I think we can get along just fine.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. racerX

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    Interesting... I've never had any close calls while crossing there--or at other crosswalks; maybe because I tend to pay attention when crossing the street and never assume that a car is going to see me or stop.

    It's really not that difficult... is it? O_o

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. great idea

    great idea

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    On 22nd? That's not a very busy road. 24th might be hard to cross, but I could probably crawl across 22nd without fear of getting pegged.

    we're talking about the two intersections north of Market st, right? don't they both have stop signs even?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. Lou98107

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    It's often dicey around Bartell Drugs, especially when people are focused in on getting their large, vintage car into the parking lot. But I've had more near-misses up towards 58th, where 22nd is so crowded. I don't remember it being that bad several years ago, but I think when they put the new park in, 22nd and 58th got narrower.

    Thanks for the info, Smartsy Artsy.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. Ballard Ninja

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    +1 racer. I don't know the circumstance Smartsy is referring to, as I didn't witness it. However, I think it needs to be noted that pedestrians, as a whole, need to be a little more cautious using crosswalks. I get that you have the right away, but it seems to me it would be wise, for your well being, to pay attention when crossing streets. Look both ways, proceed with caution. A crosswalk isn't an invisible force field. If you get hit it will hurt.

    I'm not saying the drivers aren't at fault most of the time in these cases, but I don't know how many times I've seen someone crossing a street without even looking for oncoming cars, just cruising along in their own world. It's ok if you can't cross the street right away. Wait for a second or two on the curb, it's not going to kill you. The opposite might.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. Alferd Packer

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    SA, thanks for bringing this up. I think SDOT uses some kind of points system to determine whether to upgrade crosswalks or signals. Would calls to the non-emerg line or 911 with near accidents even make it into the count at SDOT? If I understand properly it had to be real accidents, injuries, deaths. Does anybody know how this works? I have a candidate intersection where I work (so definitely not in Ballard).

    I did not used to think 22nd and 57th was a problem intersection because it seemed so low volume, but I have seen a couple of odd incidents there over the last year or two where someone stopped in their car looks both ways then starts to proceed through an occupied crosswalk, then makes a sudden stop. I wonder if there is a visibility issue there with visual interference from the park, the homeless activity, the library, parking cars.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. Enlightened1

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    Seems to be making something out of nothing, IMHO. Be careful when crossing the street. Duh!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. Why does this post have to manifest bashing by angry all-competent people?

    If you've encountered a situation that merits reporting to the police, then just do that. If not, I'm so happy for you, OK?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. Dweezil

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    22nd/57th is not a problem for me, but I avoid 22nd/56th as both a driver and a pedestrian as much as possible.

    High traffic at a 4 way stop is bad enough with drivers uncertain about when it is their turn, then throw in high foot traffic and it really turns into a cluster-eff. This intersection is a good candidate for an all ways crosswalk with traffic lights. (I'd like to see a few all ways crosswalks in Ballard)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. racerX

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    SmartsyArtsy posted:

    Why does this post have to manifest bashing by angry all-competent people?

    "angry all-competent people"... What exactly is that supposed to mean?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. motorrad

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    To all the entitled pedestrians that leap into the intersection and feel they don't have to break stride to wait their turn to cross:

    When the traffic changes get made at 24th and market by those wisemen <sarcasm> The intersections on 22nd will be even worse!!!!! Impatient drivers that have waited for 3 cycles of the lights at Leary and not wanting to wait 4 more cycles at 24th will be careening onto 22nd to beat the herd. I suggest looking before you leap.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. iPlod

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    What Dweezil & motorrad said.

    That intersection needs a traffic light.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. racerX

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    "That intersection needs a traffic light." Which intersection, exactly? IMHO, there is no traffic light needed on any stretch of 22nd, from 56st to 65st.

    You were kidding, right?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. iPlod

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    57th & 22nd needs a traffic light. A zillion close calls due to rush hour confusion on the part of pedestrians & drivers in the dark & rain isn't enough?
    Or do we need to wait for a certain number of injuries/fatalities to actually happen in order to bring some sense to that intersection?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. oldguybc

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    Light's not gonna help you, 'Plod... comin' fer ya...

    "Better not cut up, nor otherwise harm no whores... or I'll come back and kill every one of you sons of bitches..." <huge roar of thunder>

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. racerX

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    iPlod, I still think (hope) you're kidding (hard to tell with your odd sense of humor, though.) We're talking about a freaking side street, for crying out loud. What's needed is common sense, not a damn stop light.

    Ped: Look both ways... any cars? No, walk. Yes, wait.
    Car: Stop at the intersection... any peds? No, go. Yes, wait.

    Please tell me you were having a joke at racer's expense. O_o

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. iPlod

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    Ped: Common sense? Nah.

    Car: Common sense? HAHAHA!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. iPlod

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    oldguybc, be warned, I'm attending a refresher course on squinting.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. racerX

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    Well, I did common sense was needed. Cars, bikes, motorcycles, peds, etc...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. pennygirl

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    Traffic lights for everyone! On every corner of every intersection!

    In all seriousness, drivers pay attention, and walkers pay more attention. That's how it works in a perfect world.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. iPlod

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    Why yer spot on penny! Perfect worlds don't need no traffic lights or any Ballards either!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  26. pennygirl

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    Right on iPlod!

    I could do without the chickens also :-)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  27. iPlod

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    I've never met a chicken that didn't jaywalk.
    !%#$@ chickens!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  28. motorrad has a point here, sort of... pedestrians ALWAYS have the RoW, and it is frustrating for drivers who may have to sit and wait and wait. However, some don't wait and wait; they just wait then zoom. The pedestrian who is walking across suddenly has a car speeding behind; speeding because there is yet another pedestrian about to cross.

    Bad for both. Thanks, motorrad, for being honest about the driver's PoV.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  29. oldguybc

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    Ok 'Plod, will keep on practicing...

    “I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya... punk?”

    Posted 2 years ago #
  30. iPlod

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    Not feeling to lucky, oldwood.

    Part of my "How to Squint" seminar involves a blowtorch & pliers.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  31. pennygirl

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    Did I tell you about the time I had to try and catch an errant duck at the intersection of 8th and 95th? During rush hour? I didn't? Damn.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  32. iPlod

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    Meh, errant ducks aren't worth your trouble. Now truant ducks, then you call 911.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  33. pennygirl

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    I left the little ducker in the middle of traffic after I nearly got run over by a big old truck.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  34. iPlod

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    Probably running from his mom, a little motherducker.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  35. pennygirl

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    As I ran from the mothertrucker.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  36. iPlod

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    And now yer a truckin mother! YAY!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  37. racerX

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    Common sense, people... common sense. Seems to be lacking in these here parts.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  38. cdpenne

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    Every body is out for their own. Bottom line. Plain and Simple. I walk. I bike. I motor bike and I drive a cage.

    Do this. Try a little experiment. Give in to your urges. Step in front of a moving car because you have the ROW. Scowl at the driver trying to turn right because you have the ROW. Honk at the J walker who made you slow down. Honk at the a hole who is standing in the middle of road a mile from any cross walk glaring at you. Ride your bike up the side of traffic and then make everybody go slow because you think they should share the road and stop gobal warming. ya ya ya ya ya.

    What the world needs now is lights sweet lights...

    No what we need now is less people hoping for rules and regulations to make them feel safe, comfortable and cared about.

    What we need now is less entitlement and more self reliance.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  39. racerX

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    Yes, EXACTLY!!!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  40. Problem is, I cannot control the other person and neither can you. It's about the unexpected; easy to keep safe if it was the expected.

    P.S., nor do I want to control the other. I want he/she to control themselves. If any of us could always keep themselves safe there would be no need for rules.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  41. cdpenne

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    Self reliant people are kind and courteous. Entitled people are beligerant assholes. Try the entitled approach for a day and you'll see what I mean. You'll want to have a shower.

    We don't need more laws. We need more adults. Sadly, I think America is lacking. As much as I hate to admit it, there seem to be a whole lot overgrown softboys(girls) in the America (seattle) today.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  42. User has not uploaded an avatar

    lyl

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    cdpenne for the win again!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  43. great idea

    great idea

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    'overgrown soft girls' for the win

    Posted 2 years ago #
  44. cdpenne

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    BTW, I Have to credit Briar Rose with the "overgrown softboys" term.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  45. dsomers

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    TLDR alert!

    Mmmm.

    As folks have said, a lot of times these issues are simply 1 person not showing courtesy or common sense towards another person. In the case of secondary streets with stop signs as controls, or with no traffic controls that is certainly the case. As you have all said…If everyone makes an effort to be both cautious and courteous we'll all get where we are going without too much delay. As to why we seem to have dropped courtesy and caution when we approach each other...I don't have a clue. Perhaps as CD and BR have suggested it is an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. Perhaps it is lead in our water. Or we were all dropped from a height shortly after birth in a giant hospital based conspiracy to incapacitate the nation. <smile>

    But, in other cases it seems we have set the traffic system up in a way that creates conflicts.

    For example, take 24rth/Shilshole and Market in downtown Ballard (actually..this is true on most of the Market Street Intersections.) If you are traveling east on Market and you want to turn onto Shilshole there are issues. This intersection has a lot of pedestrians. When the traffic light is in the favor of the east bound driver you also have an east/west bound walk light active. So drivers trying to turn onto Shilshole have to yield to the pedestrians. During busy times pedestrians are scattered everywhere and the stream of people across the intersection is constant. If you get one or two cars able to turn in a light cycle that is good. You end up with a long line of people in that lane, all growing impatient that they just watched a relatively long light cycle in their favor go by and they haven't moved much. The traffic pattern is set up in such a way that the walk light and the traffic light conflict. Not good. Small wonder people get frustrated and rush the pedestrians. And…my guess is that by the time they approach the next intersection with less control on it they are still wired from their frustration at that last light, and so are less likely to be courteous or show restraint and common sense. Their fuse is a bit shorter perhaps.

    It might make more sense in these cases to change the light cycle to one that has an all way crossing for peds. Once during the light cycle peds get the walk light in all directions. ALL traffic is stopped to permit this. Then for the rest of the cycle Peds have a red walk light and traffic is permitted to move in the normal cycle.

    The city instituted this downtown in a few places and at least the few times I go through those intersections it made a huge difference. Drivers were not presented with a generously timed green light that they couldn't use. Peds were crossing the street without worrying about traffic trying to turn. Things became more predictable and ordered. The change was a programming change and didn't involve the installation of expensive equipment that I am aware of.

    I don't know how you install a greater awareness of courtesy and common sense into people to take care of the intersections with lesser control, but certainly those intersections that have a greater degree of control can be examined to see where the frustrations are really coming from. Perhaps if you can reduce the frustrations in those areas people will approach other intersections with less built up frustration and think more courteously.

    I also have a lovely bridge and a few parcels of swamp land for sale if anyone is interested? <grin>

    D

    Posted 2 years ago #
  46. great idea

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    that intersection really is the worst, dsomers.
    it wasn't so bad years ago, but then that tapas place opened and the inebriated hipsters would linger at the corner smoking, leaving you to wonder if they were waiting to cross.
    now that the market arms is open across the street, there's even more of these aforementioned overgrown soft boys wandering around this intersection. there's also some great new businesses spreading to the west like that knife sharpening shop, which contribute to more foot traffic.

    I believe the leary/market/20th intersection was discussed here as a potential 'all-way cross'. shanana listed the criteria needed to make such a conversion and that intersection fell short (I can't recall if it was lack of walker density or what)

    does the plan for improvements to this intersection on the homepage help pedestrian flow?

    Posted 2 years ago #

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