03/12/2014 at 8:40 pm #61914
We don’t need anymore attorneys or software writers or engineers etc etc etc.
I agree about not needing more attorneys (who in fact are finding a much tougher job market), but software and other engineers are in short enough supply that big companies keep lobbying Congress to make more special visas for them. If we had as many college students majoring in computer science or engineering, percentage-wise, as they do in China or South Korea, we’d be much better off.03/12/2014 at 8:42 pm #61915
Cate, given that economic circumstances vary so much throughout the country, why do you prefer making it a one-size-fits-all federal issue rather than a state one?03/12/2014 at 9:18 pm #61916
br – thanks for the link! I had a half-remembered story in mind, to the effect that looking over the last decade, rents had risen less in Seattle than in many other US cities. I think the rent increase/decrease chart in the story in your link supports this, as it shows that before Seattle rents started rising again in 2011, they dropped during the previous 2 years, rose during the 3 before that, dropped during the 3 before that, rose during the 2 before that, and so forth.03/12/2014 at 9:33 pm #61917
Life is amazingParticipant
I agree with mondo about the youth wage. Hireing kids to work part time with me in my buisness doing paperwork would be more likely at 10 dollars than at 1503/12/2014 at 9:35 pm #61918
Mondoman – Coming from a state that has many well paying industrial jobs, I would hate to see our jobs being diverted to other states with significantly lower wages. From a social justice perspective, minimum wages are significantly lower in the Southern states and poverty rates are significantly higher. A unified minimum wage could help remedy that discrepancy.
Editing to add this link about Southern States, poverty and minimum wages.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/06/maps-of-the-south-bad-place_n_4855191.html03/13/2014 at 1:07 am #61926
Hmm, I would have thought (but don’t know!) that the minimum wage jobs would be ones that couldn’t be easily exported to another state, because they’d be mostly local service industry jobs.
Those are some thought-provoking charts in the HP article — thanks. I hadn’t appreciated the “contiguousness” of the higher-poverty rate states. The minimum-wage map doesn’t seem to be all that well-correlated with poverty rates, though.
I did just read that Mayor Murray’s minimum wage commission will be looking at all kinds of data such as family structure of minimum wage earners, are there other income earners in the household, age of the workers and all kinds of other real numbers, which encourages me.03/13/2014 at 4:47 am #61927
The most compelling argument is that a raise in min wage will save 4 billion in food stamps. I for one am a bit tired of subsidizing low wage employers by basically paying for their employees while they rake in billions. Of course I am also tired of paying for Boeing’s employees also.03/13/2014 at 9:46 am #61930
I am tired of subsidizing extremely wealthy, profitable corporations through the Oil Depletion Allowance and 9 billion other tax loopholes that f*ck over human beings for the benefit of yet more corporate profits.
Bring on a living wage; people spend it, and the economy benefits.03/13/2014 at 7:42 pm #61999
Just a little grist for the mill.
So, $15/hr. What does that look like? Gross of 2,400/mo.(12) = 28,000/yr. Federal taxes, 10% right? So take home of ca. 25,000/yr. Ca. 2100/mo. net. Something like that, I guess. Doable, sure. Just might work if you can count on stable, reliable employment over decades and are unburdened by various and sundry combinations of dependents, esp. ones with special medical and psychological needs, elderly parents, a car, an average monthly rent, medical needs of your own, student loans, a 401K account you contribute to, etc. Finally, vacations, hobbies, and unexpected expenses/emergencies are N/A in your life.
Just a thought experiment, just sayin’ and offered in the same spirit as other modest proposals might be.
Edit: Ah, l’esprit d’escalier struck after hitting submit. Assume no rich relative, no trust fund, no inheritance already enjoyed or to be expected. No financial cavalry ready to ride over the hill and save your hide in a pinch. Yer on yer own cowgirls and -boys! Hang tight and ride the mare of free market laissez-faire!03/14/2014 at 12:23 pm #62052
Don’t forget FICA. You know that SS tax that you pay on your entire income while others only pay on part of theirs? $1200 or more if you buy a bus pass.
What penny said earlier is likely true, that few of you ever really lived on min wage even if you made it at one time. I did.
I didn’t have parents who could give me a dime of help toward college or expenses and due to health reasons they retired and moved to a tiny town with no jobs for me. I had no choice at all other than to take whatever job I could find and live in Seattle on min wage, at the time $2.30. As hard as that was it was still closer to a livable wage than what people are making today. (I lived in a 1 room basement apartment with a hot plate) Oh it was also during the bad recession of the 70s. It took years of looking to find anything better.
This sort of thing is not at all usual even if you don’t know anyone in the same place. To be honest few of the other ballardites I attended school with had any clue what I did after high school. They were all very busy with college that their parents paid for and living in dorms or sororities or paid for apartments. Some had min wage jobs but that just paid for their fun. I was living on what they spent on skiing and beer. So many Americans, then and now, really have no idea that the rest of the world does not live the same as they do.03/14/2014 at 12:37 pm #62056
I think there are likely many people that know what it is like to live on minimum wage, even on this forum.
not everyone who went to college was able to get a job in that field right away. many of us came out of school in a poor economy and were forced to work in various service jobs that were at minimum wage or slightly above.
as you said br, it can take years to find something better, but I’m sure more of us have lived at this level than you and pg think.
and I disagree w/ penny when she says “You cannot live on a minimum wage here. It is impossible, unless you choose not to eat. Even if you are single.”
I am good friends w/ someone who has 3 roommates in a Columbia City rental house and they all have low-paying/ minimum wage jobs. it is possible.
I am in for $15/hr, although I don’t mind if they pay kids less. most kids are kind of dumb and poor workers, so probably don’t deserve as much.03/14/2014 at 1:19 pm #62059
You just cannot discriminate against age. Maybe some kids are flaky, after all they are kids. But how about the kids who are competent and find that work and the goals associated with it are a source of pride and worth– sometimes for the first time in their life. Do you really want to tell them they are not as deserving as the adult who does the same job, or maybe even does the job barely?03/14/2014 at 1:39 pm #62064
“So many Americans, then and now, really have no idea that the rest of the world does not live the same as they do.”
True. Well over a billion people live on less than $1/day, fitting the definition of extreme poverty. Internet? iPhone? Some of these folks just want clean water to drink.
“most kids are kind of dumb and poor workers, so probably don’t deserve as much.”
That brush is way too broad. I’ve fired millenials that seemed to think they should get paid well to pick their nose, do personal emails, and Facebook all day. On the other hand, there’s currently a couple the exact same age who are worth their weight in gold and are exemplary employees. Just wonderful and great at what they do.
Not all young ‘uns are stupid and incompetent by any means.03/14/2014 at 1:49 pm #62065
I know there’s always exceptions, but it is a temporary situation after all.
I am not sure what age is being discussed, but I think if you are 16 – 18, it is unlikely you are supporting yourself. yes, you might want to save for college, but I still contend a kid can learn the value of a dollar making less than the living wage.
that diligence will pay off in spades as they get older.
when I was growing up, you could (and I did) get paid less than minimum only if you were under 16. that child labor built character I tell you.03/14/2014 at 4:51 pm #62070
Got that right Midwest. I do get a charge out of the whining people here with their first world issues like how Safeway has nothing worth eating or the clerk at a retail store was not friendly to someone.
great if they are dumb and don’t work why would you hire them to begin with regardless of age. Unless of course you just are greedy and want to save a buck. Somehow I don’t think it is your humanity showing.
I stick with my statement that few here ever actually lived on Min wage.03/14/2014 at 6:30 pm #62076
Nobody here has ever tried to live on minimum wage. I also said that earlier.
My kid makes a couple of pennies more than minimum wage, and he cannot afford to move out. He wants to, but it isn’t feasible. Take a look at the rent round here, then get back to me about how you can live on the minimum wage.03/14/2014 at 6:34 pm #62078
This thread has degenerated into a petty party of one-upmanshipism: you don’t know poverty, like I know poverty, and that makes me better than you. At this point we might as well start talking about who walked to school the farthest and in the deepest snow.03/14/2014 at 6:36 pm #62079
why would I hire them? good question.
I understand the world is vastly different than it was when I was a teenager.
aren’t there any jobs that still exist for young people in particular?
my brother had a paper route and he would sometimes (weekends in particular) employ me (all of 7 or 8) to pull a heavy wagon up the hill while he delivered the news.
as obsolete as newspapers are, I think most delivery people are full-fledge adults now.
there were many youth-specific jobs when I was growing up. the first ‘real’ job I had (~14 or 15 years old) was part of a ‘youth-corp’ that worked in the town parks creating and maintaining nature trails.
are there any jobs left specifically for kids?03/14/2014 at 6:38 pm #62080
….this was all during the depression of course when I would also have to beg for bread.. oh wait I just saw Edog’s comment.
ruh-roh!03/14/2014 at 6:44 pm #62081
penny, is he averse to having roommates?
that is the only way you can make it work.03/14/2014 at 6:56 pm #62082
To say that nobody here has tried to live on minimum wage is somewhat press,ptive and insulting. There is a quiet underbelly of poverty in our society that we don’t hear or know about. People don’t always say what their struggles are, choosing to hide them instead. I am certain that there are some readers and posters of MB making do with very little. Visit the Ballard Food Bank if you doubt the hidden poverty in Ballard proper.03/14/2014 at 7:51 pm #62110
Cate when did “very few” translate to “nobody?”03/14/2014 at 8:35 pm #62111
Let me clarify. Nobody who is commenting here probably lives on a minimum wage. Is that better? I’m pretty sure that those of us who are trying to scrape together a living on that amount of pay per hour have better things to do than bitch about new Ballard/old Ballard/the homeless/cake shops
If you can tell me different, then I apologize.03/14/2014 at 10:35 pm #62113
BR – It was someone else that said nobody if you read all the way through.
PG – It is my observation that some of the clients I have worked with who are just scraping by on minimum wage, unemployment or disability benefits, are heavy users of the internet. They have no access to other types of entertainment and the internet fills a void. The internet is also a place that allows them to escape their poverty – they can be anyone. I don’t know everyone that posts here of course but I’d be really surprised if their were not several living on a minimum wage budget.03/15/2014 at 8:36 am #62114
I know that, statistically, this is insignificant, but it’s hard to forget when you’re the “statistic”. By the time I was 12, I only got food and a roof over my head from my parents. I had to buy everything else – clothing, school supplies, whatever – for myself. I lost my job, along with another person, when I was 14 because the minimum wage went up. It wasn’t anything close to a 61% increase, more like 5%. Some people will lose jobs and I hope they have food and shelter, like I did. Some jobs will be automated. It may reverse the trend of moving back into the city instead of expanding the suburbs. But we will spiral up instead of down. The more Seattle costs, the more only wealthy people will be able to afford it.
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