Shilshole cycling path on KiroTV last night

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This topic contains 40 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  Salmon Bay 6 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #68242

    SmartsyArtsy
    Participant
    #68253

    Cate
    Participant

    Well that is a one-sided article if I ever read one. They couldn’t speak to anyone at Cascade Bike Club or SDOT for the opposing opinion?

    #68259

    SmartsyArtsy
    Participant

    They did speak to SDOT, on camera and in the article. He said SDOT knows that the current work is a “bandaid”.

    I met VB today ex route to shills hole. Maybe he will fill us in on his thoughts later. I am going to ride down tomorrow to see if the path is wide enough for Trixie.

    #68260

    Salmon Bay
    Participant

    This temporary path is an improvement, the crossing of the tracks isn’t very well planned, but the real Missing Link needs to be completed. The SDOT plan is solid, but the NIMBYs Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel, Ballard Oil and Ballard Chamber of Commerce have been fighting it for years. SDOT has also dropped the ball, failing to anticipate the documents and procedures they need to accomplish in order to actually get it built. The SDOT has a pretty complete documentation on their website, here is the link http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/missinglink.htm.

    #68269

    noob
    Participant

    I think it’s debatable where the temporary path is an improvement. Personally, I think it’s worse than before (which is hard to accomplish). Cars continue to drive on the wrong side. Personally, I’ve started riding on 46th instead.

    #68298

    Salmon Bay
    Participant

    noob, I haven’t seen any cars going the wrong way since the last round of upgrades. They also just put in a new four way stop at Ballard Avenue and 17th, which will make that intersection safer. They really need to put an all way stop at the end of this band aid section, where 45th and Shilshole connect.
    46th is OK, but in the afternoon, I’ve noticed that Pono is drawing a crowd, and that block now fills up in the afteroon with cars parked close to the road.

    #68301

    noob
    Participant

    Okay, but I have. And given that they made the actual railroad crossing itself more dangerous, I can’t say that it is an improvement.

    #68302

    Salmon Bay
    Participant

    Yeah, I don’t like the track crossing, it is too tight. But it is better marked and probably is cutting down on the accidents. It would be hard for a tandem or cargo bike to make the turn. They should have separated the track crossing too, as it feels like a sharp turn into a head on if someone is coming in the other direction.
    I think the whole project is a slight improvement, if only for making the street one way. My wife likes it better, but for me it’s another SDOT fail. I feel safer riding in the traffic lane going eastbound, especially at the east end to transition to the actual BGT.

    #68303

    SmartsyArtsy
    Participant

    My trike barely fits and the turn is barely possible. Not going that way again anytime soon. SDOT apparently thinks the only cycles are 2 wheels pulling nothing

    #68352

    Cate
    Participant

    At 11:00 this morning I was behind a large truck full of sand and gravel that pulled out from one of the businesses on Seaview (not that I am identifying the business but you can figure it out) that turned on to the bike path/road on 45th and drove straight down it heading East. Knocked over a couple of bollards, nearly hit two bicyclists. From my perspective (following on a bike) he didn’t appear confused, it appeared deliberate.

    #68353

    great idea
    Participant

    wait Cate, I’m a bit confused.

    did you mean Shilshole, and not Seaview (which is the road along the marina towards GG)?

    also, aren’t vehicles allowed to still drive East on 45th (but not West)?

    and lastly, I have never seen a truck carrying both sand AND gravel. are you sure about that, and how is it even possible?

    anyway, it sounds like a bad episode, yet does not surprise me as I have been barnstormed by those big concrete trucks along that stretch (by barnstorming, I mean purposeful intent in seeing how close they could get to me).

    I wish someone would film one of these clowns to bring more attention to their antagonistic behavior. if the missing link is ever built, I will thumb my nose at them from a safe distance.

    #68360

    Cate
    Participant

    Hi gi,
    Yes, I mean Shilshole, sorry. Yes, vehicles are still allowed to go east but this truck was to wide to fit on the revised roadway without going into the portion set aside for bicycles hence the knocked down bollards and endangered cyclists. He should have been up on 46th but deliberately turned down 45th.

    Could have been big pieces of sand or small pieces of gravel – you know those little pea sized things used for landscaping and roadwork – that.

    #68375

    VeganBiker
    Participant

    Cate – you are right – ” it appeared deliberate.” I have witnessed a number of truck drivers taking the little bike lane and blacktop part of Shilshole rather than going 15 feet or so further and taking the new route. I know they have enough room because I watched a semi tractor/trailer rig easily go the correct route.

    #68377

    VeganBiker
    Participant

    gi – I have been taking pictures and video down there for the last week and a half and plan to send dome of it into SDOT soon.

    #68379

    noob
    Participant

    Yesterday morning I saw a truck idling on the bike path underneath 15th Ave (just west of the railroad crossing). And yesterday afternoon ~5:15pm as I was biking past on 46th, I saw a car driving west, coming out Shillshole onto 46th. These incidents aren’t exceptions, they are the norm. I send regular emails to SDOT and they really couldn’t care less.

    #68383

    VeganBiker
    Participant

    noob – what email address are you using for SDOT?

    This one might get some positive action:
    walkandbike@seattle.gov

    Maybe!

    #68389

    Salmon Bay
    Participant

    I stopped under the bridge to observe the path and crossing for about 20 minutes last night on my way home. Almost no one used the track crossing as it is designed. Most cross approximately at that location, but tend to go outside of the pylons. Quite a few eastbound bicycle drivers just stayed in the traffic lane until they were under the bridge, then moved over to the bike lanes. I didn’t see any cars or trucks, but I was only there 20 minutes and I’m sure some still do.
    I’m not surprised to hear the comments about the Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel trucks. SBSG is a horrible neighbor for Ballard; they have been fined for polluting the waterway and have been fighting to block the completion of the Burke Gilman Trail for over a decade, while people have been continuously hurt by the Missing Link.

    #68418

    Oly
    Participant

    It’s an Industrial area. The best way to keep bicyclists safe is to bypass the Seaview corridor. SBSG has been at that location since 1907. Not a good neighbor? they are part of our history, our identity along with all the other manufacturing companies. Ballard industrial business’ are trying to protect our neighborhoods foundation from outside interests that think recreation is more important than jobs. The city adopted regulations providing protections to our remaining industrial areas only to ignore these protections and force this BG extension onto our community. SBSG and the maritime business community are not the cause of injuries in the Ballard industrial area. The city and BG political groups that pushed the BG trail onto Shilshole Ave. directing bike traffic into a congested industrial area are the real cause behind the multiple accidents occurring along Shilshole.

    #68450

    VeganBiker
    Participant

    Floyd – The City owns the land that the BGT will be built on. The main cause of the accidents under the bridge is the remaining railroad tracks that were left over from the original railway line that was reclaimed by the City to create the BGT. The Ballard Terminal Railroad started up in 1997 because BNSF found it not profitable to run trains on the 3 mile spur. Currently the only business that is serviced by the train on these rail road tracks is Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel! They use barges for a lot of their sand and gravel but for some reason the Ballard Terminal Railroad wants to keep on running a train on this track just to deliver cement, fly ash, stucco and mortar, go figure?
    Anyway this will all soon be a thing of the past because I predict that next year the City will get the go ahead by the judge to complete the BGT and then we can have a big party and enjoy a safe route for recreation and commuting between Ballard and Fremont.
    FYI, most days now there are over 3000 bike trips taken over the Fremont Bridge per day!

    #68476

    Salmon Bay
    Participant

    Floyd, you spout the rhetoric of the Ballard Business Appellants that are suing to block the fully funded completion of the Burke Gilman Trail on land owned by the citizens of the City of Seattle. I am guessing that you are part of this group. Please note that the accidents that have been occurring along the Missing Link are not at all due to “a congested industrial area” as you assert. They are due to a poor crossing of the existing railroad tracks that would be alleviated by the completion of the Missing Link. But the Ballard Terminal Railroad is not an issue, the plan for the path safely designs around the tracks.

    Bicycle paths like the Burke Gilman Trail, in fact the Burke Gilman Trail itself, safely exist alongside industry both in Seattle and around the world. The Missing Link is not merely a recreational route; it is a major transportation corridor. Myself, and most of the bicycle drivers that have commented on this thread are not recreational drivers, we are citizens of Seattle that use a bicycle for transportation. People use this transportation corridor to get to and from their jobs.

    Fortunately, the inevitable day will soon come when the SDOT will finally get it right, and complete the Missing Link. The Ballard Business Appellants (Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel, Ballard Oil, Ballard Chamber of Commerce, and others, represented by Josh Brower) will have cost the citizens of the City of Seattle millions of dollars and a decade of unsafe infrastructure. The completion of the Missing Link will allow many more of the citizens of Seattle to safely use a bicycle for transportation, and will allow many more people to access Ballard businesses.

    And when the Missing Link is completed, Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel will go about their business just as they have done since 1907. And hopefully we can move on and find a solution to remedy the crossing of the Ballard Bridge (or the Ship Canal) for bicycle drivers, identified by an SDOT poll as the number one crossing the citizens of Seattle would like to have improved.

    #68489

    great idea
    Participant

    personally I don’t care if salmon bay sand and gravel, ballard oil, etc. actually close when the trail is constructed.

    for all the delays, accidents caused, and close-calls just to scare bicyclists, I have no sympathy.

    #68515

    Mondoman
    Participant

    SB, in general I agree when you write:

    And when the Missing Link is completed, Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel will go about their business just as they have done since 1907. And hopefully we can move on and find a solution to remedy the crossing of the Ballard Bridge (or the Ship Canal) for bicycle drivers, identified by an SDOT poll as the number one crossing the citizens of Seattle would like to have improved.

    However, reasonable people can have concerns about the first part, especially if the consequence of being wrong is a big financial hit or closure of the business. As I’ve said before, if it were really a 100% not-going-to-happen issue, the City could just take it off the table by agreeing to reimburse the companies for increased insurance costs or liabilities as a result of the completed Missing Link, since those costs will supposedly never happen.

    #68534

    VeganBiker
    Participant

    Salmon Bay – very well said. Thanks for posting a very clear and informative post.

    #68544

    Oly
    Participant

    The cause of the accidents is due to the forced route of the BG trail. The tracks have been there for decades. The unsafe conditions for bikes was existing, the tracks are smoke and the accidents are fire. The accidents didn’t occur until the BG trail was extended through this industrial area.

    I am not affiliated with any business along the proposed Shilshole route. Unlike the CBC rhetoric offered up by the “I want a bike path no matter what the cost” bike groups.

    When I ride I go around Shilshole as it is unsafe due to it being an industrial area, not because of the missing link.

    Why is there an objection to a cycle track up Leary and across Market? The short term parking along this route is inconsequential.

    Shlisole is not a major bicycle transportation corridor. It is a major industrial transportation corridor. How many bicyclists use Shilshole daily to commute? Why can’t they go around? Why this route? Because it’s flat? an easy commute?

    I have more sympathy for the vitality of Ballard businesses than for a recreational trail.

    The city needs to follow their own industrial zoning rules.

    #68545

    Salmon Bay
    Participant

    Vegan Biker, thank you. Is your avatar your ride? Does it have a spring in the steering tube? I think you passed me this week along the very stretch that is the subject of this very stretched thread.
    Mondoman, nothing is 100%. Just ask Steve Coburn, the owner of California Chrome, or Eric Allen, the campaign manager for Eric Cantor.
    But reasonable people need to be reasonable. This very Burke Gilman Trail has existed for over thirty years in Fremont alongside such businesses as: Lakeside Industrial (asphalt and concrete contractors with a larger industrial tract than Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel), Kvichak Marine(major maritime shipyard – nice aluminum boats!), Alaska Crab Coalition (excellent maritime promotions!), Shell Petroleum, Fleur de Lis Garden Ornaments, Teknotherm (the best in maritime refrigeration) and Brown Bear Car Wash. And these are only the companies that are adjacent to the intersection of 3rd Avenue NW , NW 39th Street and the Burke Gilman Trail. There are literally six continuous miles of industry adjacent to the Burke Gilman Trail from Ballard through the University Village. Industrial and Maritime industries peacefully coexist alongside the entire 27 mile length of the Burke Gilman Trail from Golden Gardens to Marymoor Park, except for the ¾ mile planned Missing Link section in Ballard.
    Reasonable people can reason that the Burke Gilman Trail can reasonably be built along the reasonable route determined by EIGHTEEN YEARS (since 1996!) of: Open Houses, Public Outreach, Hearings, Environmental Impact Statements, SEPA checklists, Traffic Reports, Geotech Reports, Cultural Resources Reports, Conceptual Design Plans, Cost Estimates, Design Proposals, HazMat Reports, No Effect Letters, Litigation, and the unreasonable obstructionist lawsuits brought by the Ballard Business Appellants (Salmon Bay Sand and Gravel, Ballard Oil, Ballard Chamber of Commerce, represented by Josh Brower of Veris Law Group, et alia). When the unreasonable Ballard Business Appellants have exhausted their legal options and the Burke Gilman Tail is finally built along the reasonable route – no, I do not think that the citizens of the City of Seattle should pay anything to the Ballard Business Appellants.

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