An Alternative to Capitalism (which will end homelessness)

The following link takes you to an essay titled: "Home of the Brave?" which I wrote and appeared in the Athenaeum Library of Philosophy:

http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/s...

John Steinsvold

This is a good deal for Ballard. Friedoff and the Compass Center do great work for people that need a break. We in Ballard have to do our part supporting our community,and there's no better group with which to leverage that support than with Friedoff and the Compass Center.

Wow. I'm thoroughly disgusted at my neighbors' response to the homeless and homelessness. You all make me ashamed. Remember that saying "walk a mile in another man's shoes..."?

>>>>The kind of safety most of you take completely for granted.


Actually we worked for it. Only losers take things for granted.

And the hate continues.

You don't have to believe me. Just look around you. What caused this thread in the first place? All the homeless folks camped out in your neighborhood.

Ever occur to you that if these folks were getting proper care in the first place they wouldn't be out there trashing your lawns? What goes around comes around. Mistreat others and it comes back to you.

So why am I in Seattle? Well I used to be out in the suburbs. But I ran afoul of vagrancy laws, which means I can be arrested, fined up to $1,000, jailed up to 90 days, and have my vehicle ticketed or impounded, simply for not having a place to live. Within Seattle city limits is one of the few places in all of Western Washington I know of where I can sleep in my motorhome without fear of arrest and huge fines and a police record and having my motorhome impounded. For me safety counts, legality counts.

Ever occur to you that I might be in Puget Sound for the same reasons you are? Guy gave me a job offer, said I had to move here to Puget Sound if I wanted the job. So I took it.

Not everyone has the same access to help and opportunities that you do. Denying that people go through extremely hard times doesn't make it false.

If I'm a liar, then how do I benefit from it? What's my angle? I don't even live in Ballard. I have nothing directly to gain from anything that happens there. I just thought people would like to hear my story.

How did I find this forum? Well my motorhome was evicted and I was trying to find a safe place to park it. A google search turned up something called the "Safe Parking Program", and that Ballard was proposing a car camp. That camp isn't for me, I won't be moving there. I just don't want to be living in a fishbowl and dealing with all the haters.

I just want a safe place for my motorhome. The kind of safety most of you take completely for granted.

?? What the heck is happening to Ballard...Happy Thanksgiving all

Nice homeless 'plant'' guys! You forgot to mention his sick mother and how he was molested as a kid before becoming a vet with PTSD.

THis is convenient, some 'mode' homeless guy shows up, finds myballard.com, finds a 2 week old thread on the homeless and pitches the perfect tale of woe fit for 'Grapes of Wrath'.

Coincidence? Methinks the local homeless activists have been too active.

If you can't afford Seattle, move dude. I can't afford Queen Anne so you know what, I don't live there or expect others to pay my rent so I can. Plenty of small towns your SSI will go further, you get no sympathy from me if you can't understand that. Nice sob story though.

Wow. It sure is interesting to see all the negativity. Maybe it will help to tell you folks my own story.

I am male, early 40's, white, with a severe hearing impairment and diagnosed with mental illness. I live in a motorhome but not in Ballard (I live in another part of North Seattle). I have no plans to move there, so you all can feel safe from me. I live on disability, so I suppose that makes me a freeloader. That's my only income. I tried real hard in my 30's to get a job and keep a job, but mental illness made that impossible. I was in and out of homelessness all through my 30's. After more than 10 years of trying, with very little help, I finally gave up on jobs as a permanent way out of homelessness. I was never able to make it work for me, for whatever reason. Worker protections for unskilled workers are nil in this country. I've never had a job paying a living wage--I tried, many times to get such a job. Used to deliver pizzas for a living. Don't have a car anymore so I can't do that now. Every boss I ever worked for has at one time or another said I was the best and hardest working employee they had. Didn't save me from homelessness over a dozen times or getting fired.
I guess mental illness had something to do with that--periodic severe clinical depression, background of childhood mental abuse, stress disorder, something called Avoidant Personality Disorder which means I am highly reclusive as humans to me appear to be full of hate so I stay away. I get a lot of that as a homeless person.

Took me years to quality for SSDI, $583 a month. Average rent for an apartment in Seattle is almost twice that ($1079). Try to find a place to live on that, and pay for food and utilities. Without the SSDI I'd be dead right now. Maybe you folks consider that no loss.

Took me 4 years to save up for the motorhome--it was my only way of getting out of living in a nonfunctional car. I was a college student when the car broke. Homeless the entire time I was in college. Car needed new engine. Could not get the money for it. Begged the school and they told me I was already getting all the money and all the loans I was legally allowed. Wouldn't even increase the loan amount so I could fix the car and stay in school. I remember they sent me a form stating they had met 100% of my financial need. Since I was homeless the entire six months I was in college, I disagree.

Damaged my back and my toes from having to push the car by hand every three days to comply with Washington State's parking laws.

It's been almost impossible to get any kind of help. I was on 5 different waiting lists for subsidized housing. Thrown off them all. The SSDI is the only help I get.

I don't do drugs, I don't drink, I don't beg, I don't dress in dirty rags. I'm not noisy. I'm not a thief. I don't litter. You would not know I was homeless to see me. I'm one of the hidden homeless as my safety and the safety of my motorhome depends on it. There is tremendous discrimination against the homeless. I've been the victim of hate crimes multiple times. Multiple counts of vandalism against my old car that I don't have anymore--really hard for a low income person to recover from.

I am sorry about all the folks who are peeing on your lawns and throwing broken bottles and trash and syringes onto your lawns--but I am not these folks. I always keep the area around my motorhome clean and trash-free. Not that it gets me any better treatment from anyone around me.

And life's gotten a lot harder in recent years. Seattle just this year put up "No Parking 2-5am" signs on all the nearby streets in my area--and those were the only public streets I had been able to park on without getting harassed by police and by neighbors lying to police to get rid of me. I have to sleep somewhere. I have to park overnight somewhere. I exist. I can't unexist. Not without suiciding. And I have thought about it, many times.

I don't have a safe place for my motorhome anymore. And that is terrifying for me.

Everything I own is under threat right now. I have no safe place to park my motorhome. I have people threatening to impound my motorhome--everything I sacrificed years of my life for to acquire would be gone in 15 minutes work by someone who has never been homeless or disabled or even poor.

I don't want handouts. All I want is a safe place for my motorhome. A place to be, where I don't have to worry anymore about police ticketing me even when I'm legally parked, don't have to worry anymore about coming back from an errand to find my motorhome had been towed away.

I am saving up money to buy land that I can put my motorhome on. One of those $500 down, $200 a month deals in a rural location. But I can be ticketed at any time, whether or not I am legally parked--police don't care, judges don't care, neighbors don't care. I don't make noise, I live alone, I am very reclusive as people frankly terrify me. I have been threatened so many times, it's hard at times simply not suiciding.

Every ticket I get cuts into my savings and makes it that much harder to save up for that land to get out of here. And an impound, which if I'm parked on private land (such as a parking lot), can happen at any time without notice and that's $400+ to get my motorhome back
. Have that happen a few times a year and my ability to save up anything at all is completely destroyed. And the cops and the judges and the politicians don't care--I'm just unwanted vermin to them and to the non-homeless.

Most of us homeless deserve better, frankly. There's a lot of us who are senior citizens, who are disabled, a lot of blue collar people who worked hard all their lives and got downsized. Many of us are decent people. But us decent ones tend to be hidden because our safety depends on it. We get fired if our bosses find out we're homeless--and it doesn't matter how good a job we were doing. I had it happen. Saw it happen to others. Prejudice is real. Hate crimes against the homeless is real--go look it up on youtube or google if you don't believe me.

And for us, cops aren't our protectors, they're the people we are the most in need of protection from.

We're not all junkies and druggies and beggars trashing other people's places. Though the most visible ones are. But I get lumped in with them, just the same.

I was threatened just today with the loss of my motorhome--the guy said if he saw my motorhome there again he's towing it. And it's legal for him to do it, and I have no other place to go and I feel so powerless and helpless. My hands are shaking with fear right now thinking about that guy wanting to take the only shelter I have, the one and only place I can call my own, a place I earned through 4 years of hard sacrifice and savings.

There's going to be people saying everything I said here is a lie. There's going to be people saying "suicide? Good--do it!". Attitudes like that have a lot to do with why my living situation is the way it is.

I didn't choose to be homeless. I hate it. I have tried every way out I can think of. Nothing works for me and all I get from people is hate and "get a job, you bum!"

Why is it that people who talk the most about property rights seem to have the least respect for my own property?

So tired of feeling persecuted all the time. Tired of the meanness and the punitive measures people take. I never wanted this kind of life.

I agree Spiznat, it won't cut the number of homeless, it'll just make us feel all warm and fuzzy and that's what's important.

I think it's great, personally. it will not cut down on the homeless problem in Ballard, but it's a good thing to do.

Wowie Zowie, 124 posts....I am all for helping my felow man, but Ballard is a small community,and I am not sure it is capable to being able to absorb the 40-60 homeless folks who will no doubt need incredible support and other...we are a small community, and quite honestly it is tiring to drive to work and see folks sleeping in store doorways on Market Street, or urinating on walls down Old Ballard ave, and this is all at 8:30am. Then there are the chronic alcoholics who keep to 17th and NW Market by the 7/11. They drink from brown paper bags, and sit together over by the Barbershop and get totally wasted, and proceed to wander up and down the street, pausing to check in their stuff at thd market st. storage...what influence and good will it do yo add chronicalloy homeless people, give them a roof over their heads and place them in this very small community?? We obviously can't deal with the homeless folks we have, and for some reason Ballard is becoming a popular place to be homeless....main reason, they get away with all the bad behaviors...

And god forbid they should have to give up their pets! I mean, they're getting free housing, why should they make any sacrifices?

Job training? They're bums, the last thing they can do is go a job every day and work hard, it would destroy their self esteem.

I am all for Compass Center. I only hope they are considering the services that need to be in place to help homeless people...will they have access to services ? Or are they going to be left to fend for themselves on the streets of Ballard..? Social services, job training, access to free transportation and increased emergency response ( including police and fire ) will all be needed to help these new neighbors...I hope they are not just going to dump these needy folks.

Why don't we put a shelter in Bellevue?

Wow, this is truly disgusting. In case you hadn't heard, there is a recession going on and many working people are losing their jobs and homes. There are good people out there who NEVER thought they would be in this situation but now may need these services. The scenarios are endless. Amy pointed out quite clearly that this would be a place for single homeless women to reside on a transitional basis (12-24 months) with counseling and support. She's not talking about the chronically homeless or violent offenders. As for the people who jumped to the conclusion that these women would be prostituting themselves, may you someday experience similar hatred and defamation. With the volatile economy and skyrocketing health costs, we might want to remember that we are all vulnerable. Believe me when I say that some of you nattering on about your home values may be one diagnosis away from this shelter.

@babba - you don't want the homeless on the streets, but you don't want to build a shelter for them..

I think it's a great idea. By staying in-city residents may be able to keep jobs or connections they have, easily access other services, and better their situation. My only question is whether the facility will allow pets - I certainly hope so as shelters are overflowing with surrendered pets due to home loss (and studies have shown that women with pets may be reluctant to leave abusive situations because they fear for their animals). barefoot, count me in for the committee.

Ballard Bar Worker is right...and if you've ever worked in a bar or nightclub, you'd agree.

tony ISN'T angry. to the point maybe, but not angry.

Doug the Mug:

"Are there no gaels? Are there no workhouses"?
Ebenezer Scrooge: Dickens A Christmas Carol.

Dear Tony,

You make assumptions and seem a very angry person at large. You assume that I am a "girl". I have said nothing regarding my gender. I'm not even a bartender, I simply said that I was a bar worker.

But the real issue here is that drunken homeless in Ballard are not any different than the drunken patrons of a bar. These patrons roam the streets , creating hazards, causing property damage to local businesses and requiring tax-funded police calls. Which I find the homeless of Ballard generally not guilty of at all.

My original question was, how are the homeless "drunks and druggies" as you called them, different and the new patrons of our ever changing Ballard different? Why are is it more acceptable to be a drunk bar patron than a homeless person?

'Experience' homelessness? Looking down Market St it looks more like 'engaging' in homelessness and with great enthusiasm. But good luck with the bag ladies, once they start charging for bags they'll be millionaires!

Its no secret that drunk 20 year olds the world over can be and often are chrulish. try this...round up 20 or so of your homeless buddies and have them over to your bar,give them booze for three or four hours and see what you get!
ballard bar girl, you are part of the problem. perhaps you should seek another line of work at salmon bay or senor moose or some food only spot.

good luck!

They are affluent and let everyone know it. And they do expect us to pay for their addiction and behavior. I have had to do major repair to my car twice now from drunk driver hit and runs. And yes, I DO know that they were drunk driver hit and runs...There were witnesses, but these people were never caught. I have to foot the bill to make my car whole again.

the 20-somethings dont expect you and me to pay for their addictions.

how do you know they are affluent? did you take a poll?

just becaue people use their own hard earned money doesnt make them affluent.

Kelli..wherever you are; thanks for the link.

To some of you less tolerant folk living in ballard, I ask you this...

How are these so called "chronic drunks" any worse than the "chronic drunks" that patronize the bars on Ballard Avenue, like the one's I work in?

The homeless individuals that I see and talk to in Ballard have been nothing but nice to me and I have never felt worried or unsafe. Unlike with the affluent 20-somethings that I have to physically remove from my bars all the time....

"doesn’t it say something to that these folks WANT to live in a tent rather than a shelter infested with bed bugs and crime that the city puts a blind eye to?"

Yes, it says they too don't like to live near bums.

Judging from the beer bottles and cans, I think the homeless have already been using that building for parties and functions.

You've got to walk that lonesome valley...

jm, are you sure that wasn't one of the art pieces?

The Ballard Art Walk is enhanced with burned guys urinating on the on the sidewalk as you pass by. Sometimes they even stand up to do it.

Celebrate DIVERSHITTY

"where everyone is rich and white"

Love it! People in lilly-white Ballard talking about how important 'diversity' is to their lives.

"If you don’t like poor people around my in-laws have a house for sale in Wisconsin in a small town where everyone is rich and white."

========

Sounds awesome! How do I find out more info about it?

tortue, let me get this straight: the homeless are trashing the former bowling alley, so the best solution is to let the homeless take it over?

What's wrong with that picture?

And why should we expand it in Ballard?

Funny? We at BPNWJFSHAFSJ recently teamed up with BLISS (Ballard Lesbians in SubaruS) to demand that the city of Seattle ban all humor. We found great support from the BLISS community. In fact, we are hoping to expand the demand to cover any public displays of ridicule, irony, satire as well as public displays of smiles directed to our oppressed Sisters in Subarus.

I'm sorry to read that you feel that way, babba. 20 years is a long time to hang in there.

BPNWJFSHAFSJ you funny!!!

C'mon Kim, it was a stupid joke. Just like the one I received from swishy. But thanks for sounding the alarm. I always appreciate it.

They alraedy ARE all over the bowling alley. Do the homeless-boosters ever go take a LOOK around this neighborhood? I've lived in Ballard for over 20 years, and I am utterly disgusted at what I see every day now. Go take a walk for a few blocks around Market St. & 15th. On a recent day, I encountered no less than a dozen different groups and individuals, laying around on the sidewalks, drinking, fighting with each other, hassling passers-by for money, and just hanging out. Used to be, you would see the occasional drunk in an alley or sleeping it off in the bushes. Now, it's like the homless population has exploded so much they've run out of places for them to lay around and drink -- they're lined up on the sidwalks. I've had it. I'm looking forward to moving away -- if I can ever sell my house, which is probably doubtful now.

Ballard sucks now. Pretentious *holes in million dollar condos and drunks passed out on the sidewalk out front. Some neighborhood.

The bowling alley is empty and has been for quite awhile. It has been accumulating a lot of garbage around it and the owners do nothing about it. The bag of used syringes that one of the RV's dropped off in the parking lot was real cute, too.

Clearly, we cannot tarnish this historic landmark by perhaps using it to help out the homeless. Instead, lets put a shelter on a residential street where it makes so much more sense.

@ian

No, I couldn't read through all the whining.

Why not put them in the bowling alley? Uhhh, maybe because, like your house, it's private property? Or don't we respect that anymore in the People's Republic of Ballard?

Why not put the homeless shelter in the old bowling alley? I mean, its parking lot is already used by the gas guzzling 1970s era environment-non-friendly RV/campers who pour out poopwater every morning.

jm, I think the plan is that with this project, tent city, car camps and whatever else Ballard's sucker/guilt crowd can dream up, Ballard will be the dumping crowd for the entire West Coast homeless community. Then we all get to enjoy the pleasures of being told to fu*k off on 15th Ave.; happened to me when I stopped to let one of these fine citizens cross the street this summer. My kids had the pleasure of learning some new bum-expletives. I point out these fine citizens as a good reason for my kids to study hard.

Seems like we need round up the drunks and ship them someplace else. The working people don't owe these slackers anything. Too many people have marched, worked, built, fought and died for anyone to be sitting around drunk. When you have a drunk woman crossing against the light in the middle of 15th NW at 3:30PM in the afternoon, it's hard to empathize as she gives you the finger and screams F**K YOU! Get rid of them.

>>how many homeless could be housed in the condos that have infested our community? <<

Ballardog, what do you propose MaryW should do as mayor to raise the money to buy all the condos to house the homeless as she proposes? Where does the libertarian in you think those millions should come from?

Maybe you should run for mayor MaryW. I'd vote for you, even though you are a little outside of my libertarian idealogies you have sincere principled compassion. Our current mayor could use some of that. Now that his budget is short he has decided to make some cuts and guess what is at the top of his list? Yep, homeless shelters and youth violence programs. Oh, I forgot to mention he wants to raise city parking rates. What a jerk.

Did Clarke write that before or after he defended Saddam?

I believe one final quote from Ramsey Clark's UDHR address is in order here, in light of Ballard's homeless population:

...without a passionate commitment by the people of the United States [Ballard]...to stop their own governments from violating those definitions of human rights, hold them accountable for their acts and to prevent their own media from seducing them into acceptance or complacency, there will be no protection for the poor and powerless and no correspondence between the words of [the] rich and powerful ...and their deeds. [id]

boardbrown--

first you sound like you live in harmony w/the homeless and their faults but once someone calls you one it, you turn all dr jekyll and mr hyde on them. wow! your a real piece.

celeste--

once you find condoms, bottles and other fun toys in your yard, maybe you will re read what you have posted here and rethink you position. if you build it, they will come and bring their friends....

At one time our country was a signatory to the universal declaration of human rights. In fact, it was Elenor Roosevelt that helped form and present the declaration in 1948. While it may not be (currently) binding (as, apparently neither is the Geneva Convention), its articles are worthy at least of Ballard ideals, especially at this time with the glittering, yet somehow... shoddy, condos towering around us.

Here's the link for any of you who would like to read it in full: http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

And here is an excerpt by Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General on the US position:
"The United States government pays lip service to the Declaration, but its courts have consistently refused to enforce its provisions, reasoning it is not a legally binding treaty, or contract, but only a declaration. This ignores the fact that international law recognizes the provisions of the Declaration as being incorporated into customary international law which is binding on all nations." http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Human_Rights/...

"Read the universal declaration of human rights."

Actually, the US constitution is the law of this land.

We at BPNWJFSHAFSJ would like to commend MaryW for her brilliant idea to house the homeless in condos and townhouses that have infested Ballard. She is right now sending us her bank details so we can start raising the millions required to buy these properties.

However, BPNWJFSHAFSJ is concerned that the homeless may never have experienced Italian marble floors and granite countertops. We are also working on a plan to educate the homeless to the benefits of regular waxing for hard wood floors.

BPNWJFSHAFSJ congratulates MaryW for showing ' heart, compassion and care' for the homeless community, while simultaneously spitting venom, anger and disgust at condo and town house owners as well as anyone perceived to be a 'yuppie'.

We at BPNWJFSHAFSJ believe that only by showing total intolerance to some people, can we truly show tolerance to all.

MaryW, since our treasurer has left, BPNWJFSHAFSJ would love to offer you a job (unpaid of course).

Just a thought to ponder--how many homeless could be housed in the condos that have infested our community? How many new shelters and low/affordable housing units could have been built with the subsidy money tossed to developers who have razed our community? How many more could be built with just the money withheld from the community through tax cuts, tax loopholes of the rich?

I watched last night as the news flashed on the alley our future president once slept in as a homeless man. A little food for thought, people. Read the universal declaration of human rights. Every human being deserves the basic human rights--shelter, food, medical care. Reading some of these posts and looking at the shallow opulance rising around us, makes me deeply ashamed at what Ballard is becoming.

Count me in, BarefootInBallard. I'll be there, too, welcoming--with pride--the new Compass Center and its residents. I prefer to live in a community with heart, compassion and care.

MaryW

I for one plan on seeing how I can volunteer to help!
Glad to see there is still some compassion for humans in the world. It starts at home. They need a home.

OK Swishy, but it'll cost you a black eye and a split lip.

I agree BB! Can you let us know where you live so I can stop by and take a neighborly dump on your lawn? It'll give you a great story! Oh, and if the kids are home let me cuss and swear at them and then flash my tickle tackle at them?

Holly cow! You guys have been busy w/ this one.

I'm always amazed and slightly baffled why folks get so worked up over this topic. Is it really so bad to some homeless folks in your neighborhood?

I've had my fair share of close interaction with them throughout my entire life...both in DC and Seattle. I've been cussed at, I've had cars broken into, I've gotten pee splatter on my pants, I've picked up human poop from the alley outside my gate. Hell, I've even had to hold a few down on the sidewalk till the cops arrive.
But at the end of the day I have no scars, no broken bones, no missing kids, and no tanking property values. Just fun stories to share with my friends.

I really think you all are making too much of this.

76 posts and growing. I should have gone with my gut instinct and predicted 100. Gonna be a record breaker.

BPNWJFSHAFSJ,
Yeah...no.

We at BPNWJFSHAFSJ and its various committees, subcommittees and associations denounce your attacks on the mentally ill. The term 'crazy' is a shameless attack on those who suffer from an inability to bathe or stop using drugs without state intervention. It is typical of the narrow-minded types of people who believe that anyone who urinates in public is somehow being anti-social when in fact, public urination is the best form of political attack against the free market.

So please, the next time you have to dodge around someone peeing on a public street, he is not a 'crazy' person; he is in fact, making a political statement worthy of our Che Guevara t-shirts.

BPNWJFSHAFSJ,
You are just a 'little' crazy right?

Right on Barefoot, all attempts to help the homeless should be shamelessly political. If we can’t blame capitalism for every individuals' failures who can we blame?

We at Ballard’s Pacific Northwest Peace, Justice, Freedom, Solidarity and Happiness Alliance for Social Justice (BPNWJFSHAFSJ) and its various committees, subcommittees and associations believe that the home-deprived should be gathered up into large pyramids to form human billboards along Market Street, with signs that denounce capitalism and welcome Warren Buffet’s charge to destroy the market economy.

Right on Barefoot, all attempts to help the homeless should be shamelessly political. If we can’t blame capitalism for every individuals' failures who can we blame?

We at Ballard’s Pacific Northwest Peace, Justice, Freedom, Solidarity and Happiness Alliance for Social Justice (BPNWJFSHAFSJ) and its various committees, subcommittees and associations believe that the home-deprived should be gathered up into large pyramids to form human billboards along Market Street, with signs that denounce capitalism and welcome Warren Buffet’s charge to destroy the market economy.

As a member of Ballard’s Pacific Northwest Peace, Justice, Freedom, Solidarity and Happiness Alliance for Social Justice (BPNWJFSHAFSJ), I urge my Ballard neighbors to open their homes and gardens to the home-deprived. Let our gardens be one with them in protest against capitalism!

With 3 full time members, BPNWJFSHAFSJ feels it fully represents the views of all of Ballard and anyone who disagrees with us is clearly a fascist lackey in league with Mayor McNickels and his condo overlords.

Furthermore, BPNWJFSHAFSJ hopes some of the $800 billion wasted on Wall Street can be used to train the new homeless to go out and find new things for social justice fighters to fight for and help create new pithy bumper stickers. We at BPNWJFSHAFSJ suspect their may be a social justice workers deficit about to strike America as we have now elected elect our first black president. We must find new source of social injustice to drill immediately.

Ryan,
This effort is totally transparent.
What can't or don't you want to see?
Oh! The homeless in YOUR neighborhood.
Got it. Crystal clear.

@Nina

Did you read post #60? She stated pretty clearly that she's a homeowner in Ballard..

Doug the Mug,
It's both dear. It IS political and it should be. On the other hand, doesn't it say something to that these folks WANT to live in a tent rather than a shelter infested with bed bugs and crime that the city puts a blind eye to?
More effort is needed indeed.

>>>The idea of being visible is to bring attention to the homeless problem.

Well, thanks for admitting it was a political stunt, not an effort to actually "end homelessness as we know it".

Celeste,

Do you live in Ballard or just here to rant?

No, but we do deserve transparency in the process for a public initiative.

I support this.

As a 15 year resident of Ballard I have seen the homeless population grow. No doubt the closing of services downtown..a short bus ride to Ballard has added to it.

I have supported the tent cities that have come and gone (without incident) from various church parking lots. The idea of being visible is to bring attention to the homeless problem.

There are a significant amount of homeless and not enough beds for them, thank your Mayor.

These Ladies are in treatment with the compass center, the last thing they want or need is trouble or angry neighbors. Compassion is needed.

I am disheartened to read these posts. Be kind to those who have less than you, should you not become one of them.

Tony, Will & Doug the Mug, put on your big girl panties and deal with it.

Mary W., thank you.

I'll be bringing housewarming gifts to these Ladies first chance I get. Who's with me?

I am lucky enough to have the family that I have. What if I was truly all alone without that family support network? Too bad so sad?

Even responsible people need to catch a break. And are we the best judges of who is responsible enough to be deserving of one?

No Celeste, it wasn't luck that saved you. It was a caring, loving and responsible family. Luck had nothing to do with it. Being responsible isn't something that lands on your head like a lucky charm.

also, please forgive my foolish lack of editing. Oof.

Several years ago, I had to rely heavily on public assistance in order to leave an abusive relationship to protect my 2 year old son. While I wasn't homeless, that was only due to the support that I had from family and friends. In other words, luck. Not everyone is as fortunate as I have been, and while I am definitely concerned with the negative impacts of building a homeless or low income housing project just blocks from my house, I would like to find a way to give others a bit of the luck that helped me turn my incredibly sucky life around.

I heard of this story today on KUOW and Tony's intolerant comment was quoted. And while I will admit that my immediate reaction to this new development in our area, I was so saddened by the stupidity with which our concerns are voiced. I'm a homeowner in Ballard. I'm raising my son here, and I feel safe enough in my neighborhood that he's a veritable free range child. And I have a vested interest in keeping Ballard and her surrounding areas this way. But I hope that we as concerned neighbors can be intelligent enough to realize that if we meet these folks with hostility and suspicion, the only folks that will want to live there are the ones that don't give a shit about our neighborhood to begin with. Then we really will be stuck with the drunks and the druggies that Tony so ignorantly used to classify ALL homeless folks in need of assistance. If we come together as neighbors and allow other people to be part of our network if they demonstrate a desire to do so, then we'll probably get some good neighbors out of the deal. Or we can bitch and moan like idiots and make problems for ourselves when we could have helped shaped our community instead.

AMS, because the bum activists want to make a political statement. Actually helping the homeless would put them out of work and give them nothing to be angry about.

How about work farms? Or is making people work to provide for themselves politically incorrect?

To look at this from a different perspective…As someone w/ experience in fundraising and non profit work, the decision to put this development in the middle of Ballard doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to me.

If I were a donor to the Compass Center (or if my United Way donation was being used to purchase this property, I’m not sure of the specifics of how these two organizations worked together on this) I would prefer to see this development built somewhere further from the city where costs were cheaper. That way they could use the money they save to better their treatment/counseling options.

I would think the donors would prefer their money go towards building a larger, better facility w/ more, and better trained doctors and counselors, then a facility in a prime real estate location.

I find it hard to believe that the cost of providing residents w/ transportation to the city when necessary, would be enough to justify the cost of building the facility in the city…After all there are plenty of two income families that have to live outside the city and take the bus to work everyday because the cost of city living is too high, why should the compass center approach their budgeting any differently?

Thanks for the NY Times post. Interesting, but they don't really explain how the study was conducted. It would be great to see the actual study, and how they normalized their data for general rise of housing prices in the area.

My guess is this is like all real estate, it really depends on each neighborhood and the site that is developed.

@ Rome --
I have no reservations about helping, and Seattle does a very good job at helping the homeless that are truly looking for help. I'm not a homeowner in the area, just a renter. My concerns come from a more "safety" issue than anything else. Am I going to have to wade through aggressive panhandlers and truents (who aren't accepted to the home, but hang out near it) just to go mail a letter at the post office? Am I going to have to worry about my significant other's safety if she's walking back from the coffee shop after the sun's gone down?

Sure, lumping all homelessness into one big group of ruthless aducters isn't right. But sometimes with the good comes the bad... who's to say who might be hanging out near the grounds of this place? No one can say now, bc it's not there. But there's always that "what if". There are people who can't help being homeless... there are the ones who truly want to better themselves and can't get on their feet.... and there are also the ones who are "chronically" homeless for a reason... schizophrenia, drug use, insanity, etc etc. I don't necessarily want to be worried for my safety in my own neighborhood if one or two of these guys get attracted to the area, but isn't invited into the development.

I am really glad and happy that these people are going to be given a chance to better their lives. I just don't want to have an influx of the bad coming with it, tearing up the safety I, and others (especially parents of small children) might feel walking down the road at night to grab a bite to eat.

I love it! People who work hard, study hard, pay taxes, work hard to keep their homes and property in good shape and raise the value of them (and everyone else's homes in the neighborhood) and contribute to society; these folks are greedy.

Those who use drugs, refuse to work hard, suck off the state, raise crime and lower the value of everything around; these fine folks are 'generous'.

And , yes Michael, we have homeless in Ballard. Ever notice how if you start feeding pigeons you get a pigeon problem? Apparently some people in Ballard want every kind of wing ding homeless facility to be placed here to help with their white guilt.

Now I have no problem with this facility, especially since I live no where near it. It's important to help the weak, but could we at least get them to send the rest of us 'thank you' cards every Christmas?

Awesome! I own a condo near there and this brings volunteer opportunities closer to home. If you don't think we have homeless here already, you don't have your eyes open.

The web site below discussing homeless housing and property values.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/opinion/07fri...

Kelli, nice link regarding the facts about mental illness. As John Adams said,
"Abuse of words has been the great instrument of sophistry and chicanery, of party, faction, and division of society."

It is amazing at the the lack of compassion.
If we continue to think only of self, then we will have lost the ability ever to stay unitied as a community. As Benjamin Franklin said, "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."

Kelli, nice link regarding the facts about mental illness. As John Adams said,
"Abuse of words has been the great instrument of sophistry and chicanery, of party, faction, and division of society."

It is amazing at the the lack of compassion.
If we continue to think only of self, then we will have lost the ability ever to stay unitied as a community. As Benjamin Franklin said, "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."

I don't know how these places work. Is there some sort of screening process, interview process, etc etc as to who they let live here? Are there some sort of qualifications as a homeless person that you have to meet? I imagine they wouldn't let in just ANYbody. Is there a way to determine if it's someone who genuinely is trying to turn their lives around compared to someone who's putting up a front and just wants to take advantage of the system?

what Dr d&d said too...

The number one factor influencing the price of homes in a five block radius of this spot is the same reason it's a good place for low income housing: LOCATION.

People want to live here because it's close to everything, and wether or not this project is there is not going to change that.

If some of you folks don't care about helping the homeless, fine but the Compass Center is free to do what they want with their property, right?

With the lending collapse, and the bulk of ARM loans going to reset in the next 1-2 years, get ready to watch your home values drop 30-45%. The decline has started already. San Diego, LA, and parts of Florida are in a mess, and we will follow. Anyone see the jobless rate? Foreclosure rates? Ya, the storm is building, and this building will probably be a welcome addition for those who don't have a fallback. Not just the chronics, but the collateral damage as they say. The 700b bailout was a joke. Throwing money at the problem will not solve it. It feels safe and easy to worry about this tiny fish here, but sometime you are going to look back and see that big old wave building. It is not going to be pretty.

Is the new center going to look like all the condos around it? That's the pressing question.

People just want to protect what is most likely the largest investment they will ever make, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And I'd still love to see the proof that these types of development do not deflate the housing values in say, a 5 block radius.

I think what people would like to see is what decisions or factors influenced this site as the choice, and what other sites were considered. That is the REAL issue.

But we live in a free market economy, and that means we have the right and privilege to protect our home values, or try to increase them. (As long as there is a market for townhomes, people will build them. Sad truth, I hate them too.)

Doug, chill. I was simply saying that no matter what goes in that spot (housing for the homeless, condo, town home, etc) someone's gonna bitch about it. And I bet a lot of the people who would freak out if a townhouse was built are the same folks that are freaking out cuz of this place.

The prices for property in Ballard have inflated SO much in the last few years that I doubt this place will hurt anyones value to where they'll lose money.

And I AM a homeowner. So, please don't screw me.

I am going to wager this one hits at least 75 posts.

Oh boy....this is a hot one.

>>Don’t worry, you’ll be able to sell your house for a bundle more that you bought it for.

And if we don't, you'll cover us right?

OK Candice, I won't worry about my property's value, if you lower my property taxes by 50%.

How about it? Oh that's right, scr*w home owners.

I have no problems with condos, they don't drive the values of our homes down.

Rick Friendhoff, The Compass Center's Executive Director, told me construction is contingent on funding. It's not expected to break ground until Fall of 2010. Compass still has to apply for permits on the construction You can hear the full interview on KUOW's The Conversation at 1 pm today (Friday Nov.7) during the 1 pm hour. It will be archived at kuow.org after the live broadcast.

To those who are complaining about your property values being lowered... are you the same folks who bitch when a condo's being put in?

Instead of focusing on your property value, which is insanly high anyway, maybe you should be more supportive of someone trying to do something good by getting some homeless off the street. At least this way they might go on to become "unhomeless".

Don't worry, you'll be able to sell your house for a bundle more that you bought it for.

Tony,

This website may help dispel some common myths: http://www.stopstigma.samhsa.gov/topic/facts.aspx

Notably, the source states:
“Although studies suggest a link between mental illnesses and violence, the contribution of people with mental illnesses to overall rates of violence is small,” and further, “the magnitude of the relationship is greatly exaggerated in the minds of the general population (Institute of Medicine, 2006).

Thanks for the information Amy! As I said earlier, welcome to the neighborhood.

Way to go Mary and Grubby! its good to see some IMBYS step forward for once.

you both forgot to post your address and directions .

I agree with Mary. I'm appalled at people who do what they like with their own private property. Infestation is a perfect word, let's compare these so-called people with insects.

Like Mary, I will be leaving my door unlocked tonight, so please, come on by and make yourself at home and please remember to leave the toilet seat down.

I have lived in Ballard off and on since the fifties, most recently for the past six years. I've been appalled at the condo/townhouse infestation here and the attitude of the "flippers" who now swarm our community. I'm proud that Compass Center will have a transitional home here so that we, as a community, can be a part of the solution, rather than the problem. That we have an opportunity to help, rather than push aside, and to show compassion to the most vulnerable segments of our population--the defenseless and oppressed. We can choose to make our Ballard community an example for other communities to follow.

>>what is with the term “chronic” in regard to homelessness

It means they are weak. We should help the weak.

Amy at Compass...who will be buying their cigarettes and drugs?
What is your smoking policy at compass?

thanks!

Housing levy....great, we get to pay for the city to help lower our property values. This is brilliant. Good luck building your slum.

Sex for money??! Please!

The tone of some of the posters on this thread is totally rude. We live in a city, there are going to be all kinds of people living around you, get used to it.

Many women are homeless because they are fleeing an abusive relationship, to see them as a threat is is the same fear-based BS the election showed MOST of us are tired of.

If you don't like poor people around my in-laws have a house for sale in Wisconsin in a small town where everyone is rich and white.

Build it, and they will come. Oh yes.

>>>Fewer overpriced townhomes and more supportive housing is the way to go

I agree Amy, I wish you luck in your effort to drive down home values in Ballard! They are crazy!

I can still remember the FIRST time I saw a homeless person in Ballard- in 1989, in front of Washington Mutual. (and I am a 4th generation Ballardite, for the record.) We didn't HAVE homeless people here...there were some bum-y guys down on Ballard Avenue, but they had homes in the low-rent single-room occupancy buildings on Ballard Avenue, and they had jobs, mainly in the mills before those left.

I for one amnot so thrilled about the homeless women having sex for money at the Bergen Place Park or Marvin Gardens, either. Economic diversity, hah! Why not move this center of economic "diversity" to Magnolia or Laurelhurst, of Innis Arden, or Mercer Island? Bellevue gives their homeless a one-way bus ticket to Seattle.

I agree with the person about San Francisco- twenty years ago SF was a nice town. Today, even the really high rent areas and especially Union Square have @ 1 homeless person every 4 feet agressively panhandling,and the violent crimes, especially robbery and mugging are way up.

Ballard USED to be a neighborhood of working people, from blue collar to upscale (Sunset Hill) where people knew each other and looked out for each other. (and there were beat cops on Ballard Avenue.)

I say put the homeless shelter in the Mayor's back yard!

amy -

I have no doubt your programs are good. However, I am glad my house is in Phinney and not there. I can't imagine other homeowners are all that happy about it. That's what homeowners want, high housing prices in their neighborhood! Has your organization really done scientific studies on the economic impact of your programs in the neighborhoods they reside in?

amy--

that's not too comforting considering the men it will attract. just like animals in heat!

I am an employee of the Compass Center and a resident of Ballard for 10 plus years. We never portrayed it as anything other than it is, a place for single homeless women to reside on a transitional basis (12 -24 months) with counseling and support. We will demolish what is there now and build a new structure where people experiencing homelessness will reside and receive services. If any of you have any question as to how we help people develop community or what our projects do to property values, I encourage you to call us and tour our women's program in the Cascade neighborhood, our Veterans program in Shoreline, our men's program in Pioneer Square, our Family Program on 1st Hill, our day center in Belltown or any of our other 10 programs. My personal view is that this neighborhood could use a little economic diversity as it was when I first arrived. Fewer overpriced townhomes and more supportive housing is the way to go.

I've known about this for quite some time because I live quite close and they sent a letter. They way it was portrayed was low income housing, not a homeless shelter. I also heard it was scaled back to around 40 units but I'm sure they will give you the most up to date info. It's not like I love another construction project on the street, but I figure it will raise my property value, not lower it.

kelli..you need to back your myth claim with some valid source,s.

Good question RE: the redevelopment of that spot. There's a five-story building planned across the street: http://web1.seattle.gov/dpd/luib/Notice.aspx?BI...

I live across the street from this house and I think the plan to create housing for the homeless here is fantastic.

It is an absolute myth that the homeless and mentally ill are more likely to be violent. In fact, the population of homeless and mentally ill who are violent is no greater than the population of violent persons in the general population.

And here I thought the bus shelters along Market (especially in front of the old Denny's) had become facilities for the chronically homeless.

I dunno. This could easily be a sucky idea. Or a great idea but in the wrong location.

Here we go again....what is with eh term "chronic" in regard to homelessness? Does it mean they do not want a home? I am not sure what this will solve unless someone is going to babysit them, and get them involved in the community instead of a situation where there is more drug use and drunkenness on Market Street..remember there has been 2 stabbings in the last few days. Ballard WOman, so happy for you, maybe a few of the left overs can move into your house. If you neighbor is a danger to himself and others...dial the phone..the number is 911. IN the meantime soneone explain how this gets described as "the chronic homeless" How is this going to help....? May have been one place I woud have welcomed a condo project instead...

If your nasty drunk hits the streets you would be less afraid of him?

I say welcome to the neighborhood.

My next door neighbor is a married guy with a mortgage, a job and two kids. Plus he's a nasty drunk. I am more afraid of him corking off some night than some homeless folks who are given housing, and a new chance at life. Yeesh.

That place is a shit hole. I've marveled at it for years everytime I come and go from Kinko's. I hope they make some effort to clean it up a bit...or at least make it safe to live in. That staircase is totally rotten.

perhaps bobcat, but I didnt come here for a handout and free ride.

what I wonder is why there isnt more IMBY,S?

why not let them stay in your spare bedroom, basement? that way you and those who feel as you do can have some real hands on good deeds instead of palming the problem off on others.

@9 - perfect NIMBY response.

I assume you were born and bred in Ballard as well?

Great, just another reason for homeless from all over the nation to come to Seattle. More free stuff! You know that the network of homeless people that travel the country pass the word about all the free things you can get frm the city ie. alcohol, medical coupons, etc. now more free housing, wow!

Are they going to tear down that building and put something new there? Bc no way that thing's going to hold 60 units.

what most people here do not realize is most of these people come from somewhere else. they are not ballards homeless.
word gets around that seattle, like san francisco(which is in a hell of a mess) is a soft touch.
where do they get the money for cigarettes and drugs? they panhandle and mug; they not some joe who lost his job at boeing but hard core addicts.

good for the mayor for seeing through these scams, otherwise we would be as bad off as san francisco.

I've got to say I think that if the housing is paired with services this can be a benefit to Ballard's homeless population making things safer for all of us. It's also an opportunity for us to get involved now as neighbors and do some work to realize that safe situation.

Unlike Sustainable Ballard and it's ridiculous scheme to house people in tents in parking lots with a high tech potty as the solution, at least the Compass Center appears to be an organization that attempts to deal with and provide support for the other underlying issues such as substance abuse, mental health, vocational counseling and getting people back on track. Maybe with a solid roof over their heads some of these people can begin to get their lives in order.

Let's not forget that the new housing is going to provide safety for those living there as well. They're in more danger being homeless than we are being nearby the place they sleep at night.

I just had a homeless man walk into where I work on Ballard Ave. because he had just gotten beat up and he needed to borrow my cell to call for a ride. He said to me while he called, "I'm so tired of getting beat up..."
It was heartbreaking. This new housing will be a really great thing.

Well, I'm thrilled that the homeless will have a place to stay, and hopefully this building gets a bit of a facelift.

My only concern stems from the fact that as it is now, I hear about one angry drunk-fight in the alley per week and I'm not thrilled at the prospect of that number going up.

Just because they're homeless doesn't mean they're trouble-makers. Give me a break! Have a little compassion.

Why not in West Seattle, the MAYOR'S neigbhorhood? Oh, right, the same reason that they don't have parking meters in West Seattle...it's the Mayor's neighborhood!

Well shit, that's near our apartment. I gotta walk by there on my way home late at night from the bar? Why couldn't they have bought some property down on Leary near the bridge?

great! more drunks and druggies for ballard.