Bus stops removed along 24th Ave NW

Geeky Swedes Ballard

A hand full of bus stops along 24th Ave NW have been shut down to create better flow for Route 75.

Metro Transit removed eight stops on Route 75 and 18 on 24th to “help buses move faster and operate on a more reliable schedule, reduce energy consumption and emissions, and reduce Metro’s operating and maintenance costs,” the website states.

A total of 27 bus stops of the 168 from NW Market St to Pend Oreille Rd were shut down a few days ago. According to Metro, this change affects approximately 5% of Route 75 riders. But as a result, Metro says, the riders should have a faster, more reliable trip.

Wondering if your stop is closed? Here’s the list. (Thanks Caliope for posting this in the forum.)

Geeky Swedes

The founders of My Ballard

53 thoughts to “Bus stops removed along 24th Ave NW”

  1. I don’t mind the 59th and 63rd stops. Means I have to be a couple minutes faster in the morning, but I know there are usually 3-4 of us at 5:45 am at the 61st stop so I am glad that remains.

  2. I’m sure this is an inconvenience for some bus riders, but as a driver, I’ll admit that the removal of the southbound stop between 58th and 59th St. will actually help remove an awkward (and potentially unsafe) situation: when one of the long buses stops at this stop, it actually blocks 59th street almost completely. I’ve seen several very close calls there when the bus was stopped, blocking the cross street, and drivers drove around the rear end of the bus (emerging totally blind onto 24th) – this was a serious accident waiting to happen. I was hoping that the bus stop itself might be moved a bit further south. But from a safety standpoint, this is a better fix.

    I’m sure it sucks a little though if the location was convenient for you, but it sounds like removing bus stops is part of that whole “austerity” theme we’ll all be hearing so much about (you know, where the wealthiest Americans wrecked the economy, and the low and middle income folks get to pay for it).

  3. Darren, this is EXACTLY the stop I was hoping would be removed! Sometimes I’d be turning right, so I’d be stuck behind the bus until it left (or until it was safe for me to back up, which never happened when everyone was on their way to work). So then people would pull to the left of me, and try to fit around the back of the bus. When they were turning right, it wasn’t too bad, but the ones who were turning left or driving straight across 24th would take some very scary chances.

    I also wonder why they didn’t move the bus stop to the south a bit, so the super long buses wouldn’t block traffic. Car drivers can get a ticket for that, it’s not fair that a bus was EXPECTED to do it.

  5. “Faster” if you’re not handicapped and have to cross more streets to get to a stop. As I mentioned in an email to metro this is the case.

  7. Hey Darren, does Metro ever operate in the black? Ever? If “the rich” weren’t there, then who’d pay your wages/salary? Isn’t it true Darren that the more a government does FOR one it can do TO one? “The rich” don’t ride buses. But they do pay for ’em. We all do. I never ride a bus, but I pay for ’em. But keep thinking that way buddy. You’ll simply be miserable the rest of your life then.

  12. I didn’t see any notice on the stop (northbound between 59th and 60th) that it was going to be removed. I kinda yelped at the driver b/c I thought she had missed the stop. Oops! I means I have to get off the bus at 61st or in front of QFC, no biggie, but it would have been nice to see a sign on the bus stop pole… Just sayin’ :-)

  13. I contacted the My Ballard tips line about this on the 17th, before the stops closed. Metro provided little advance notice to Rt. 18 and 75 riders of the proposed closures. Rt. 18 riders would not have necessarily thought about Rt. 75 alerts on the website. I didn’t.

    The real problem is that the impetus for the closures was a study of the Rt. 75 line but resulted in the removal of colocated Rt. 18 line stops serving the busy heart of the Rt. 18 line. They weren’t thinking of the 18 line and didn’t provide any stats on impact on Rt. 18 riders on the website. The only stats provided were for Rt. 75 riders. How many riders are using Rt. 75 southbound to Ballard in the morning or heading northbound in the evening? Essentially local Ballard service could and should be accomplished using Rt. 18. Residents between 28th Ave. and about 20th Ave. need those stops for local and downtown service. Removing stops above 65th Street means people who would have to walk .75 miles or more to the center of Ballard (up hill or downhill) and previously would have to walk no more than about .2 miles will now have an additional .1 mile each direction to get a bus. It may not sound like a lot but it adds up in terms of overall time and effort.

    Furthermore Rt 18 express serving downtown commuters is affected as well. This route is intended to be a convenience — hitting every stop above 65th to fill up and then express to Market Street, then to the Ballard Bridge and then downtown. The value of the convenience is markedly reduced with an increased walk, a longer line at each stop in rush hour and less shelter space during rain and snow.

    The following is from the letter that I recently wrote to their Customer Service line. They obviously elected not to take any action that I can tell on any of the Ballard stops on 24th Ave. However with feedback from Rt. 18 riders maybe they will reconsider. The only response I received was generic and did not address any of my specific arguments or concerns. I urge all 18 riders whose stops have been closed to write or call the Metro customer service line.

    ***

    The spacing project on Route 75 does seem rational for Rt. 75 riders along 24th Ave. NW — particularly Southbound 75 riders and especially during the AM rush hour. Few if any riders should board a Southbound Rt 75 at my stop, 67th Ave. and 24th Ave, during the morning commute except for the purpose perhaps of transferring to Rt. 17, 44 or 46 on Market Street in Ballard. This is because the terminus of Rt. 75 is in downtown Ballard, about one mile from our stop and Rt. 18 could also be used for travel in that direction. Moreover during the morning rush hour there should be few University District passengers arriving in downtown Ballard. It appears that there was some quantitative analysis of the impact of Rt. 75 users prior to the decision to mothball certain 75 stops.

    That being said I don’t see any justification for closing stops for the busy Rt 18 along the portion of 24th Ave. NW shared with Rt. 75 and no quantative analysis of Rt. 18 riders appears to have been offered to support the position.

    Anecdotally it appears that many Rt. 18 riders use the 24th Ave stops slated for closure, specifically including my stop at 67th and 24th Ave. These riders, like myself, appear to be overwhelmingly commuters taking express and local coaches to the downtown core for work. Increasing stop spacing means a significant loss of convenience with crowded stops, less shelter space during rain and snow, increased commute time to allow for reaching a more distant stop, and additional time waiting in lines to board or leave a bus.

    I currently use public transportation every work day. Assuming 20 workdays per month or 240 work days per year the planned closure of my stop means that I will have to walk an additional 48 miles per year. At a walking pace of 3 miles per hour this means commuting time of an additional 16 hours per year. Assume even 5 similarly situated riders board Rt. 18 coaches at my stop every 20 minutes between 6am and 9am, that is 45 riders per day. This equates to increased walking of 2160 miles a year and 720 hours a year in increased commuting time for those individuals. I believe there is a virtual certainty that rider data will support that many more than 45 people depart from and arrive back at the 67th street stop on 24th Ave NW per day.

    The Rt. 18 is also extremely important for the elderly and infirm riders from Ballard to Loyal Heights and even North Beach and Olympic Manor, who require public transportation and are not fit enough to routinely walk three quarters of a mile or more up hill or down hill to get to the grocery store, library, neighborhood service center, or the other services of downtown Ballard. Adding another 1/10th of a mile uphill or downhill as the case could work a significant hardship on some of those individuals.

    ***

    The Rt. 18 it is also an important connection for those transferring to other coaches in the direction of downtown, South Lake Union, U.W. Hospital/the U.District and Fremont. Reducing stops means increased overall commuting time and effort for those individuals and increased risk of missing a scheduled 18 due to an increased walk might mean a missed connection and missed work.

    It is unclear why certain existing stops currently serving both Rt 18 and Rt. 75 cannot be simply redesignated a Rt. 18-only stop. This would minimize the impact on numerous Ballard commuters traveling to and from downtown while enabling some cost savings on a sparsely utilized portion of Rt. 75. If the closure of the listed Rt. 18 stops will not have a significant impact on many current riders it should be no problem to provide that data showing that the impact of stop closures will be minimal. As it is clear that two routes are being affected because of a study characterized as being only of Rt. 75 and impact data has only been provided for Rt. 75.

    Please do not close the 67th and 24th stop at all, or alternatively please publicize the study that has been conducted on impact on Rt. 18 riders thorugh closure of the planned and specified stops. If no data has been collected please postpone your decision affecting Rt. 18 riders pending further study.

    Thank you for your consideration
    {}

  14. That’s what ACCESS is for. If you can’t make it to the bus stop, ACCESS will pick you up and drop you off door to door. Seems quite selfish for a single person to slow down the bus because they need their own special stop.

  16. Do you really think your car driving isn’t subsidized??? Cars are VERY heavily subsidized in this country. Licensing fees, gas taxes and sales taxes on cars doesn’t even come remotely close to covering the costs of street maintenance, law enforcement, billions in medical expenses due to car crashes, etc., etc.

  17. I hope they do this with the 15 as well. It’s absurd that there are 3 stops within a few hundred feet of each other (one in front of Whitman, one at 90th and one in front of the fire station). These days I only ride the 15 when it’s pouring and freezing. The rest of the time I ride my bike which has proven to be on average 10 minutes faster over the course of my 9 mile commute (and that’s without running red lights or stop signs).

  19. There’s nothing more annoying than riding a bus and knowing it could maybe twice as fast if it didn’t stop at every other block. Every route should do this.

  21. route 15 has more riders and it only stops every 5 blocks. there is plenty of shelter here. you are welcome to migrate over to 15th if you need some.

  22. Pretty sure that metro has been looking at every route. Just a matter of time until they get to the 17, probably won’t bother even looking at the 15 since it will be replaced with rapid ride. Already looking at stop reductions and other improvements for the 44.

    Another thing that they could do is further discourage cash payments and promote ORCA more. Get rid of paper transfers and maybe even raise the cash fare, anything to discourage people fumbling with change and dollar bills would be a good thing.

    Getting rid of the ride free area downtown would also be a good step. Make it pay as you enter 100% of the time. Front door would be enter only, rear door exit only. No more waiting for everybody to disembark before the first person can board the bus.

  29. The only part of your post after the first three words I read was: “Thank you for your consideration”

    -You’re welcome!

    BTW, I think it’s ironic that the comments version of War and Peace was authored by someone who thought using a screen name of more than two characters would be wasteful.

  30. recently access has put some strict limitations on who they will and will not pick up. apparently, some abused the system and access has really tightened up on who they cater to.

  33. So as long as you’re not abusing the service, you’re good to go. Can’t make it to the bus stop? Get your md to write a referral and do the ACCESS evaluation.

  36. One other thing Metro needs to do is put route maps at every shelter. Seattle is the only major city I’ve been in where the shelters have no maps. Not a problem if you have a smart phone but if you don’t it forces you to ask the driver for directions thus delaying the bus. Plus the drivers often don’t know what other routes go where making them a less than ideal source of information. If Boston, SF, NYC, Paris, etc. can all post route maps why can’t Seattle?

  37. I have to walk a block and a half more to catch the bus. Inconvenient in that way.

    I’m not complaining. I’m doing the opposite of complaining. But, yes, this will mean slightly more footsteps for me to get on the 18.

  38. Really? In Ballard, I think maybe they could stand to lose the one by the car dealership, but otherwise they seem pretty far apart to me, up until market. I never ride past market, so maybe they’re close together out west?

  39. Because the city is run by starry-eyed idiots who are clueless about the REAL needs of its citizens. They would rather spend money to equip every bus and SDOT truck with a GPS rather than put up some low-tech maps at the bus stops. They assume everyone has an iPhone. Morans!

  40. yes they are…. there are 4 stops between 24th and 32nd… there only need to be two.

    and then there are stops ~ ever 2 (sometimes 3) blocks from 55th up to 85th. every other could be pulled out there as well.

  41. TN — it’s pretty clear Darren was referring to the wealth-destroying rich, those such as many corporate leaders who get ridiculous pay packages unjustified by their managerial skills. Ironically, these parasites continue to exist because of the very diffuse nature of modern corporate stock ownership — getting together a majority of the shareholders to vote down a pay proposal is nigh on impossible, so the parasites multiply. Real interested stock ownership in a company would make it much more difficult for parasites to survive.
    Compare the parasites with wealth-creators such as Warren Buffet, whose most recent salary is about $100,000. He gets most of his compensation by sharing in the wealth creation as a stockholder.

  42. TN — it’s pretty clear Darren was referring to the wealth-destroying rich, those such as many corporate leaders who get ridiculous pay packages unjustified by their managerial skills. Ironically, these parasites continue to exist because of the very diffuse nature of modern corporate stock ownership — getting together a majority of the shareholders to vote down a pay proposal is nigh on impossible, so the parasites multiply. Real interested stock ownership in a company would make it much more difficult for parasites to survive.
    Compare the parasites with wealth-creators such as Warren Buffet, whose most recent salary is about $100,000. He gets most of his compensation by sharing in the wealth creation as a stockholder.

  44. They should remove ALL the unneccessary stops. MY stop is the ONLY one that is neccessary! All the rest of the stops just slow the bus down and wastE MY time and money. It is a waste of tax payer dollars and MY valuable time to stop to pick up or drop off anyone but ME. I hate it when I am riding home and the bus just keeps stopping to let people off. It takes FOREVER. If they would just eliminate all those stops I could get home and watch TV.

  45. Ha ha ha! Funny. But there are generally far more bus stops than needed, left over from the days when there was hardly any traffic, cars broke down all the time, and buses actually had a chance of competing with cars. Nowadays, the bus just needs to go faster to compete with cars.

  46. This hurts the elderly, and the infirm and the bus system. Adding 10 minutes to a commute will put some people back in their cars, and homes that are now a 15 minute walk to the bus will lose value, because they’re too far to be considered bus convenient. I understand that those who live near remaining stops, the young, and those who only drive don’t care about the people this hurts, why should you care about the people in your city?

    Metro did this about 15 years ago in other neighborhoods, spent a fortune on eliminating stops and changing signs, to add parking–ridership went down, and they added them back again. It’s a waste of money and it means that cars are more important than people, and cars are more important than transit.

    We have an aging population in Seattle, and this is a big SCREW YOU to anyone who relies on buses because of limited mobility. King County is saying BAH HUMBUG and so are all of you who support this because it doesn’t affect you. It hurts a lot of people and the concept of Seattle as a bus culture.

    And to Vandefriends who only cares about cutting off the bus and that the buses inconvenience you–the buses still have the right of way! Please learn the law, and learn to respect others, you are not the only person on the road.

  47. What home is a 15 minute walk from a stop? Just how slow are you walking? My 89 year old grandmother can walk more than a half mile in under 15 minutes. I don’t know of any homes that are more than a half mile from a stop. Also if you’re mobility impaired you’re eligible for the Access program.

  48. Only very few are eligible for the Access program. And guess what–with budget cuts, even fewer are eligible–my elderly mother is not eligible because she is not handicapped enough.

    Are you willing to pay more taxes for more Access vans and drivers? What’s the point of allegedly saving a little money to get more parking spots if you have to spend a lot more for expensive services like Access. I love how people who don’t want to pay more taxes just say “use the government resources”. How Marie Antoinette of you to say let them eat cake.

    Merry Christmas to you, you certainly don’t get the season of good will to men–you assume that all others have what you have and the heck with those who don’t. I’ve been amazed at the hateful comments by people on this blog. Seattle is quickly becoming like the unlivable East Coast cities I escaped 25 years ago, and as those cities are becoming more people friendly and transit friendly, Seattle is becoming less so.

  49. You seem to imply that maps are a cheap & low-tech alternative to GPS tracking, but the two are entirely unrelated. And for my money, GPS tracking is money much better spent: a map may come in handy from time to time, but knowing how long it is until the next bus is almost always useful to know.

    BTW, OneBusAway has a touch-tone (and SMS) interface, so you don’t need a fancy smart phone to take advantage of the real-time arrival information.

  50. You seem to imply that maps are a cheap & low-tech alternative to GPS tracking, but the two are entirely unrelated. And for my money, GPS tracking is money much better spent: a map may come in handy from time to time, but knowing how long it is until the next bus is almost always useful to know.

    BTW, OneBusAway has a touch-tone (and SMS) interface, so you don’t need a fancy smart phone to take advantage of the real-time arrival information.

  51. Where do you get the idea that these stops are being removed to create parking? They’re being removed primarily to speed up bus runs. And for every person who stops riding the bus because they can’t or won’t walk another block or two to the nearest stop, there’s another person (or three) who is more likely to take the bus because it is now faster and more reliable.

    And I’m not sure where you get the idea that Metro is making cars more important than transit. Read the plans for the route 44 that have been mentioned in this blog; they include bus bulbs which allow buses to remain in the traffic lane when they pick up passengers. This means cars have to wait behind the buses, and buses don’t have to wait for drivers to yield (which, as you point out, they rarely do) in order to get back into traffic. The restriping of Dexter includes similar bus bulbs that should speed up the route 28. And by removing excess stops that lack bus bulbs, buses pull out of traffic less frequently, which means they don’t get stuck waiting for cars to yield so often. Efforts such as these don’t make cars more important than people or transit. Rather, they help make transit more competitive to the single-occupancy vehicle and make transit more viable to more users.

  52. Where do you get the idea that these stops are being removed to create parking? They’re being removed primarily to speed up bus runs. And for every person who stops riding the bus because they can’t or won’t walk another block or two to the nearest stop, there’s another person (or three) who is more likely to take the bus because it is now faster and more reliable.

    And I’m not sure where you get the idea that Metro is making cars more important than transit. Read the plans for the route 44 that have been mentioned in this blog; they include bus bulbs which allow buses to remain in the traffic lane when they pick up passengers. This means cars have to wait behind the buses, and buses don’t have to wait for drivers to yield (which, as you point out, they rarely do) in order to get back into traffic. The restriping of Dexter includes similar bus bulbs that should speed up the route 28. And by removing excess stops that lack bus bulbs, buses pull out of traffic less frequently, which means they don’t get stuck waiting for cars to yield so often. Efforts such as these don’t make cars more important than people or transit. Rather, they help make transit more competitive to the single-occupancy vehicle and make transit more viable to more users.

  53. I have filed a complaint with Metro customer relations website regarding the removal of the northbound stop at 63rd, now I have to walk two blocks uphill and then west on 63rd, or down from 65th where I have to cross now two high volume streets which doubles my risk of injury. There was zero notice or consultation with either ridership or any of the Ballard community organizations that I am aware of. I am strongly opposed to doing this without discussion and doubt the theory espoused.

    I see below somebody noted that the Route 18 was an inadvertant impact for what was alleged a Route 75 improvement. We have exactly the same risk on the Route 44 proposals for stop removals which are also shared by the Route 17, which this blog eiscussed earlier (and without accurate information from Metro’s spokesperson btw).

    No bus driver is is not an austerity program it is a misinformed transit planning theory.

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