Ballard parks the focus of safety meeting

According to neighbors, safety is an ongoing issue at Ballard Commons Park, Bergen Place Park and Marvin’s Garden.

Last month, neighbors delivered a petition to the Parks Department that was signed by 80 businesses and residents. The petition calls for an exclusion zone for the area. “We have very heavy daily use of drinking, drugs and sexual behavior,” a neighbor said. On Thursday, June 4th from 7 p.m. to 8:30 p.m., Seattle Parks and Recreation, Seattle Police and the Seattle Department of Neighborhoods will hold a community meeting to discuss safety and security issues at the three parks. Parks staff will talk about the exclusion zone for the parks as well as work with the community to bring positive activities to the area. The Department of Neighborhoods staff will let community members know how to apply for funding to make improvements to the parks and put on community events. SPD will provide personal safety tips and talk about the importance of calling 911. The meeting will be held at the Ballard Library.

Geeky Swedes

The founders of My Ballard

126 thoughts to “Ballard parks the focus of safety meeting”

  1. Folks schedule these meetings for times that I cannot attend. As always, I'd much appreciate news regarding the local meeting. I really heavily on the Geeky Swedes, again, thanks as always.
    Oh, if someone would be so kind to suggest a daytime meeting, I would be grateful.

  2. We need to all show up for this meeting. This is an opportunity to really be heard. We are being listened to. Keep speaking up!

  3. Radical Idea

    For the well being of all in downtown Ballard, especially the businesses, close the park. Until we get a handle on how to control these animals, it is the only solution.

    Close it, rope it off and anyone in the park should be arrested for tresspassing. What else can we do? It's a magnet for every criminal from here to the Central District these days. It's not worth it.

    TEN businesses have gone under just on Market Street in the past year. Is it worth it? People are afraid of downtown Ballard, and those who go down there are harrassed and intimidated. It has become impossible to even use sidewalk seating on Market Street without harrassment from transients. You want resturant customers to fight with transients on the sidewalks all summer? Come on…

    I love the park, but the park is causing business to literally grind to a halt on Market Street. Keep the park pristine and close it for at least the summer. This has become an economic life or death situation for Ballard business owners. It's no laughing matter any more.

    Re-open Bergen Park after the police finally arrive in Ballard, or that Park will turn into such a circus this summer, you will regret you did not close it. Especially if you are a business owner, who has to shut down for good…

  4. Roping off the park will do nothing. Who is going to patrol the ropes at 2 a.m.? Closing the parks can't be an option. We should make them more open, not close them off.
    I'll be at the meeting. And I hope closing the parks isn't all we can come up with.

  5. It's not the park and transients that has caused businesses to go out of business… The economy sucks right now, that is the main cause. Yes, transients are annoying, and we want more cops. But we can not blame all of the woe on them.

    Let's use this meeting as a step in the right direction and find reasonable ways to fix the problems. not just complain about them.

  6. Really? Try sitting outside Lombardis or any other place with outside seating on Market Street for dinner. Tell us how wonderful it was when you get home. I will bet you 10 dollars, a transient will bother you as you eat. Mark my words. It happens every single time.

  7. I am saying close it for 6 months, until we get some police here. For the sake of the park itself and the people it represents from Norway. They are ruining the place. Preserve the park.

  8. I ate at the Matador outside recently when we were getting the good weather, a couple of weeks back. Not a single person, homeless, transient, panhandler, or otherwise appeared, hassled or asked for money. I may take you up on that $10 bet, 'cause 52 Honduran crack dealers, and a whole bunch of other dealers, etc. are not here, they're in Belltown. People are not afraid to walk Market, I see tons of folks every day, including during crummy weather. The economy's why businesses are going down-just read the stories, ask the owners leaving. No story on MyBallard.com features business owners on Market giving up from all the crime-crummy economy is the story here. Also, Belltown would be empty by the logic that street people are driving folks away, but I was coming home from the Cinerama last night and there's lots of folks there too, and plenty of weirdos. Why all the distortion about what's going on in Ballard? There's all sorts of undesirable people running around Ballard lately, and it needs addressing (Bike Cops, anyone?), but exaggerating the problem won't help. If all the criminals from the CD and Northwards were here, there would be shootings every day, and muy mucho gang members everywhere. C'mon, lets discuss this rationally, please!

  9. The economic downturn certainly hasn't helped, but when local customers just stop going to Ballard to spend money because they're tired of being hassled by scumbags and they feel threatened by the thugs that have taken over the streets, that's enough to push lots of struggling businesses over the edge.

    I used to enjoy walking to Market Street to shop or grab a bite to eat. Not any more. I'm sick of the bums, and I'm not spending money there anymore.

    As long as the sidewalks are owned by the drug dealers, drunks, felons and other trash, people with money to spend are going to stay away and take that money elsewhere, and you can hardly blame them. As long as the pro-bum lobby controls Ballard, I think you can look forward to a steady stream of longtime shops going out of business.

  10. As much as I hate to see any public space close, I think you're right, FB4R. Close the park to save it.

    Things have clearly gotten out of control there. If the city cannot manage the park and maintain a basic level of safety and civility there — and it certainly looks like either they can not or will not — then it should be closed until such time as the city can take proper care of it.

    Yes, it would suck to have it fenced off, but that's preferable to it being a lawless, free-for-all where only the drug dealers and thugs dare go, a breeding ground for more and more lawlessness and sleaze that will just expand and spread.

    A good, stout, high, chain-link fence topped with some razor-wire would keep the bad guys out, and that would cost less that the rent-a-cops that the city tells us we would need to pay for for our own protection.

  11. I sat out in front of Cupcake Royale a couple of hours this afternoon. That corner appears to be a hotbed of criminal activity. Yuk.

  12. This is Ballard, not Bosnia. Well, I sure hope somebody has a better plan than a chain link fence topped with razor wire. I like the little parks here.

  13. A neighborhood watch comes up sometimes on these threads but I never see anything organized. You're right, you'd think the condo residents would like to help with that.

  14. There is now an active neighborhood watch group formed in Loyal Heights. If you want to see a group formed in your section of Ballard, then do it. A little initiative goes a long way.

  15. Ok, let's examine the photo at the top of this article. Bergen Park, at night, 2 people who may be a problem; apparently some folks have seen the guy sitting with the red jacket involved in illicit activities. Ok. Guy standing, could be a bum or buying drugs, right?

    Now count the people in the background. Looks like 8 or 9, maybe more folks, out on Market Street-waiting for the light to turn, standing by the theater & cupcake place . They look respectable, fairly normal to me, IMHO.

    I am not able to see sidewalks “owned by the drug dealers, drunks” etc., I see 8-9 folks, and perhaps 2 problem people. That's a 4/1 ratio in the photo, of neighborhood folks vs. street people. I've seen way worse elsewhere.

    Have you seen Belltown lately? Full of dealers and shady people. Ballard has them, too, but to be blunt, when was the last time you saw 10-20 crack dealers or more, usually black, in a 4 block span? C'mon, where's the usual black crack dealers? Ballard isn't as bad as portrayed-just part of a big city, that FINALLY started having the same problems as most any other big city. Ballard has had the benefit of being very, very quiet and mild for years, so now it looks bad by comparison.

    Imagine the old days of the fisherman drunks from decades ago. My my, that would terrify, wouldn't it?

  16. Wally, wtf? So, lucky you, you haven't seen a reason to be pissed.
    Well, let me tell you a story. Many people choose not to patronize Ballard businesses due to the transient issue, especially the aggressive, entitled idiots, who won't get off their ass and find something else to do, besides hassle my customers. Sorry, but you piss me off. I'm tired of explaining what's going on, what I'm doing about it, and then, you, come along, thanks for nothin', jerk.

  17. Now that's what I'm talkin about, Mickey.
    Personally, I don't have the initiative right now to organize a utensil drawer. But if anyone wants to start something I'm there. Maybe there will be something mentioned at the meeting about a watch group.

  18. You are not alone. I am regularly on the pike/pine corridor during the day and see way more problems. Even with the amount of bike/beat cops around it is night and day compared to ballard. Sure, ballard could use a few bike cop patrols once and a while, though its not going to happen until there is funding available. Until then I would like to continue to see them downtown where I feel a lot less safe.

  19. As far as I know, there's no formal watch program happening in downtown Ballard. I thought there was one forming, but I haven't seen any activity lately. We do have a few people interested still in a Bike Patrol. With this said, at least two of us plan to meet in front of Tully's on our bikes at 10:00 PM this Friday night.

  20. Amen. I feel safer in Ballard than: the CD, the park off Pike Place Market, Belltown, Capital Hill, First Hill, etc.

    I think the folks who think Ballard's a war zone NEVER get out of Ballard. Ever.

    Matter of perspective.

  21. Chopper, where's your story? Tell the story, then. I want to hear it. I don't like people hassling folks either, but tell the story about it and be specific. There's nothing to relate to. Your statement's too general.

    For example; the lady and the guy who have the dog (referenced numerous places on MyBallard.com). she comes up, and says “can I ask you something?” – the person with me said “NO!”, loudly and the lady just stared, confused for a moment after the refusal. That's a story.

    I told a story about being at the Matador, it's a real experience we had with friends. Let's hear yours. This is supposed to be a dialog, not attacking others for relating what they've experienced.

  22. I walk down Market late at night all the time when I take the 18 home. I haven't experienced the problem that the commenters are always railing about, or does the problem people only come out after 11pm? I've had people ask me for change in Ballard maybe 10 times in the last 5 years, compared to downtown Seattle where I'm asked maybe every other time I'm down there. I've never been harassed in Ballard. I don't own a car so I'm always walking around Ballard and I just don't see what they are talking about.

    I do think it's possible crime has increased in Ballard and I just haven't seen it. Does anyone have statistics to back this up? I wouldn't think it would be hard to find it. The way people talk and respond on here makes it hard to take their word for it.

  23. Neighborhood Watch is a loose term. It's really nothing more than a bunch of folks keeping watch out their windows, and phoning neighbors or police if something looks out of place. Most of us are doing that anyway. So consider yourself a Neighborhood Watcher.

  24. Because it “appears” to be a hotbed of criminal activity. Homeless/sketchy looking people congregating scares the s*** out of people but it doesn't mean they are criminals. If allison did “personally witness something” she would have had all the right to report them. If not, lets not divert our attention from real criminals to homeless. They have just as much right to be on the sidewalk and talk to each other as anyone else. Keep alert, be vigilant, but don't get distracted.

  25. Here we go again! In skimming over this latest round of comments, I can't believe the naivete of some of you people. Where have you all been? Haven't you read any of the past dialogues on this very subject?!

    Wally, you need to spend more than one evening down here to see the patterns. Dining at Matador is not allowing you to be observant.

    Jessi, the entire Ballard Avenue group of residents and merchants has organized and met with Capt. Washburn and his entire department from North Precinct, the Parks Department, the Mayor's office and Tim Burgess from the City Council. We also have a tight-knit observation system that allows us to log license plates, film drug deals and identify drug dealers and users.

    By the way, everyone, the fat man in the red jacket is known as William Roberts (according to his Real Change badge), Sky, and Dean. He, Toby Bjorn, and a large 40 something guy with a ponytail, baseball cap, and usually a brown hoody sweatshirt and blue jeans are found most afternoons and late evenings in and around Bergen Place looking furtively in all directions for users of their product. You can't miss them. If you look long enough, you may see the delivery vehicles pull up with the goods.

    In addition to all this, if you hang out on Ballard Avenue during work hours, you may find that a certain business establishment is involved with the drug trade. Just watch where the usual suspects check in.

    Ballard Coalition, Bike Patrol will fill you in when you meet with him. We patrolled with him three weeks ago and observed a lot in a short amount of time.

    Our efforts have resulted in a few arrests, not enough, but we are making progress. We have compiled a lot of video footage, but we need more in order to press our case to the police.

    Data Junkie, harassment is not the overriding problem, though it happens regularly. Drugs, theft, car prowling, public urination-defecation, public sex, burglary, and mugging
    is the problem. Just go to the North Precinct SPD website to find your proof.

    One last thing, I was involved in getting some of the signatures on the above mentioned petition and I am extremely upset about the way this is being handled. We submitted the petition to Chris Williams last month in order for it to be considered by Tim Gallagher, the Parks Superintendent who has the authority to implement the exclusion zone. At the last hour, the Mayor's office stepped in and unilaterally pulled it from the Parks meeting agenda in order to “study” it. So now we have to have a little “feel good” meeting and that will be the end of it. More taxpayer's money wasted on the bureaucracy.

    For those of you who don't understand the Parks exclusion zone idea, it is a tool which allows the police or Parks Department to consider the three downtown neighborhood parks (Marvin's Garden, Bergen Place, and Ballard Commons) as one zone. When individuals are trespassed and cited for disorderly conduct or criminal behavior in one park, they are automatically barred from the other two nearby parks. William Roberts was trespassed from Marvin's Garden last year and he simply walked across the street and continued his activities in Bergen Place.

    Most of us in the downtown area would like to see the exclusion zone implemented. If any of you agree, would you please show up at this lame meeting and speak out?

  26. I think that he was referring to your posts in the past which tried to spread fear about the “black crack dealers” moving into the neighborhood.

  27. What I'm referencing, is that Belltown had 52 Honduran crack dealers, supplanting the usual (mostly black) crack dealers in that neighborhood until the police bust. This isn't a judgment, it's what was reported in the papers.

    The other point, is that the posters here who feel that Ballard's overrun with horrible people most likely would REALLY freak out if lots of black street people suddenly were showing up. I am not racist, and am not making racist comments-please read them carefully. I do wonder if some of the posters here ARE racist, though.

  28. oh, Trix, they'll blame the economy, they'll blame the public safety issue, they'll blame the reduction in revenue (all lies), and yes, we'll loose the parks before we can use the parks.
    Vote better, all of you, or we'll be another statistic.
    Voice better, or we'll be drowned out by Wally et al.
    Vanquish the elitist crap that enables the 'down trodden'.
    Get a job!

  29. I live and work in Ballard, often walking to work. Does that count?

    Where have I been? Last week in DC for work, and there's lots more to be worried about there. Had to push off panhandlers everywhere. San Francisco in April, there's weirdos spaced evenly on all downtown blocks, very aggressive panhandlers. Makes Ballard seem pretty tame, honestly.

    Ballard business near mine got robbed repeatedly, we have a burglar alarm, and I see stuff that ain't cool. So don't assume I am not aware of the issues. I just know that lots of the burglars are from outside Ballard (kind of makes sense, really), and that other places have it worse. Ever been to the Mission in San Francisco?

    Remember, I was replying to a posting GUARANTEEING that I'd be hassled if I ate outdoors. I ate outdoors, and didn't get hassled. I want my 10 bucks.

    Why is it that some posters make wide reaching assumptions about a single story? This happens often on this blog.

    There's sketchy people more and more in Ballard-welcome to the big city, folks. Been here over a decade, and knew the quiet couldn't last. What surprises me is the hostility from some Ballardites on this blog. Go figure.

  30. Why the attacks? Maybe I'm a business owner thats lived in other cities..? I might be older than you think. Assumptions are often off the mark.

  31. Thanks for the explanation of the exclusion zone. The idea makes so much sense that I don't understand why it isn't just automatic for parks in such close proximity.

    As far as these parks and drug use goes, I believe that some businesses have very nice views of these parks. Why don't you just buy some survelliance cameras and collect great evidence of aggressive panhandling, drug deals, tresspassing, etc. for the police? Isn't there an upstairs above Tulleys? Doesn't Lombardi's have a nice view of the park? Or Vera's, or Thaiku? If they are really doing criminal activities, help gather the evidence and put them in jail.

    Or how about something better? Cascade Bicycle Club and the city closed the street last week and had a street party in that “drug filled” park. Children were making bracelets out of old bicycle inner tubes in that “drug filled” park. Why not have some more car-free days on that street and connect the parks and fill the area with sidewalk sales or art or music?

    It seems to me like the drug dealers and the like don't want attention and they go find places that aren't really being used. Those parks never were horribly functional as parks and they never were highly used by regular people in the evening…I don't know about lunchtime. Maybe we just need the parks to be re-designed? What if Marvin's garden and Bergen Place were set up for eating with tables where people could take Thai-food, Subway, Pho, or Teriyaki to go and sit and eat?

    I think public spaces are really valuable, but at least Marvin's Garden and Bergen Place have always seemed like odd spaces to me and I've never really felt compelled to spend time in them…but Ballard Commons on the other hand, I'll wander over there just to watch the skateboarding or to sit and read a book.

    I also expect that some of the current problem with Ballard Commons is the construction zone next to it. Once that building is finished and businesses facing the park are open, and residents overlooking the park move in, I think the park will change.

  32. We already have plenty of black people in Ballard. Many whom are our friends. We have an issue with crime and drug dealers, not blacks. The only person to ever mention race on this blog is Wally.

    Take your racists crap away from here Wally. I think these people should be blocked, but it's not my blog.

  33. um hello…

    The Cupcake Royale payphone ranks up there with the Chai House Payphone as the main drug phones. Can we have them taken away by the phone company? What type of nut uses a payphone is 2009 anyway? My God…

  34. My God Wally, you really want your 10 bucks. We will go double or nothing. Try sitting out there again. No meth head bugs you, you have yourself a cool 20 bones.

  35. Dont those guys live in or on the side of Magnum Self Storage on Ballard Ave? You keep saying they are making deals there. The owner lets them stay there. So, maybe you are mistaken on that one.

  36. The guy that own Magnum Storage lets them live there. That is why they are there, not as dealers, from what I know. Lets not name names, til we have the facts people.

  37. I agree!!! It's really funny how so many people here think they know what “criminal activity” is…. and even funnier how police NEVER get 911 calls to any of these parks… trust me, I know…

  38. What? I don't understand what you are saying.

    I just want a story about good or bad experiences in downtown Ballard. Want to know more about this changing neighborhood that's been home for over a decade. Maybe I'm not seeing what you are-I just want to know more.

  39. Where to start here… Hoo boy…

    The day manager of our business is an African American woman. I hired her. Makes me very, very, extremely racist.

    How's this: the crack/meth dealers in Ballard are white, Vancouver has Triad (Chinese) drug dealers, ice (meth) is a problem in Hawaii, the Japanese Yakuza are in the drug trade, and don't forget the Hondurans. Have I left anyone out? Now that I've made racist statements about African, Asian, Caucasian, Latino, and Pacific Islanders, can we get back to DISCUSSING the issues?

    Slamming other blog posters is just a waste of time.

  40. Yup. What MichaelSnyder said. Can't hear what I say, take a close look at what he says. All makes perfect sense.

    A couple of bike cops would do so much to address the issues most are posting about here.

    Perhaps piping Brandenburg Concertos, Blue Danube Waltz, and Beethoven into the problem parks would improve things. This has worked elsewhere in big cities-speakers playing classical seems to help drive away some street people. Doesn't cost much, and some folks like it a lot. Just a thought.

  41. Tell you what, put the $20 towards starting a pool to hire someone to lobby the city for police bike patrols (since foot patrols seem out of the question-really too bad, 'cause community policing works really well), and I'll double it to $40, making $60 to start.

    I'll bet bike cops would create the Ballard everyone here wants to see.

  42. The people that choose not to shop at Ballard businesses because of this should move to Edmonds. You're NEVER going to get rid of all the homeless so will this continue to dissuade them from supporting Ballard businesses?

    Honestly, these people need to stop being so uptight. I understand that sometimes the homeless can be annoying as all hell, but if they prevent you from leaving your house, to put it bluntly, you're a coward.

    Also, a story has a beginning, middle, and and end.

  43. Just wanted to point out that cities like San Francisco have such an unmanageable problem now because action wasn't taken ten or more years ago when it should have been. Before it got so horrible.

    Which is why people in Ballard are so upset. We don't want Ballard, and Seattle as a whole, to become unlivable. If we don't handle the problem now, in its early stages, we'll have a helluva time doing it later.

    Why do people feel the need to point out that the issues are so much worse in other places? It seems obvious to me that Ballard folks who are upset at the rise of crime and vagrancy must be smarter than people who just want to ignore the problem.

  44. There's a lot of what appears to be hysteria here. Reading some of these comments, you'd think our sidewalks and parks are teeming with sex, drugs and aggressive panhandling, 24/7.

    This has not been my experience, at all. That said, I'm willing to entertain the idea that I'm walking around with blinders on, and/or I'm not in the parks or on the sidewalks when the worst stuff is going on.

    So, all of you people who think that drastic measures like park closure should be taken to keep our parks “pristine” (?!), a challenge:

    Start your own website that tracks illegal behavior in Ballard parks, where people can log what they see. Post real, tangible stories of all this wild illegal activity that's going on right under our noses. You can use it to convince doubters like me that things are really so extreme, and you can use it to attract more police attention to the area.

  45. Wally – don't waste your time waiting for unique stories – many folk here repeat the same old vague stuff – oh well.
    The sky is falling!

  46. I'm glad to find something that I agree with, except, who decided that beat cops won't happen? It's worked well in Belltown, the C.D., in fact, too well, and these thugs have moved up here, Fremont, Greenwood, etc. The outrage should continue until there are boots on the ground here, and the laws that exist become enforced.
    The parks are damn good place to start, and the Mayor derailed the best effort to date to deal with the issue.
    That better cost him.

  47. Actually, I think a 2 person bike cop patrol would be a really, really good idea. Community policing works.

    We should qualify for a foot patrol, but I read elsewhere on this blog that the city won't take that action. Sad.

    How about classical music for the problem parks?

    I'm just trying to say that Ballard's still a really nice place to live and work, with lots of great attributes.

    The problem people are an issue to address, but the reaction I am seeing on this blog seems more appropriate to the blocks of Mission in San Francisco, headed South out of the 16th & Mission BART station. That area is exactly as described here by many posters, and is unbelievably bad compared to Market Street here in Ballard.

  48. Let me paraphrase for chopper
    “No, I do not have statistics to back up my assertions. I do have some second hand accounts of certain situations that happened at an indeterminate time in the recent and no so recent past.”

  49. FreeBallard4Real,

    In answer to your remarks:

    Magnum Storage no longer harbors street people. The owners have wholeheartedly joined their neighbors in the fight against crime.

    Your suggestion that the pay phones at Cupcake Royale and The Chai House be removed is an excellent one. There is another pay phone at the purple storage facility down at the far end of Ballard Ave. that should also go. It is very possible to have this done. Would you be willing to look into that?

    Thanks!

  50. I don't rely on second hand info, including statistics.
    I don't rely on 'it's not that bad here compared to…'
    I don't rely on public safety being someone elses responsibility.
    I don't rely on what you think about me. period.
    can you paraphrase that?

  51. Wally,

    The Ballard Ave. community has tried very hard to lobby the city for bike patrols. The problem is funding. The North Precinct is the largest in the city, stretching from the ship canal to 145th and Shilshole Bay to Lake Washington. The precinct is already understaffed as is the city as a whole.

    Our best ploy to get the police involved is to be vigilant as a community and call 911 at every opportunity. The more calls per incident, the more attention we get. Be assertive and insistent during the call, and when appropriate, demand police reports. In many of our meetings with the police, they have advised us to use 911, because it gets logged whether or not they show up.

  52. Michael Snyder,

    Your idea of our using the parks is an excellent one that has been discussed at great length during our many meetings with the city and Parks Department. Plans are already under way to do just what you suggest.

    Marvin's Garden and Bergen Place are unusual as public spaces, but during the rare times when the troublemakers are not using them, they are really quite wonderful as resting spots and places for coffee drinking, contemplation, meetings of friends, etc.

  53. “I do not understand the difference between anectdotal evidence or have an understanding of statistical evidence. I like to tell stories. I like to write on this here computer about public safety as if it were the same as taking personal responsibility. I rely on creating a public persona here, which is very dear to me, because I am afraid that others might not like me or think of me as wise.”
    hows that?

  54. Sure, get me a big pair of wire cutters. I will get those pay phones taken care of in a half hour. I like said, What kind of nut case uses a payphone in 2009 anyway?

  55. Well, that is one way to do it. I was told that the phone company will remove it at the neighborhood's request. It partly depends upon the businesses near the phone who may have asked for it to be installed.

    Seriously, would you be able to look into it?

  56. Not for free, no. I am not buring up my cell minutes, waiting on hold with three phone companies. I have my own wars I am handling with the drug dealers (In a more covert manner of course)

    I would never suggest or endorse crime, but there have been strange cases where the phone cords from the receiver to the the payphone itselfs has been found cut, and it has taken the phone company over a year to repair the phone. The Chai House phone is case in point. In those cases, it would seem that someone just walked up with a basic pair of heavy duty wire cutters, and risked jail themselves for the better of society as a whole.

  57. Some good ideas here, and kudos to those that made this meeting happen.

    Also, Wally, I'm with you in that I think Ballard would benefit hugely from just a couple of bike cops. There's not much ground to cover, and two active, engaged cops would very quickly run off the sketchy undesirables.

    Also, while I agree with your point that Ballard isn't as bad as DC or San Francisco, I also think Fauxnothing hit it on the head when he or she said that those places went downhill because the residents didn't take action before things got worse. “Ounce of prevention worth pound of cure”, and all that. Outrage now is much more valuable than regret later.

  58. I totally agree. I sat in my car at the light watching two unkempt homeless guys at the Chai House Payphone (on the side of the park) acting super suspicious. Takes those phones away!! Most payphones are phased out anyway. Yeah, who uses them anyway? I can't tell u the last time I used one…..

  59. Yea, and going outside and saying “Get the Hell away from the front of my store jackass” is pretty practical too. I mean come on male bloggers. Don't be such chickens. The woman sure, it's dangerous to chase off a transient or panhandler ruining business, but they guys? You need 911? Give me a break.

  60. Exactly! The drug dealers will still be here if we close the parks. There are still plenty of places in Ballard to deal from.
    And while I admit Ballard isn't nearly as bad as downtown both homelessness and drugs have gotten to be more of a problem than we're used to here.

  61. As a former Ballard retail business owner, I know how hard it is to deal face-to-face with some of the weirdos who hung around outside our store, or came inside and intimidated our customers. It's not just a matter of whether you're male or female, or how big you are, or whether you've got a baseball bat behind the counter. There's also the fear that someone you chase away today will return that night to break your windows or perform some other evil mischief. Retaliation is alive and well.

  62. 'super suspicious?'
    When my mom came down to meet me at the parade last weekend she had to use a payphone to reach me because the battery on her cell phone died that morning. She told me that payphone was the most disgusting thing she's had to touch in a long time.

  63. Not practical in this day and age. Cops are indemnified, armed, and trained to deal with confrontation with unstable people. Even if I happen to be carrying, that's only one out of three.

    Also, there's the recent incident where a citizen in a confrontation was punched–once–and died as a result: http://www.kirotv.com/video/19477183/index.html. I'm not risking my life to shoo away a bum.

    Much safer and more effective to call the cops to deal with lawbreakers. That's what cops are *for*.

    Finally, there's a word for citizens who deal with lawbreakers: vigilantes. They're likely to go to jail/get sued/suffer damage to body or property. Again, not worth it, and much better to make use of the resources we pay for.

  64. That's just it. Ballard used to be one of the safest neighborhoods in Seattle. Ballard used to be very livable. Do we want it to become downtown?

  65. Well done, thanks.
    btw, I do take personal responsibility for my safety, my neighbors safety, and I take it quite seriously, even on this here computer.
    I don't see it as a joke, it's just not that funny.
    And my persona isn't an accident, I don't care to have folks who want me silent to know who I am. It's too bad, really, because I'm more comfortable talking to folks than typing anyway, but my safety is my first job.
    I wouldn't doubt retaliation would be forthcoming, some of you are not stable.
    Clearly.
    Enjoy the weekend, and remember the fallen.

  66. It's a question of degrees really. Is the aggressive bum issue the sole reason? Of course not, but it's an aggravating factor, and one we shouldn't have to deal with.

  67. I've said it before, but the plural of anecdote is data.
    Things have been happening. It's not as bad as some places, but it is worse than it was before.

  68. At least you admit that there are problems in our fair city. I'm constantly hearing from family, friends, and business clients (most from NYC) who visit Seattle about the number of homeless and drug addicts wandering around all parts of the city.
    Most other cities have figured out how to deal with the issues and get a lot of them off the street, why can't Seattle?

  69. Yes, but if the mayor is ordering the police to get the transients and drug dealers out of downtown before the election, and not enforce laws in Ballard, you wont get bike cops. He needs them up here not downtown, because of the number of voters and deals worked out with Belltown Business owners who finance his election. The police could not crack down on Ballards transients if they wanted to.

    He wont even read the thing the Ballard Ave Coilition sent, but instead pulled it and now has it locked away to “study”. It's all fake. My god, learn how politics and elections work in real life, and don't act so gullible.

    “The Mayor who cleaned up downtown” is his platform, and he does not want any problems for the transients who agree to come to Ballard until after the election.

    You will not see a single law enforced on a drug dealer or transients in Ballard until after the election. This is a fact. You also will not get Bike Patrols. Another fact. Sorry, but it is reality folks.

    Ballard is a well known sanctuary to the drug dealers and transients downtown until after the election. Ask them yourselves.

  70. Well, aggressive bums can be aggravating, that is for sure.
    People in need are another symptom of a sick economic system.
    I don't understand why the focus is on bums as the cause and not the result of a bunch of other circumstances. I don't know why you think you should not have to deal with these sorts of outcomes.
    If not you – then who?

  71. Telling a bum not to panhandle in front of your store, makes you a vigilante? OK, keep calling 911.

    I am not saying citizens deal with the criminals, I say business owners ask them to move along, rather than have a bum harrassing your customers hour on end and attracting all his bum pals to the same spot, blocking the sidewalks.

    Then you wonder why people like us dont frequent your shops or care if you go out of business. You are part of the problem because you are pathetic cowards.

    If you dont have the basic courage to tell someone not to panhandle or cause problems outside your business, set up shop elsewhere. It's part of being a business owner. It's not all about ringing your cash registers. There is some responsibilty involved in keep the front of the business passable to the rest of us.

  72. I am a business owner, but my business is online–no bums to shoo away.

    Anyway, whether or not brick & mortar proprietors choose to engage bums is up to them. I'm certainly not going to, as a private citizen. First rule of armed self defense is to avoid confrontation if possible. Reason being that if it escalates, the other person will wind up shot, and you'll be the aggressor / instigator of the confrontation / new resident of a jail cell.

    That said, FB4R if you choose to engage 1:1 with these bums, well go right ahead. I wish you luck.

    Me, I recommend making use of the trained professionals we all are paying to serve and protect us.

  73. Me too, but the police will not show up. I have tried calling myself. I have better luck just saying

    “Hey pal, could you do me a big favor and not do that out here?.”

    They say – “Sure, no problem man.”

    Then I say..

    “Here ya go pal, here's some change, thanks a lot.. Everything going ok?”

    They say

    “Well, you know… been better…”

    You say –

    “I hear that…”

    Whats so damn complicated?

    Thats being a vigilante? You need to call 911 for that?

  74. Thanks faux, I know, retaliation is a real thing, and my greatest concern whenever I stick my neck out on here. Most aren't an issue, but there's a few that frighten me a great deal. I can take care of myself, but my livelihood? My business? My patrons? My family? My neighbors?
    I don't want that liability to haunt me.

  75. To get back to some earlier points…

    How is “closing” the parks a good solution for the rest of us? Chain link and razor wire? What? So the rest of us also feel the “punishment” for others' bad behavior?

    The best way to take back the parks from the hoodlums is to just do it! F-ing take them back already! Use them. Take your kids there. Bring a picnic lunch.

    THEY are the ones who should be peering in from across the street shaking their heads in frustration. Not us.

  76. Bingo!

    Cops aren't the only deterrent to criminals and unsavories. If we sit on that park bench, the drunk doesn't have a nice place to pass out. Use it or lose it. The other deterrent is video cameras. Whether it is a business installed camera or citizens carrying cameras.

  77. Yea, lets all rush down to Bergen Park and use it. Hello? If it was that easy, we would not be on here. There are maniacs in the park. The very ones the Ballard coaliton guy is saying are major crack dealer in fact. On top of that, we have the drug buyers coming and going all day. These business people are not making up stories. I saw it myself today, and only watched for 15 minutes. These people are animals. Even the thug with the pony tail was in and out of the park, and he did not look like he was in the mood for a kid making braclets party. That is where these people do business, and bringing your kid there is stupid and irresponsible as a parent. At least now it is.

  78. I call bullshit on that. On the response that is…not on the problem. If the “thug” isn't in the mood for a braclet party, what do you think he'd do about it? A million bucks says he'd go away. This problem has partly been created by us not using these parks for what they were designed for. Being scared of these places and staying away only makes the problem worse.

  79. Why are you hating on Wally. He's been pretty reasonable if you read his posts. In the first post you attacked he said,

    “Why all the distortion about what's going on in Ballard? There's all sorts of undesirable people running around Ballard lately, and it needs addressing (Bike Cops, anyone?), but exaggerating the problem won't help.”

    So pretty much you guys are on the same page – there are issues that need addressing . . . but he hasn't seen drug dealers “owning the streets”, etc. and simply asked for some stories

    I don't get all the animosity towards a pretty balanced poster.

  80. Boardbrown – Nothing personal, but it's not one guy. It's 20 in and out all day every day in all sorts of states of intoxication. Would you honestly spend a couple hours there making bracelets with a little kid of yours and have mom from out of town, bring a little picnic basket and hang out while you ran errands? It's just not going to happen in the real world. Trust me, I did those types of things years ago in that park. Today, it's just not somethig most rational people would do, when you can simply drive out of Ballard and do them in peace without some transient blowing smoke in your face or trying to talk to you. It's just not my bag. Sorry, I would never bring a decent person into that park these days.

  81. Seriously, maybe those days are gone. But, if there is a single person reading this who would honestly drop their out of town Mom, and say their 2 kids ages 5 and 7 off at Bergen Park for some bracelet making and a little picnic lunch for 2 hours, please post something here. 10 years ago, it was a perfectly common thing to do.

    Also, tell me one spot in Ballard in May of 2009 you would leave your older mother and two kids today. Name a single spot. I know of one I would leave my mother, but maybe I am paranoid. I would not even drop my mother and two kids of at Golden Garden for two hours alone. Would you? Honestly?

  82. Well, if you're going to take my examples so literally and use them to discuss parenting techniques, then I'll try and summarize my point w/out them.

    The more the Citizens use the parks for Good behaviour, the less the Thugs will use them for Naughty behaviour. Period.

  83. This has been mentioned on various posts here before, but it bears repeating. If you click on the face icon for “Free Ballard 4 Real” you can go to their disqus profile and see the following list of aliases:

    * The
    * Susan
    * Ballard Tribune Double Standar
    * susan
    * Ballard hippy tea girl
    * Wrong Meth House. Ha ha
    * San Fran Pete
    * Big Fight at Bergen Park
    * I dont know the lady but..
    * Meth Heads hate pretty things
    * Rockabilly Posers are as bad
    * Just pay you taxes and shut up
    * Starbucks Arson. Please read
    * I like Egans
    * FEMA Camps
    * Dumb question but..
    * Thursday Foodbank Panhandlers
    * Dumb Question but..
    * Food Bank
    * Sad story indeed
    * Take back our streets
    * The End Of Ballard
    * The kindly old woman 82
    * Good Riddance
    * Kindly old Norwegien Lady 82
    * Kindly old Norwegian Lady 82
    * The tennis player
    * Transients Virus Mules
    * No Ballard shopping here
    * No Ballard bars 4 me
    * No Ballard shops 4 me
    * Free Ballard again
    * Mike Donahue for Sherrif
    * Pay for our own cops?
    * Free Ballard 4 Real

    Boardbrown, you remember all the posts over the last few months by the person using all these different names. Remember “Susan”? “Ballard Hippy Tea Girl”? WTF?

    This actually strikes me as kind of funny, because this poster, at one time known as “Transients Virus Mules” is actually acting exactly like the Hoodie Tweekers that they rail against incessantly on this blog.

    If you think of MyBallard as kind of a virtual version of Ballard Commons and it's purpose is for people to come together and share information and opinions like they are neighbors hanging out in the park, then the posts of FB4R are just like the crazy homeless guy who comes up and starts talking a bunch of crazy s**t and if you don't understand what they are saying or if you don't agree with them they go crazy blaming you and your kind for sending Ballard to hell in a handbasket.

    To use your analogy, Boardbrown, I think that we should all ignore the posts by the people on the above list, just like a drunk in the park, and carry on with our bracelet party and maybe they will go away.

    Another thing….with all the aliases it's just like a homeless person, no permanent address, and no accountability.

  84. Wow, I see there's a lot of hatin' on here…Chopper sure has a chip on his shoulder, jeez.
    Badmouthing each other does no good, folks. As for the park issue, that tiny park off Market and Ballard Ave, Bergen I think it is, doesn't bother me and I walk by all the time. It's usually the same one or two transients, they aren't causing problems that I can see and they have not harassed me at all when I'm even sitting right near them. However that park over by the library and Bartells, that's a mess. I walked through there the other day and sat down for a minute to read a book, and immediately got back up because I was surrounded by drunk, yelling, aggro transient guys. I walk around a lot and have seen the same transients over and over for years; I do not think that they are flocking here from the CD or Belltown (like the “yuppies” are, I might add….hahaaaa) I feel bad about these people, they have mental and/or drug and alcohol and/or physical problems, but hell so do I (I'm a recovered addict/alcoholic). And saying “get a job” isn't a valid statement or solution, either. I can't “get a job” myself, I've been unemployed three times in the last 18 months due to layoffs. Don't know what the solutions are. What are we as a neighborhood to do? Closing the parks will not help nor work (duh). And why don't we talk about the HUGE motorhome/fifth wheel population in Ballard? I've never seen so many people living in their vehicles in one neighborhood in my life and I've lived in 10 different areas of Seattle. It's so disgusting to see their trash piled up, knowing they dump their waste in the gutter, seeing their neglected dogs locked up in the vehicles (and calling animal control), not feeling all that safe walking my dogs at night just a few blocks from my apt. I and my dogs have scared away drunken guys trying to steal from my carport, or sneakin' around my apt building, many times. If not for my dogs (yes they are on leashes), there would be more sketchy people on my street I think. Check out NW 50th at 15th, or over by Fred Meyer…Get rid of the motorhomes permanently parked in Ballard (why they don't get orange stickered and towed I don't know…)and I think the obnoxiousness will decrease dramatically. I reluctantly think we need more cops around Ballard, maybe on bikes like someone suggested, or how about on horseback? Well that's my opinion and as we all know it's worth what ya paid for it!

  85. Many people are addressing the motor homes by Fred Meyer. A matter of fact, if you go by there today, you'll see most of them have a big orange sticker on their front windshields. They have to move by tomorrow, 5/23. This is a very tough, tough issue. When we flush them out from in front of DSHS, some may end up in our neighborhoods. However, just today I learned that you can't have a truck or trailer greater than 80 inches wide parked on at Seattle city residential street after midnight.

    We must all keep pushing for the county and city to come up with a designated campground for RVs. Most importantly though, we can't allow the problem to grow by Fred Myers or near the Zoo. We've gone from handful here and there, to ten or more in a one block radius. If unaddressed ten will grow to twenty and twenty will grow to thirty….

  86. I had three derelicts purposely walk across the street and then stand three across in my path (blocking the sidewalk) pretending to carry on a conversation. I managed to go to their left, while they said nasty things. I was not dressed provocatively, did not do eye contact or verbally respond. Then one followed me to the intersection where he tried to start a conversation-while he reeked of urine, filth and cigarettes. That crosswalk light sure took a long time. Later in the day there were about four drunks at 15th and Market, one was weaving in the street, two more were weaving on the sidewalk and they were hollering at their equally woozy friend across the street. This was at 2pm. There are times when I do not feel safe walking in Ballard, even in broad daylight. This is no way to run a neighborhood.

  87. Ballard Coalition,

    What is your goal? One effect of getting the RVs towed is taking shelter away from homeless, impounding their shelter and imposing a financial burden to get their shelter back. This will mean more people sleeping in the doorways of businesses, in bushes, and in parks.

    Right now many of them are parked in an industrial zone, so it is legal for them to be there overnight…just not to sit still for more than 72 hours.

    If your goal is to keep people orderly, not drunk in front of your business, and not selling drugs in the parks, then maybe it would be better to get together as a group and say: “It is fine if you live outside of DSHS, but help us keep our neighborhood safe and clean. Help identify the bad apples and we won't bug you.”

    I'm conflicted. I'd like to help you clear the bad apples out, but part of this just feels like indiscriminate harassment of underpriviledged.

  88. Sorry Hilda.
    And folks wonder why I have a chip on my shoulder? jeez!
    When will citizens get tired of the 24/7 B.S. here?
    Let me know, when all of you 'touchy feely types' get done justifying nonsense.
    Just let me know, and get on with it, because it isn't gonna get better until you figure that out.
    btw, hear about the four undercover cops busting scalpers at Safeco? Did they go for a few lap dances after that?
    Yeah, we definitely don't have the resources to commit to Ballard…another lie.

  89. That's funny Ernie, thanks for pointing out. I don't think the multiple alias thing is that big of a deal though. If you click on mine, you'll get a list as well (but much shorter). Most were created as part of a joke in the body of the comment, or the name of the song I was listening to at the moment (Sabbath, dude!).

    But to get back to the issue, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Check out my forum topic “take back the parks”.

  90. Chopper, and others, check out the People who think that City Council Members should actually represent us group:
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=56608798654

    One of the problems that Ballard is facing is that we are in one HUGE police precinct. The same officer that comes to answer the call from Ballard is answering the call from Lake City, the call from the U-district, and the call from around Carkeek. Our city Council Members aren't geographically distributed and not answerable to a geography, and I think that is one of the reasons why our police precincts aren't smaller.

  91. Thanks for the link.
    I abide by my belief that the resources required do exist, and we are left out of the discussion consistently.
    A fish rots from the head.
    The individuals focusing precious resources on 'pet projects' like stripper gate, scalper gate, and traffic gate are screwing us. I'm sick of it.
    Make my city safer, quit lying to my neighbors.
    The resources exist. period.

  92. Chooper, I think you need to go attend more government meetings and have more personal conversations with civil servants and elected officials.

    Are there “pet projects”? Well, sure, depending on who's looking at it. As a cyclist, I think that the Mercer Mess and deep bore tunnel are pretty wasteful pork, but if you drive on the viaduct or through Mercer often, you probably think that it is absolutely essential! I'd rather we tear down the viaduct and just add more bus service, but half of Ballard and most of West Seattle would violently disagree with me.

    Our elected officials and civil servants are constantly making tradeoffs and compromises between people who are yelling at them demading them to do opposite and contradictory things.

    Even as a cyclist, I hear one group of people begging for bike lanes while another group rants about how horribly unsafe bike lanes are. I get similar arguments about sharrows, about trails, about roads, about sidewalks, etc. …and I'm not even a city employee or elected official, I'm just a bicycle advocate.

  93. The goal is to keep Ballard safe, clean, and friendly. Hilda list a great example above of what I have observed often. This isn't my personal mission. All I've done is to try to tie a lot of lose threads into one place. As for the campers, at DSHS, many us do not want to see this issue to continue to expand unchecked. At the end of the day, all we're asking for is that the laws we have on the books be enforced.

    The RV problem is a failed social policy. We have plenty of land and open parking lots for the city to find a place for these people and to provide a portable toilets so they don't have to use our streets. What we have now is lose-lose. It's sometime painful to rip a band-aid off so that you can properly treat the wound.

    The city has plenty of resources to address the RV issue.

  94. Anyone know why a transient was being slowly put into the back of an ambulance outside Zaks today? There was no rush going on among the half dozen responders and fire department guy, and to be seemed dead. I'm just saying…

  95. I mean “to me” seemed dead. Seemed dead to all the people in the crowd gathering around too. A tranisent came up at the end and told the fire department guy his name, and said he is a wekk known transient who lives in Ballard. The guy was not moving and totally limp. More dead looking than drunk it seemed.

  96. Boy, even if I had the time (which I don't), I'd never be interested in watching them make sausage, especially the inedible crap they produce.
    Too many cooks spoil the food, it's now all rancid, period.
    All volunteer leadership, meeting two weeks every quarter is all we need. Until that happens, you'll not see me at a single meeting. Sorry, but politicians make me ill. Especially the idiots that make a career of it.

  97. Really? You're going to call people “animals” ? Really??? The economy does suck right now, so that's probably a big reason stores are going under. Recession, much?
    I'm not afraid to walk in my own neighborhood and I'm a young woman. I'm more afraid of loud frat boys to tell you the truth….or people who call other people “animals”….

  98. Chopper, I used to have a pretty pessimistic attitude about government, and about a few big businesses too. I used to havethe impression that there was a conspiracy theory to screw me over, and as very libertarian ideal that government should be small enough to fit around a kitchen table.

    Then I went to work for one of those big businesses, got involved in a few ways where I interacted with civil servants and elected officials, and I discovered that *I* was the idiot. Politicians made me ill because I was stupid and I was not taking the time to consider the whole problem.

    If you aren't going to get out and do something then you are part of the problem, just as bad as the people you are complaining about. Now, I don't blame you, I was there too. I'm just encouraging you to consider it an extra class in government to suppliment the deficient education that most of us were given.

    How about a simple one to start with? Why don't you go attend some of the Parks Commission meetings. These aren't career folks, the Board of Park Commissioners are volunteers, they aren't paid, and they have a once-a-month meeting. The next one is on May 28th at 7pm at Woodland Park Zoo – in the Activity Resource Center near the West Entrance. There is a public hearing on Synthetic Turf, a briefing on Park Boulevards, and a briefing about the Zoo west entrance.

    I double-dog dare you to go to 6 of those meetings over the next year and come back and tell me that there aren't good people in our government trying to do their best for the common good despite idiots like us who think we know better.

  99. I've run across a few jerk bums (I love the PC term used here – 'transient') around Ballard, though like many others have said, not to the extent of other major cities experiencing even worse problems. But one particularly scary incident happened when I was in a car at the corner of 15th and Market. I was in the passenger seat of a car when I looked over my shoulder and a bum was standing right outside my window, appearing to be trying to opening the door (it was locked). The guy was clearly drunk and was asking for a ride to “get pills” from a hospital, holding up an empty pill bottle. I yelled at him to get away (smart, I know) and after a minute or two he drunkenly crossed back over to the area near the 15 bus stop, almost getting hit by a car or two. We called a non-emergency line to report him, but I don't think the cops showed up – I don't think the cops view Ballard as a priority over much less safe areas in Seattle.

    Though, to be honest, that's the only scary incident I've had with a bum here. I've had worse happen to me downtown and in the south end, even bums trying to grab me. I've never seen anything seedy going on around Market Street, though Bergen Place has been a drug haven for as long as I can remember. Do people really think that's a new thing or are they just new to Ballard? The parks have never been great places to take your kids.

  100. Ok, well here's the rest of my story.
    I was very active politically in my twenties.
    Was a precinct committee officer, was always at every meeting, was always trying to bridge the gap between the elected and the electorate. I spent ten years working for a goal, not to seek elective office, which frankly, was not appreciated by my peers, but I persisted anyway.
    I would have made a good politician, imho.
    But, that was never my goal, so, I lost my passion for the everyday Joe, who everyday acquiesced their sovereign rights to some career idiot.
    Yes, sorry, most of them are.
    When expedience gets in the way of what's right, that is, and always will be, wrong.
    So, I've already fulfilled your 'double-dog dare'.
    Hope that you had a good weekend.

  101. I'm sorry. It sounds like you got burned out. I am finding that being active is a tough place to be because a lot of people love to complain without actually doing something or taking the time to understand the problem. It seems easy to get so passionate that I can feel like I'm pushing against a brick wall…but if I step back, I can see that there really is progress, it just isn't happening at the pace that I want.

    I still assert that most of the people in our government are everyday Joe's too. I know that some of them are burnt-out and have lost their passion, others are ladder climbers, and I still believe that most honestly are trying to do the best for the community.

    I had a wonderful weekend. I hope you were able to enjoy the weather too.

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