Loyal Heights businesses tagged

Several businesses near the intersection of NW 80th & 24th Ave NW were tagged overnight.

This morning we spoke with this building owner who was covering up the black spray paint with a little paint brush. He says this happens every few weeks and he’s always out there as early as he can, “I come out first thing and paint over it so they don’t get the thrill of seeing it when they come by.”

While some of the graffiti looked like traditional tags, Larsen’s Bakery and Saleh’s were defaced with a smiley face.

This CasCioppo Brothers truck seemed to be the hardest hit with multiple colors of spray paint over the entire truck.

Geeky Swedes

The founders of My Ballard

115 thoughts to “Loyal Heights businesses tagged”

  1. Clearly Ballard needs a team of vigilantes to snoop around a night, hand out random beatings to those acting suspicious, and coerce protection money out of local business owners by day. That this was not the Scandinavian way 100 years ago, and it has clearly hurt our neighborhood today! All those in favor of forming the Leif Ericson Thug Buster Crew, say Ja!

  2. This is SO frustrating. Why do they think this is an innocent act? I feel like if a few of these kids were caught and seriously punished then word would spread and tagging would start to decline.

  3. Two thoughts –

    first – how do people feel about restricting the sale of spray paints and the commonly used marker pens to those 18 or 21 and older with ID?

    second – tagging isn't considered a priority by city council (so I'm told, I have not verified) it's not believed to be costing “that much”. I would like to start up a project that documents the repair bills faced by businesses/individuals on just the pure costs alone of tagging cleanup. Maybe we can use this data as a way to get some focused attention on this.

  4. Such a waste of taxpayers money. Lets get a penalty that suits the crime. Contact Sheriff Joe Arpaio New Mexico and get his thoughts. I'll bet he comes up with a workable solution. Ballard is getting to look like a ghetto.

  5. This article immortalizes these works of graffiti. However quickly the business owners paint them over, to try to discourage the perpetrators, these images will be available online forever now.

    Sometimes, it's necessary to show the images in order to convey the story. That's not the case here. This article could just have had the picture with the guy having pretty much painted over the graffiti at The Mail Box.

  6. I agree that Ballard is starting to look like a ghetto… the insane amount of tagging AND not to mention the increased number of drug users/dealers. Honestly I feel less safe everyday. Now is the time to take action and do something- because why would Ballard want to end up like Fremont!

  7. Wish we could have a grass roots solution to this. The fact is that in the big picture it's not worth the tax dollars it would take to find and punish the taggers. But odds are these are local punks whose guardians aren't doing their due diligence. If we as citizens could find and punish them in a just and memorable way, I think we could make a dent in this. If anyone knows of a legal way to fix this problem as a community, please share!

  8. Zephyr – I'm not so certain that it isn't worth it… I don't think “we” have any idea of what it's really costing “us”. I can say that from what I'm hearing from local businesses, it's costing them more for tagging clean up than for theft. Now… this isn't scientific, simply what I'm hearing. Hence… the data project I mentioned above.

    Also – the kids I saw tagging NBE, some of the same group of kids involved in using stolen credit cards a few months later. To think that these kids are “just” tagging – isn't what I'm seeing.

  9. These are your kids!!!! Parents start parenting. Do you think all these taggers live outside of Ballard? Wise UP! Start checking up on your kids. Look for the signs of stained hands and paint on things. Girls are tagging now in bigger numbers. Not just guys.

    Oh I know, your kids wouldn't do anything thing like this. Yes they would and are. They also think you are a chump for your naive attitude.

    There are people out there that will discipline your kids for you and more power to them. And then you will be whining on this same forum.

  10. The CasCioppo Brothers truck is a good example of why it is important to clean up tags right away. That truck has been gathering tags for weeks (months?) now, and it is clear that the taggers are encouraged by the fact that they aren't removing them.

    I second motorad's comment about it being local kids. These aren't hard core gang bangers fighting for turf on crown hill, they are more likely bored teens who probably need more parental involvement.

  11. Poor folks who own the building across the street from me, they paint, they get tagged. They paint, they get tagged. It sucks. Ballard is different now (and not really in a good way) sigh….

  12. I often ask teens about issues when I get a chance and have been asking about schools recently. I often hear disturbing stories about Ballard High. The students are never talked about in positive terms. I was told recently that there are at least 2 gangs with members in the school and that 1 was primarily a tagging crew. So these are kids living with parents and they can't all be from outside of Ballard.

    Frankly I am sick of self-deluded parents living in denial while their kids are thugs and vandals driving the family car or a car given to them to go out and commit crimes.

  13. You can. Ride around on a bike at night and you'll see them. A few skinny little kids with backpacks.
    What we really need to do is get them girl friends, then they won't be doing this anymore, but alas they are all such social retards that they wind up lonely and looking to lash out.

  14. I'm all for the complete banning of spray paint. There are cheap enough sprayers that can take the place of it for all reasonable uses.
    Short of a ban, the ID requirement should be like the sudophedrene laws where they don't just check your ID, but take your information down.
    You'd also have to ban or restrict acids for glass etching, paint pens, and fat markers.

  15. I've mentioned it before, but a digital picture of the tag and a database so that when the tagger is caught they are charged for all the instances of their tag and the associated clean up costs. An added bonus is to consider the tag as a legal signature, then it's very easy to prosecute.

  16. I'm definitely with Gurple on this – had the same thoughts as I read the article. GS, please think carefully when faced with such a story.

  17. Yes you have! I believe that you mentioned Pittsburgh does this. Hey! Something that my “hometown” is doing right. Who woulda thunk it? So how can we get something like that implemented here?

    I found this article about it. http://pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news

    Though since this involves calling the cops to have them document it, it doesn't look like it would really be feasible here since as has been commented multiple times, the SPD doesn't have the resources to give us the crime preventage coverage (beat cops) we'd like to see. Though I do view graffiti as an “entrance” crime. Once a community allows it, the doors are open to worse crimes. So how can we get the SPD to take action on this? This is all new for me.

  18. Catherine – I didn't mean that I don't think it's worth it. I bought my first home here in the spring and in under a month, my fence was tagged. Yeah, it pissed me off. So I know that it's not just businesses who have to deal with this crap. But unfortunately there are many businesses who have to deal with it again and again. I feel bad for the Mail Box owner who has to come in early to prevent the taggers from getting their satisfaction. Kudos to him for going the extra step to make this community a little better for the rest of us.

    What I did mean is that the SPD is likely to say that it's not worth it. From the discussions that go on in this forum it is clear that there are a number of things that the Ballard citizentry would like to see them do but that they aren't. Add anti-graffiti tactics to the list.

    So this is why I ask what we as citizens can do to make a change.

    If you view the article that I posted above (in my response to SPG's response to my original comment) there are some cost/budget numbers listed for the city of Pittsburgh. That money adds up. So it's easy to see with all the tags in Ballard alone, it's quite costly to clean up. And that budget could surely just scratch the surface.

  19. Print up a little google map of your neighborhood and take a walk around. Mark down on the map everywhere you see graffiti and report it here:


    Believe it or not, the city actually takes care of it, but only if it's reported.
    The other option is to get a can of Goof Off, some gloves, a couple old scrub pads and clean it up yourself.

  20. I've actually seen this happening once at our local bus stop. Of course I called the cops right away. At the time, I saw a younger kid waiting for the bus and spraying near 24th / 70th going away from Ballard. Little jerk!!!

    And yes, I am a little vigilante spying from my window. I call the police whenever I hear or see trouble. I invite you to do the same. This helps keep theneighborhood a safe place.

  21. You're fucking nuts people. It'd be ignorant of me to say you aren't entitled to your opinions, but your thoughts are so far off of the truth. Don't blame the parents, it's not their lack of parenting. Anyone who says that is clearly not a parent. Try encouraging legal outlets for these kids, be supportive of a budding artist, not a prude trying to squash potential. By the way, most of the spray paint is stolen, not paid for, you half-wit moron. Why don't some of you take the time to ask a writer ( not a “tagger” ), about their opinion on all this?

  22. I think if we present to SPD and City Council and Mayor and Police chief hard numbers of costs… that may shift their priority a bit, at least on the lower level stuff. It might also inspire some creative solutions from businesses and neighbors. Cameras? wall of shame where those caught tagging got their photos posted? How about a deal with Seattle Schools where students caught tagging got to go scrub off tagging?

    It's also why I'm wondering if making the tagging supplies harder to get might help as well.

    If there was a magic solution, we'd have done it already. It's going to be a bunch of work on a number of fronts. I just don't want to give up on pressure on SPD. They can be convinced to change their priorities with actual costs. It's part of how the car theft stings came to be. Once the real costs were tallied, enforcement became a priority.

  23. On behalf of all half wit morons who don't appreciate their homes and businesses being vandalized, I take exception to the budding artist comment. This has absolutely nothing to do with art. NOTHING. Look at the tags and tell me what art is there. Spray can control? Come on, that's the lamest justification that these little twerps come up with. Even by their own half assed standards these scrawls are crap. I have more appreciation of the skill of a housepainter that can do proper cut in work than the best “writer”.
    Let's ask the car prowlers their opinion of their craft too. I'm sure they'll have a lot to say about the art of smashing windows.

  24. Banning those materials is completely ridiculous. They have plenty of legitimate uses, it makes no sense to punish normal users rather than punish those that deserve it.

  25. Fuck off you ignorant prick. Just because you were beaten as a little boy doesn't give you a fucking right to talk shit about a craft. We put more work in a single night than you will ever in your lifetime as far as art.

  26. Yeah – I 'm afraid I have to call a giant BS on the “budding artist”. I am the parent of a budding artist who does fantastic work. And I spend a lot of time providing lots of legal outlets for the neighborhood kids. I don't care what they create but I sure as hell care WHERE they create it.

    Take some responsibility for your kid instead of justifying their delinquency.

  27. That's precious ultra. What is your tag so we know your crap when we see it? The attitude is funny. Parents should be held accountable for raising criminals, vandals and thugs. Yeah some kids are born bad but that doesn't let the 'rents off the hook. A writer? That is priceless. Taggers plain and simple. Who gives a shit what vandals think. You cost innocent business owners time and money to cover up your inept crap. If you are going to deface property, at least do something that exhibits skill with a proper piece. Support a budding artist? That would mean that tagging is art. I have heard enough from taggers to know that it isn't about art. It is about ego and territory. If taggers were interested in art they wouldn't be TAGGING. Graf art and tagging are 2 different activities. You seem to not know the difference. Maybe you should ask some artists next time you see them throwing up a great piece that is really art. Some of the people you are displaying your ignorance to here with your posts are artists or have been. They see through your trite 'punk' attitude and childish ego. Don't confuse what you do as art or craft . It is nothing but vandalism scrawled in the middle of the night by yourself.

  28. Ultra- I sincerely hope that you find a meaningful and productive way to express your ideas through art if that is important to you. Tagging isn't the way. If you are serious, in a few years you will regret the time you wasted. Or you could be doing this when you're 35 and that's just wack. I also won't feel bad when you tag the wrong property and are beaten senseless or dragged into the establishment where they can legally introduce you to Smiff & Wess'n. It's all counter-culture fun until someone draws blood.

  29. Poor little snowflake. Bwaaahaahaaa – art, I don't think so – that would take more imagination and skill than you'll ever have.

    Piss off back to your trailer park.

  30. The costs here are not being carried by insurance companies, so unlike car theft, there isn't an economic lobby putting pressure on the authorities.
    If you want to get a real result on this, we need to put pressure on city hall to increase the size of the police force and then more pressure to get the police deployed effectively, then for the police to actually follow up on investigations, then for the prosecutor…you get the idea.
    One thing we can do right now is clean up the crap that we do see right away, report the rest of it and get it to the point where the taggers are the ones who become frustrated that their tags don't last long enough to show their friends.

    To report graffiti, use this link:
    If it's on city property they'll get right on it, and if it's a business that is becoming a magnet for grafiti by not cleaning it up they'll apply pressure for them to do it.

  31. Insert your own random insult here. Now that we've gotten the pleasantries out of the way, please explain to me the artistic merit of quickly scrawling the same word on other people's property.
    In all seriousness I'd like to hear what you have to say about the artistic merit of tagging.

  32. For one, the truth is I bet that none of you that feel so outraged as to make empty threats as to what they would do if they were to actually catch some of us at work can stop now because that keyboard and computer screen that suddenly gave you the confidence to speak up ANONYMOUSLY doesn't mean you have the guts to approach us.

    Secondly, those “scrawls” that you say are so ugly do(after time) transform into art. Yes I said art. With a can in our hand, we can do what some of you only dream of doing, and we do it at night while you're hiding behind your curtains calling the cops. We have every right to call what we do art as those up in galleries that some of you admire. The only difference is the medium. And forget the whole parents are the cause talk because that has no affect on writers. A lot of you really are ignorant. We see you're side of the story. Believe it or not we weren't born with a marker in hand. But have you ever considered the other side? No. So can you honestly base an argument on a biased opinion without knowing what your opposition knows? Obviously someone wasn't paying attention in school when your teachers were telling you the Refutation part of an argument.

  33. no what the funny thing about this whole thing is, graffiti tagging bombing, didn't start here but in new york. and then guess what happened it spread across the whole world, you know why because it gave kids from the hood a chance to get “up” A little fame in their own block, and then around the city. Bottom line graffiti isn't for all you old Norwegian ballardite parents driving home from work and saying to yourself ” gee I really dont like looking at at that” its for the writers.

  34. and also “motorrad ' What is 'Graff art” its just graff buddy and also tagging writing bombing peicing stamping its the same thing it used to be different but not any more. tell that to one of the biggest writers in the city “aerubs” who tagged my work, he gets paid to do murals in belltown but still defaces a family owned business. it aint going to stop and if you don't like it get some paint thinner and scrub it off like me.

  35. DM: ” those 'scrawls' that you say are so ugly do(after time) transform into art.”
    I think you are confusing the concepts of art and beauty. You may find an accumulation of tags beautiful, the combination of color, the interplay of a new tag overlapping a fading one, but just because you find beauty in something does not make it art. This is also where you'll differ from most people in that to most of us the accumulation of tags is just plain fugly.
    In order for this to be art, there has to be intent. If the intent is to simply have your tag be seen, then the McDonald's billboard would be the best art in town.
    As to the claim that graffiti pieces are art, that can be debated and if we do want to evaluate them as art I'd say they are horrible failures. I haven't seen any graffiti pieces in all of Seattle that are anything but cheap derivatives of established styles that were stale almost 20 years ago. Nothing new. Nothing said. No communication of new ideas, just aping what someone else did a long time ago somewhere else.

  36. Wrong. Graffiti was around before New York was even New Amsterdam and had inauspicious roots. The first known example of “modern style” graffiti survives in the ancient Greek city of Ephesus (in modern-day Turkey). Local guides say it is an advertisement for prostitution.

  37. For 30 years toys have been trying to pass their shit off as art and have been laughed at. Tagging is dissed not because of the medium but because of it's lack of artistic merit. If you were truly creative you wouldn't be just lame vandals, you would work on the chops to put up serious pieces. As for aerubs still tagging while getting paid for murals, there are examples of douche bags blowing opportunities and screwing themselves every day. As for your parents, they obviously failed given your entitled self centered disrespectful behavior. If you were raised right you wouldn't be costing home and business owners their time and money cleaning up your scribbles. You are coming to a crossroads soon. You rely on people being meek and law abiding but hopefully one day you will run into a pissed off property owner that has a different code of behavior. And some of you will still be scribblers when your 35 telling yourself it really is art. That is even sadder.

  38. yeah that smiley face scrawled on larsens bakery was beautiful – the choice of the black paint on the white wall creates a wonderful positive/negative space.

    truely astonishing.

  39. Insane amount? Really?? I think you need to get out and travel (and not just to Fremont). While there is no acceptable amount I also think the problem in Ballard is still pretty minor when you compare it to other parts of the country.

  40. Cleaning up or painting over the tags right away is the most effective strategy to curb this behavior. That's exactly what they did in NYC to combat the graffiti in the subways in the 80's. When a car was tagged, it was immediately taken out of commission and cleaned up before being put back in service. 20 years later, the NYC subway cars are still pretty much graffiti free.

    When these morons realize that their tags will last less than 24 hours, they will find something else to do or somewhere else to go.

  41. Doesn't Matter –

    Aren't you yourself just engaging in the anonymous commentary that you condemn? And isn't creating this “art” in the middle of the night so you don't get caught pretty much the same concept?

    If this art is so valuable, why can't these artists create their masterpieces in broad daylight? Oh yeah, because it's not their property to create the art on. That's why it's called vandalism. Can't they just spraypaint their own houses? Oh yeah, their parents probably wouldn't allow it.

  42. “Don't blame the parents, it's not their lack of parenting. Anyone who says that is clearly not a parent. “

    I'm a parent and I do blame, in part, the parents of these brats. If it's 1:00am and your kid isn't home in bed – especially on a school night – you're a crappy excuse for a parent.

    Also don't even try to compare these brats to Basquiat, Bansky, Blade, T Kid, 123Klan or Haring. I've yet to see a tag in Ballard that had any artistic merit. By the standards of graffiti art the kids in Ballard are a joke. If you think any of this is art then you don't know the first thing about graffiti art!! These kids are not budding artists, they're bored – and most likely spoiled – brats and nothing more.

    You are right that a lot of it is due to lack of better outlets. Same is true for teenage shoplifting. People fail to realize that teens need a certain amount of risk in their lives. When people suck all the risk out of their lives by making kids have organized play dates, taking classes, driving them to school, etc., etc. the kids will inevitably find other outlets and graffiti, shoplifting and drugs are the most common outlets they'll turn to.

  43. @ SeaSpider… We're not talking about other areas of the country… we're talking about Ballard. And as you put it “there is no acceptable amount”, so why would you then contradict your argument by saying it's not that bad. I have traveled quite extensively- so don't talk about things you have no knowledge of. I give a damn about Ballard and not doing something about the arising problems when they're “still pretty minor” is just stupid. Get a clue.

  44. “Secondly, those “scrawls” that you say are so ugly do(after time) transform into art. Yes I said art. With a can in our hand, we can do what some of you only dream of doing, and we do it at night while you're hiding behind your curtains calling the cops. We have every right to call what we do art as those up in galleries that some of you admire. The only difference is the medium.”

    Your comments show how ignorant and young you really are. What you're doing in Ballard isn't art and I say that as someone who is a fan of graffiti art. This is graffiti art: http://www.otherthings.com/grafarc What in Ballard comes even close to this? NOTHING! It's just vandalism.

    You also don't seem to realize that many actual graffiti artists do have their work shown in galleries and museums. Others get paid good money to paint murals on the sides of buildings. If you were the great fan of graffiti art you claim to be then you also would have been at the Brooklyn Museum in 2006. But instead you're just a spoiled, ignorant little brat who doesn't know the first damn thing about art. You are so not even remotely close to being a Bansky, Pixnit, Lady Pink, Basquiat, etc. Calling yourself an artist is an insult to the real graffiti artists. If you want to be a real graffiti artist I suggest you track down a copy of “Stations of the Elevated”, “Bomb It”, “Style Wars”, and “Piece By Piece”. Watch these films and maybe then you realize the difference between pointless vandalism and graffiti art.

  45. Graffiti has been around since the days of the cavemen and some of it, such as the “Kilroy was here” tag from WW2 became famous. However the graffiti art movement did in fact start in the early 70's in NYC when a number of artists migrated to NYC from Philly and many NYC artists such as Basquiat began putting up graffiti near art galleries and started to make inroads into the NYC art scene. Prior to that there really wasn't a graffiti art movement.

  46. Not art – no way. This visual litter around town makes the neighborhood look trashy. It doesn’t improve the community.
    The public vandalism takes many forms and spray paint is only one medium. We feel sorry for those trying to run a retail business and someone keeps scratching and scrawling on your glass windows. Who has to repair and pay for it – not the selfish idiot that did it.
    How about all the scratching on the parking meter kiosks, gas stations pumps and bus windows? It does no good. You’d think that a pack of demented animals are gnawing at everything. That’s why it is useless vandalism – a complete waste of time, effort and money. Do something useful you fools.

  47. The problem is your “work” is crap! Look at some real graffiti art sometime and you show me ANYTHING you've done that is even remotely close. Seriously, you lack talent. It's nothing more than simple little scribbles. I love graffiti art but what I see in Seattle is incredibly lacking in creativity and just plain sad. You're just ripping off what other people have been doing for years. Trying doing something original and creative for a change.

    Think I'm wrong? Show me something you've done that's even remotely decent. Tell me where it's at and I'll check it out. If you're truly proud of your work you'll be able to do that.

  48. “For 30 years toys have been trying to pass their shit off as art and have been laughed at. “

    Really? So when one of Basquiat's paintings sells for over $15 million dollars that's being laughed at? When Klark Kent gets paid to create a video game that's being laughed at? The Brooklyn Museum, LACMA, MOMA, SFMOMA, Louvre, Tate and Grand Palais have no sense of artistic merit because they've had exhibits dedicated to graffiti art? Interesting.

    Just because the brats in Seattle lack any talent doesn't mean an entire genre of art is lacking.

  49. Ballard isn't as bad as even a lot of other parts of Seattle, and that's fine by me.
    One of the reasons it isn't as bad here is that there is a constant and concerted effort to remove it immediately. Why tag here if it won't last when you can go to Capitol Hill and not have it scrubbed off within a day?

  50. But doing real art is hard and takes actual talent, vision, and skill. Being a vandal and just declaring it as art is soooo much easier.

  51. Yep. The real graffiti artists like Basquiat had talent and worked at it. They studied Gray's Anatomy, went to museums, and were aware of other artists. These kids are just plain ignorant and untalented rebels without a clue.

  52. You're the one who said it's an “insane amount” and that Ballard was starting to look like a ghetto. I'm just pointing out that you're being just a bit melodramatic. Do you really think Ballard is a bad as the ghettos in LA, Chicago or NYC? Seriously? Have you ever been to the Bronx? Sorry, I'm not buying it. Just because we have some graffiti and run down houses doesn't put us in the realm of the ghetto. No way, not even close. Like I said, the graffiti problem here is pretty minor – and hardly “insane” – when compared to what you see in other places. If you think it's “insane” and that Ballard is a ghetto then you don't know what insane graffiti and a ghetto really look like. You need to get a clue.

    Also screw you for thinking I don't give a damn. I've spent plenty of my own personal time cleaning up the local parks, thank you very much.

  53. “first – how do people feel about restricting the sale of spray paints and the commonly used marker pens to those 18 or 21 and older with ID?”

    A completely pointless effort. You don't think these kids can't shoplift?

  54. “By the way, most of the spray paint is stolen, not paid for, you half-wit moron. “

    One more reason why you're not the artist you think you are! Real artists pay for their supplies, you clueless a-hole.

  55. Yes, and punish vandals appropriately. Knives and, more significantly, cars do plenty of damage each year when used inappropriately, but I still need knives to cook and many people need cars.

  56. @seaspider-Do you ever really read the threads or just a single paragraph? You obviously didn't understand the paragraph you quoted, my posts and others or you would not have directed this ridiculous pretentious condescending comment at me. I have made my distinction clear between tagging and pieces and if you don't know the difference then you should read more than the Graffiti summary out of an art history encyclopedia. Have you ever actually seen a photo of Basquiat street piece? He actually sucked as a graffiti artist. So why don't you give these artists a wall to paint on and actually support them in important ways. Your regurgitating art history 101 crap is so precious. Try to actually read the comments once in a while too and if you don't understand the words, google them on the interweb.

  57. Solution: Those of you who enjoy this graffitti “art” should invite these artists to freely tag your homes whenever they feel the urge, thus sparing the businesses and residents who do not appreciate this sort of vandalism to their property. You can have weekly gallery showings at your home of this art, charge admission, serve cupcakes, etc. I think it's a win-win.

  58. SeaSpider I never said you didn't care… don't read into what isn't there. I said “I give a damn”. I , as I hope many others do, appreciate you giving your time to our community. Why are you getting so bent out of shape?

    I think for Ballard it is an “insane” amount. Expressing my concern is hardly being melodramatic, it's not like I said I was going to hold up in my house and develop agrophobia because the social climate of Ballard is changing. But if you think that's being melodramatic- okay that's what you think… whatever.

    As for the ghetto comparison- I do know what actual ghettos look like, in our own country as well as third world ghettos (which are far worse). I did not say Ballard was a ghetto or turning into one… I said Ballard is starting to look like a ghetto (and this is merely comparing Ballard to itself, since that is the area we're talking about.. not NY, Chicago or LA)

    I don't think it necessary to be so angry and aggressive. I am not being this way with you… but if you feel the need to be victorious becuase you know what a ghetto looks like- yeah! score for you. Honestly people (*cough* you) need to chill out a little and be a little more compassionate… this conversation has gotten ridiculous.

    Either way my point has been made and I hope you get over whatever is bothering you.

    As for everyone else- thanks for the suggestions and I hope we can pull together as a community to reclaim the old Ballard we know and love. I'm all over that! :)

  59. True, but we've banned switchblades and instituted tests, licenses, and traffic enforcement for cars.
    Dangerous substances are regulated all the time. Some are deemed to be too much of a danger compared to their societal benefits and are completely banned like lead paint, asbestos, lawn darts, etc.
    For many uses a paint sprayer can be a perfectly acceptable substitute for a spray can, but it isn't as convenient or portable. Unfortunately that will be the trade off if spray paint is banned.

  60. I referenced Basquiat because he's someone most people have heard of. Yes, I have seen his street art – I've got 3 dozen books of his work on my shelf including the Navarra books (since you're en expert you're no doubt familiar with them?) I also went to the Brooklyn graffiti show in '06 and will bet good money I've spent more time in various galleries/museums and met more artists than you have. I also took my art 101 classes at CCAC which is a pretty damn good school.

    As for supporting artists, I've bought plenty of stuff from young artists as well as established artists and in the past have given money to MOMA, SFMOMA, Yerba Buena and other places.

  61. Hey, if you're such an artist, why be anonymous here? Come on out, identify yourself and claim your work that you put so much effort into. Instead of coming in and becoming ultra defenisive and offensive, why not present a valid argument for why what you do has value?

    But I guess you realize that what you are doing does not have value to anyone but you and your punk friends. And it's easier for you to be a punk wuss and hide in the dark of night than to truly be a legitimate artist.

  62. In all seriousness since we have a couple taggers commenting…

    Have any of you taggers tagged your own home or car?
    Would it be okay if I come over and tag your car?
    If no, then why not?

  63. HA!! A true artist wouldn't tag a nice white wall with a piece of shit smiley face. Now if you want to discuss “art” i.e., “graffiti art” let's talk Banksy. He's truly a master of the form. The shit you're trying to defend as “ART” aka “Tags” is nothing but a nuisance.

  64. Thanx fur tha edumacation! Really? An academic trying to win a pi$$ing match about graffiti/street art cracks me up. By the number of museums visited and books viewed. What an attitude of superiority. I was offended at first but your precious response put it in a different light. You have no idea about my background or a couple others here that seem to articulate well thought out ideas and arguments about art. The artist's experience versus the acedemic's ego has been a point of conflict for centuries. Hopefully you actually lived as an artist at one point as well. Might be good to reference an artist more timely and relevant to the taggers that posted here rather than name dropping a guy from 35 years ago.

    You are bragging about becoming an expert by going to all these galleries, museums and viewing books to see STREET art. That says it all.

  65. Excellent idea. Tag their car or bicycle (not as much fun) and follow them home,and if it is obvious they live with their parents, tag the house!

    When a friend's kid bought his first car, another friend of mine picked up a handful of pebbles and started throwing them one by one at the car. He had waited for 6 years for this moment. The kid shook his head and laughed a little. ” I deserve this, I was a prick as a kid. Sorry”.

  66. people are so fucking stupid and ignorant honestly nobody tags peoples houses/cars etc. just businesses and government property, so to come tag my house would be pointless what a bunch of whiners complaining about kids adding flavor and taste to all the bleak grey dull surfaces of seattle. get a life, graffiti will never die there's always gonna be a new generation of writers to take over the city. all you can do is learn to live with it but society needs to face the FACTS!!!!

    -keep crushin seattle.

  67. “people are so fucking stupid and ignorant” says the one who has no concept of punctuation or grammar.
    Leaving the attacks aside, and forgive me for reaching for such low hanging fruit, but let's get in to this a bit and try to parse your comment…

    You feel that tagging is an improvement to our shared visual environment.
    I feel that although the visual environment is far from perfect, I also realize that I must respect the taste, design, and intent of the people who do real work to create it and maintain it. I may have my criticism of it, but I don't think that I can reasonably say that I am so superior as to feel justified in taking an active role in changing it, like painting my neighbor's house to my taste. Basically, who the fuck do you think you are to believe that your taste in shaky scribbles is superior to the craftsmen who did real work to build this town? Who the fuck asked you to do this?

    You think that it is ok to tag businesses and public property.
    These businesses are not owned by robots, but by your neighbors like me. This costs real people real money and time to remove. But yo, like why don't you stop being wack and shit and leave up my peace yo? Because the city will fine a business for not removing graffiti. Beyond that, to everyone other than yourself, tags are just ugly. Really ugly.

    You believe that there will always be a new generation of taggers that will replace the one that stops tagging.
    You've basically admitted that eventually you will realize that tagging is a childish pursuit that you will outgrow when you mature and realize the error of your ways.

  68. I should add to the previous comment that if you think it's ok to damage a business that someone worked hard to build, why shouldn't it be ok to damage your possessions that I would assume you've worked to acquire? Fair is fair, and I think that I could add flavor and taste to your bleak possessions.

  69. If you had any talent you would be making cash instead of scribbling. You selfish disrespectful little prick. Who do you think owns these 'just businesses'? People. It would be great to tag your stupid parents house with flavor. They deserve it for raising trash. You tag someone's property, yours should get tagged. Get a freaking girlfriend for God's sake rather than trying to impress other geek vandals. It doesn't matter how many times you scribble your shitty little mark, you still have no value. The thing that makes me smile is that you will run into someone more stupid, more unbalanced and more violent. You will scribble your worthless crap on the wrong property or go over the wrong tag and you will get punished. Or just a random beating for being a disrespectful prick. It is coming, bank on it.

  70. Honestly I could care less if my grammer online isn't as up to par as yours. you sound like some white middleaged old hack with nothing better to do but complain about something you know you can't stop no matter how hard you try. whtevr arguing online about something is pointless. I guess you have to be a writer to truly understand the effort and craftsmanship people spend on their so called “ugly scribbles” to make them look nice. And I do see the other side to why people hate graffiti I agree there is graffiti out there that deserves to catch the buff but there is just as much out there that took time and practice to be able to create (believe it or not) Its all a matter of opinion I guess, for whatever reason I happened to be born with an interest love and passion for graffiti just like some people like sports, fishing, gardening etc. my passion just happens to be illegal. and I don't intend to give up on something I enjoy just cause some people might not appreciate it whatever enough of my ranting. holla at the homie ultra bdu^

  71. Yeah, the big tag of a penis and the word “F***” on the side of the corner mart at 85th and *th NW, that is beautiful art. Now don't get me wrong, I hate that business, all they sell are malt liquer and porn. I call the police about 3 times a week on drunkards in the alley way behind the mart. But I still don't think they deserve to have to paint over the tags that repeatedly are placed on exterior of the business. It is ugly, it is not art, and as to the claim that tags are only done on businesses and government buildings…. that is a blatent lie. My next door neighbor recently had to take the tag off of her brand new fence, and a neighbor down the street had to do the same. As a new business owner, if I ever catch any of these punks, you can be sure that I will not just call the police. Instead, they can depend on seeing the end of a bat, or the teeth of my dog on their arse. I have no compassion for them and thier “Art.” I went to art school, I don't recall there being offered any courses in “shitty tags.” Or even any as generous as “graffitti art through the ages.” That is because it is sh**. Not art. Get a life, take some painting courses, and then claim to be an artist. As a conclusion to my rantings I will add that owning a business means you work 80+ hours a week, and not always during daytime hours.. So it is quite possible for us to stumble upon said douch bags in the wee hours of the night.

  72. FUCK you and your “art” artfag bwahahaha and Fuck you snitches calling the pigs you must feel very proud of yourselves doing your good deeds for the day huh? ….fuckin square ass law abiding citizens don't SCARE me lol.

  73. I wasn't going to mention this because it will either sound like a threat, or pointless internet bravado, but anyway…
    About a year or so ago I was walking the dog and came up behind a kid tagging the back of a parking sign. I got close enough to yell “HEY!” and the dog took my cue and lunged, snarling and barking toward the kid. The kid shit his pants. Literally.
    I was going to commence with a full beat down but when I realized that he had half a load in his pants and the other half falling out the bottom of his pants leg I started laughing too hard to do it.

  74. If the property owner didn't request or commission the tag, then it's vandalism and trespassing. It costs time and money to clean-up the unwanted paint smears, so no wonder people get mad.

    Also, the city spends millions of our tax dollars on clean-up and that money could have been used for other positive programs.

    Vandalism is a waste of everyone's time.

  75. Why don't you be a real man (or woman) and do your “writing” in broad daylight? Alll you do is hide behind your keybaord and spout tough-guy talk and vandalize businesses at night when nobody is around.

    Since you think you're such a badass, why don't you meet us all at the corner of 24th and 80th tomorrow morning when Larsen's, Cascioppo, and the Mail Box all open? If that doesn't work, you name the time and place and we'll be there. Then we'll get to see how tough you really are.

    I'm guessing you won't ever show though since you're nothing but a coward who hides behind his keyboard and a spray can.

  76. “Honestly I could care less if my grammer online isn't as up to par as yours.” -You should. It will help you get ahead in life, for example, when you have to go in front of the judge.

    “you sound like some white middleaged old hack …” -At least I don't sound like an ignorant child.

    “whtevr arguing online about something is pointless” -but it does keep me entertained while working.

    “I guess you have to be a writer to truly understand the effort and craftsmanship people spend on their so called “ugly scribbles” to make them look nice.” -I don't need, nor do I care about the effort a vandal takes to create crappy scribbles. There isn't any beauty in it as it lacks form or substance. The beauty or craft is solely in your mind since only you find any value in it. Burglary takes effort too, but I don't find any appreciation for that either.

    “I don't intend to give up on something I enjoy just cause some people might not appreciate it whatever ” -The reason people don't appreciate it is because it is destruction. People also don't appreciate theft, assault, murder, child rape, etc and that's why all these things are illegal. Have you ever thought about why tagging is illegal? About why almost all people don't appreciate it?


    You people sound retarded. Those repair figures are blown up, you can fix the problem with $15 worth of house paint. Graffiti happens, get over it.

    Nothing's damaged, it's just a changed aesthetic. Don't like it? Don't look.

  78. “You people sound retarded. Those repair figures are blown up, you can fix the problem with $15 worth of house paint. Graffiti happens, get over it.”

    So by your logic when you get caught and get your ass kicked, fingers broken, and need stitches, should we then just tell you that beat downs happen and you should get over it? You can fix that giant cut in your face with a few cents of thread and those broken fingers will only need a dollar's worth of plaster. Get over it retard.

  79. Wow. 15 bucks of SOMEONE ELSE's money might not be a lot to you, but to me, it means I had to get up hours before I wanted to to get 3 hours of net income at a SECOND job (then there is the unpaid work painting the repair). So now I am just curious – are you given cash by grownups rather than earning it?. And you didn't answer the question about your own property – so let me get this straight: you wouldn't think I'd be an asshole if I were to spray paint a portrait of Hillary Duff on your favorite hoodie or Bedazzled your bike with pink rhinestones, adding that “If you don't like it, don't look”. Even you must admit that would sound kind of moronic, right?

    Paint your own room or locker or clothes however you like, and I'll do mine. But why should YOU be the one to decide how our common ares look? I like to use paint to express myself too. And true, To me, most of the buildings here are are ugly enough – why without draw attention to them with something that looks like my little nephew practicing his alphabet?

    Even if we fail to stop some ugly civic building project, at least we have the opportunity to go to a pubiic forum and have our say as a group. We have NO SAY about what you make us look at. Obviousl though, that's at the heart of it…. the whole idea, low self-esteemblah blah blah, narcissism, low IQ. And I know that you actions reflect a feeling of disenfranchisement, but because the are so undemocratic, they earn no respect or sympathy, just ire at our entitlement and immaturity. Y'know?

    At least just own up to it that this is about a small group of guys with nothing better to do than keep pissing on each others' bushes. This is a completely natural instinct and all, just like wanting to shit right there on the sidewalk rather than going to find a bathroom. But I am sure no one, not even you, believe we not better off to avoid such instiincts.

    I agree that these taggers need to get some Clearasil© and find a girlfriend or hone a marketable talent. I have known and been intimate with a few taggers and have noticed that they tend to have dicks on the teensy, soft side, – which confirms what we all suspect about their motivation.

    There's no excuse for painting historic brick facades. This is why people vote against skate parks, doy. And to the Banksy fan poster upthread, yes – Banksy ROCKS.



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