Students on a field trip from North Beach Elementary discovered a loaded Glock pistol on the beach at Carkeek Park today. “I picked it up, thinking it was a toy gun,” 10-year-old Vidal Glassman told KOMO TV. “No, it was really heavy so I put it down.” The kids alerted a teacher, and police were called. Investigators ran the serial number on the gun, and they say they’re unable to link it to an owner. You may remember last month at Golden Gardens Park, police discovered a loaded AK-47 in the bushes after a suspect was seen hiding it after a traffic accident. (Thanks LK and Rob for your help on the story!)
4th graders find loaded gun at Carkeek Park
'The kids alerted a teacher.' Good job, kids!
Woot! Free guns in the bushes in Ballard. It is like an Easter egg hunt these days.
Just checked. It isn't mine.
I wonder which model it was (e.g. G17, G19 or the G26). I own the G26 and love it! AND yes I live in East Ballard!
Just watched the Komo video and the Glock that was found is a G26 (sub compact). This gun is about the size of your hand is HIGHLY regarded in the concealed carry crowd. A lot of off-duty police officers carry this gun since it is so small and accurate. If you don't believe me go to http://www.glocktalk.com and see for yourself. :=)
How much does a G26 cost?
This very same thing happened to some friends and me years ago at Bitter Lake Park. I wonder how this happens?
I'll give the kid $100 cash. Since they can't track an owner they should give it back to him right? But really, thank God the kids didn't pass it around, monkey with it and fire it. Hopefully there wasn't one in the chamber. Parents, Tell your kids what to to when they find a gun.
True believer in said weapon…
G19 for me. The frame on the G26 doesn't eat up the recoil enough, and I've got a big enough frame that nobody can see if I'm carrying. East Ballard too!
G26 with factory night sights = around $600
G26 without factory night sights = around $500
OMG STOP SAYING THE AK47 WAS FOUND AT GOLDEN GARDENS PARK.
Actually read the article you are sourcing. Sheesh!
No doubt stolen from some jackass who doesn't have enough sense to keep his weapon secured. Smart kid for recognizing not to play with it.
There seems to have been an increase in gang and criminal activity on our beaches.
No link to an owner? No registration? Destroy it.
I would just like to thank whomever taught these kids what to do if they found a gun. Obviously, the message stuck. Good!
As in the Glock stolen from former SPD Chief Kerlikowske.
Wow…. Way too many irresponsible gun owners in this country. Probably why we lead all industrialized countries in unintentional firearm related deaths and total firearm related death per capita. It's great to know that almost any idiot can get a hold of one of these…..
I don't know enough about guns to debate that point with you. But my guess is this gun was used for an illegal activity, hence the dumping at Carkeek Park. I doubt it was left there accidentally.
wtf?
Nice retort…all those jackass's like police chiefs who can't keep track of all their weapons.
You never know…just like forgetting your cell phone or keys somewhere.
I have noticed that at Golden Gardens…to the point I don't feel comfortable there any longer. And there have been several incidents down there with assaults, etc. Not happy as that is my favorite beach and hate to see it get ruined by a bunch of punk kids.
I didn't pay $500 for my cell phone. But I get your point.
My son is a North Beach kid, and the prinicpal called (via the fancy recorded message) to all parents to let us know what had happened so that we didn't hear about it through the gossip mill. She also reminded everyone to talk to our kids about gun safety. North Beach does a great job of supporting parents to teach their kids about personal safety — they back it up a lot in school through assemblies and direct education. Thank God no one was hurt.
Maybe it is Kerlikowske's?
So how do we control the idiots so law abiding, gun owning citizens can feel safe?
How about mandatory sentencing and jail time for possession of an unregistered firearm?
To gun owners, you have a particular responsibility to support laws that keep guns safe and traceable, because it's your right you're protecting, and which you undermine by treating untraceable guns and gun violence casually and with light humor. Remember there's more than just the fun side of guns.
Whenever I read a post like this I think of a friend who was murdered in his home by a criminal bearing a handgun. I imagine that criminal felt much the same affection for his gun or guns as are being expressed on this thread.
Personally I'd like to see Ballard as gun-free as possible. Though I don't have a problem with responsible gun ownership, I do find it very difficult to determine what responsible gun ownership really is, since many people who believe they are responsible do things that make irresponsible actions likely or occur, such as getting drunk and doing drugs they think aren't dangerous, and getting angry to the point of losing control, or have sudden unexpected events like losing a job or breaking up that make them do stupid things. There's a big difference between doing a something stupid, which I think we have likely all done, and doing something stupid with a gun.
This is a shoutout to all those who have lost friends and family to handgun violence in Seattle. I'm one of you. Many great people who would otherwise be alive today are dead from handgun weapons. We need much stronger laws and enforcement so that guns aren't treated casually in our neighborhoods and parks. We owe it to those we have lost to stand up on these issues, even though it means confronting the brash enthusiasm of those vocal gun fans who are against laws that would require guns to be traceable and put in place some measure of accountability for gunowners.
we've heard a lot in this thread about what it's like to be behind a gun like this. What's it like for you to be facing the other end of the gun? What's it like to have a stranger or a neighbor or a criminal pointing a loaded glock at you? if you think it's funny, what if the person pointing the gun at you doesn't have your sense of humor?
Well if I point mine at someone threatening me or my family, I only hope it'll put the fear of God into them because otherwise they'll be dead.
This is absolutely horrible!
Hi Billy, thanks for your honest response and I respect you for speaking it. I think there are other people who share your view. IMO, this is a view worth serious and long consideration, probably more than you might take before buying a new car, since the consequences could be pretty serious — for you, your family, as well as other people.
You think you are very responsible and smart, but most people, including imo most juries in Ballard — would disagree with your reasoning at least in many cases. 1) Just because you think some is threatening you or your family, you are not justified in killing them. 2) even if someone has the fear of God, it doesn't mean they will react the way you expect, and you may kill them wrongly. 3) there are lots of legitimate reasons that people may not have the fear of God when you're pointing your gun at them, such as if they don't see that you're pointing a gun at them or fully understand because maybe they don't hear or understand you (like anyone who is wearing an iPod for example). If these seem like unlikely scenarios, remember it may be dark and you may have very limited time to assess these things.
You owe it to yourself, and to us, to think more about your view.
It's easy to think in simple terms about your own rights and how legitimate your actions are. Carrying a gun is a huge responsibility, because you are holding other people's lives in your hands, and that's a very high standard. Do you have the self control and patience and discipline and compassion and resoluteness to meet that responsibility? IMO there are plenty of people who think they should be gun owners who don't meet this standard. Too much talk about rights to gun ownership, not enough talk about responsibilities of gun ownership.
I hate seeing again and again how this story plays out tragically — well-meaning protector of home kills neighbor in misunderstanding, ends up in jail; brother shoots sister while playing with family gun.
I don't want my family to be threatened, as much as you, and as a neighborhood, I think there's a lot we can do to diminish threats. Get to know your neighbors, talk with each other about risks, know who's vulnerable. If there's a cop who lives on your block, get to know him or her. If you're concerned about property crimes, know who on your block is at home all day and who can be alert. All these things decrease worrisome threats.
First of all this is a very positive story..except for initially picking it up these children should make their parents proud, the reacted in the popper way.
outerballard,
your advice is well intentioned but mostly based out of ignorance (I am not using that term in the pejorative way)
The vast majority of people are good, the fully understand the consequences of using deadly force against another human being. Most people do not use deadly force without cause, and this is why the simple act of brandishing the gun dissuades the criminal and ends the confrontation.
Self defense is a constitutional right in this state, and prosecution of citizens who are forced to use this right is exceedingly rare.
In this state, the legal use of deadly force is dependent on a a three point test, If a reasonable person would THINK the following three items are true the use of deadly force is lawful. (This is not to say it is justified on a personal level)
1) Ability
The attacker must be physically able to carry out a deadly force attack
2) Opportunity
The attacker must be close enough to use the Ability
3) Jeopardy (Imminent)
An attacker is placing or is about to place a person's life in danger by using Ability and Opportunity
With all of this being said, unless you Do illegal drugs, sell illegal drugs or hang out with felons your chances of ever needing to protect yourself is tiny.
We do not have a gun problem in this country, we have an organized crime problem in this country. I am not a proponent of the war on drugs but the vast majority of violent crime in this country is directly attributable to the illegal drug trade. The blame for the violence is more appropriately placed with the prohibitionists and users.
Bla…I pasted my Draft version vs the final version.
I meant the last paragraph to say
We do not have a gun problem in this country, we have an organized crime problem in this country. I am not a proponent of the war on drugs but the vast majority of violent crime in this country is directly attributable to the illegal drug trade. If you are going to shift the blame for the violence from the criminals to a third party it is more appropriately placed with the prohibitionists and users.
Look, iloveseatown, i respect you, and I don't know everything, but you also do not know everything and have absolutely no basis to claim my views are ignorant, or to claim that Billy and the vast majority of gun owners are responsible. So get down off your high horse! You may be a totally responsible gun owner, and Billy may not, or vice versa, we can't know from the little posted in this discussion. My point is that responsible gun ownership is not a given.
Even if we accept your claim, that the vast majority of gun owners are good, that's not enough. Being good is a necessary but not sufficient precondition for being responsible.
I never said organized crime wasn't a problem. I do not believe that organized crime is the only problem.
I'll do you the good turn of hearing you out and you can show the decency to respect a view that's different from your own. If that's too much to ask, well, i guess i don't know what you're doing reading this ;) .
However, this post on a gun found in the park had no apparent connection with organized crime — if you're suggesting it does — I'd like to see your math.
i think that as kids can find untraceable guns in city parks, as long as innocent people are killed in single-actor gun murderes, and in accidents, as long as guns are cheap and responsibilities are not taken seriously, we have a gun problem.
I think i agree with you about prohibitionists being part of the problem of organized crime. (i assume you mean prohibitionists agains drugs — is that right?) What do you think of the comments expressed at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtT5KY6Tu10
?
outerballard,
You may want to re-read my post, it was not a personal attack on you, I was providing the legal requirements for the use of lethal force in the state of Washington.
But to answer some of questions in your post here is some “proof” that gun owners are more then likely to act appropriately in the highly unlikely even they ever have to use force to protect themselves.
I can't find any any specific studies about our state but here are some good statistics from other states with similar laws.
In Texas, the general public is 14 more likely to commit a crime than a CCW permit holder. They are also five times more likely to commit a violent crime. (Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September, 2000)
A different study concludes that the four year violent crime arrest rate for CCW holders is 128 per 100,000. For the general population, it is 710 per 100,000. In other words, the general public is 5.5 times more likely to commit a violent crime than a CCW licensee. (“An Analysis Of The Arrest Rate Of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders As Compared To The Arrest Rate Of The Entire Texas Population”, William E. Sturdevant, PE, September 11, 1999)
Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm. This number would include those who illegally brandished their weapon in a fight or argument.
Though the number of firearms owned by private citizens has been increasing steadily since 1970, the overall rate of homicides and suicides has not risen. (Prof. Gary Kleck, “Targeting Guns: Firearms and their control”, with supporting data from the FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1972 to 1995)
This gun was “untraceable” because it was not reported stolen, we do not have gun registration in this state or in the majority of the country, the transactions are stored by the retailers but they will not run a trace like that on a gun that is not linked with a major crime.
I think the gun was dumped by a gang banger (which is organized crime), because that is what they do to their contraband when they get spooked, they do it with crack, they do it with guns, they dump it and run. I do not have proof of this but in my mind it is the most likely case.
I know guns are dangerous, like many things in life. This is why it is important to teach your kids to do what these kids did. There are lots of dangerous things in life that you need to teach your kids about. Guns are way down on the list of dangers that you need to worry about unless they are also involved in gangs and crime but at that point you have already failed.
As for the drug prohibition issue, it is a great waste of resources and it feeds orginized crime. I am not a drug user, and to be honest I intentionally avoid those who are in my life, but I think the social cost of dealing with those people who abuse substances to excess is much less then the social cost of the war on drugs.
As per your get to know the police comment, that is a great idea, but mostly so that you get more patrol trips through your neighborhood, it is a small deterrent but don't expect them to come in like the cavalry when you need them. They may do it but they are under no legal obligation to protect you and they have their own safety to think about. The longest 5min of my life where when I had interrupted a burglary at my house. I had not cornered him but I had immediately taken a picture of him and his truck with my cell phone. My neighbor who heard my yelling called the cops (so kudos for your suggestion of getting to know your neighbors) and when the first police car parked half a block away the thief got more and more aggressive, yet the cop just sat there. Finally when two other cop cars arrived and he had the amount of backup he needed to insure his safety they approached and arrested the man. The cop came over to me afterwords and talked to me, he said he saw me waiving and that he couldn't approach until he had backup.
They want to make it home safe each day too you know.
Wow, your experience interrupting the burglary at your house does sound intense, and it sounds like you handled the situation well.
2 people are killed in gun violence every week in Washington State on average. Maybe that's not a problem for you, but it is for me and many other people too. For me, and perhaps for many more, who have lost friends and family to murder, the comment that this is not a problem, just really sticks in the craw.
My friend was working late one night in his basement office when he was shot 5 times and killed. He managed to call 911, but it was too late.
Yes, gangs and organized crime are problems too, but they aren't the only problem.
BTW, I never took your post as a personal attack, I took issue with your explicit claim that my statements were “based out of ignorance,” to quote you. So you may want to reread my posts. I've re-read yours ;)
Most of your stats are based on people who have CCW permits, when that is not a representative sample of gun owners in Washington State.
Here are some recent gun incidents from the past couple weeks:
Guard killed in robbery (Lakewood WA) June 7, Prosser: Elementary school locked down after student is found with gun (June 10), Man shot in leg in West Seattle Tuesday night over car sale (June 12), Everett: Man shoots self at gun shop (June 2).
I am very sorry to hear that you lost a friend in such an awful way.
Seeing as gun ownership is a right and not licensed the stats do not exist for the general population I had to give you the numbers that did exist. However we do have some statistics about gunshot victims.
71% of gunshot victims had previous arrest records. 64% of those had previous convictions and of that group the average number of prior arrests. These numbers don't change the fact that these people are still humans but they do show that the risk to normal law abiding people is relatively small.
I do not discount the negative impact of guns in society, but every year, people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times – more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds. Of these instances, 15.6% of the people using a firearm defensively stated that they “almost certainly” saved their lives by doing so.
In 83.5% (2,087,500) of these successful gun defenses, the attacker either threatened or used force first, proving that guns are very well suited for self-defense.
Every day, approximately 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a gun. In less than 0.9% of these instances is the gun ever actually fired.
Guns are an equalizer and a force multiplier, they allow the small and the weak to protect themselves from those who are physically larger then them. If we could wish all guns away today I doubt that our violent crime rate would change much at all.
Go back and look through the blotter sheets, there was an break in with baseball bats in Fremont last night, several burglary where they severely beat there victims and at least 5 stabbings in the past month. Do you want to ban baseball bats and knives too?
Anyway this thread has drifted way too far and we are both probably pretty set in our beliefs so I will close by thanking the parents of the kids who found this gun for teaching their kids to do the right thing and finding an adult vs. playing with the gun…they are doing a great job.
In closing, I agree that the risk of gun violence is low, but only when we're comparing US levels of gun violence to that of Mexico, Guatemala, Zimbabwe and Colombia, which are a few of the only countries that have a higher rate of gun violence that we have here in the US ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence ). As a Ballardite, I'd just as soon see our rate be closer to that of Denmark, (.26 Firearm homicides per
per 100,000 pop, ours is more than 10 times higher at 2.97); or Australia (.31) or NZ (.18). 65% of homicides in the US are committed with Firearms, vs 8% in England.
We can do a lot better.
I agree with iloveseatown…