This Thursday night is recruitment night for Cub Scouts Pack 100. If you’ve got a son in first-fifth grade and have considered the Scouts, this is an opportunity for you to ask questions and see if it’s right for your son. Tricia sent us the following information:
As a parent, you want your son to grow up to be a person of worth, a self-reliant, dependable and caring individual. Scouting has these same goals in mind for him and is one of the few organizations that teaches essential leadership skills. Scouting is not just another activity. Founder, Lord Baden-Powell called Scouting a “game with a purpose.” Our purpose is to help your son to grow in citizenship, character, and mental, moral and physical fitness.
The meeting is Thursday evening from 7 p.m. to 8 p.m. at Our Redeemer’s Lutheran Church at 2400 NW 85th St.
Of course, if you want your son to grow up believing that gay people and/or atheists are equal to him in every respect, you wouldn't even consider sending your son to Cub Scouts.
My son started in this very same pack 6 years ago and is still in scouting, it's a great program with a bunch of great parents. Thanks for keeping it going!
Just went to a climber's party/reunion….all of these guys were in Boy Scouts, then Explorer Search and Rescue, then Mountain Rescue. About half of them ended up climbing Everest. I'd say that the skills they learned in Boy Scouts paid off.
Just a real shame it's such a bigoted organization, as otherwise it would be wonderful. I'd be about as likely to send a son of mine to the BSA as I would to the KKK.
Speaking as someone who did not come from a religious family, I always enjoyed my time in scouts. I think you are mistaken to condemn them so absolutely on these points. The local chapters of the BSA vary much across different regions, and ultimately run to meet the needs of those who participate. While I've not participated in this region, or in many years, I would be surprised if a Seattle community group would condemn atheists and gays the way the group has nationally. While their positions on these issues nationally really bothers me, I'd really like to hear from the locals in Ballard about their experience in this group, before I jump to conclusions. Honeslty, at the cub scout level, I don't think most kids care about those things away.
Given the revelation that the SHARE shelter run by “Our Redeeemers” has been harboring a pedophile and sexual predator, I'd have to think twice before sending young boys to a cub scout meeting, or any other activity there, for that matter.
Talk about irony – yikes!
Really duck? Bigoted? My husband was a scout (and Eagle Scout) in the Bay Area with a troop which was associated with a Buddhist church. Most of the scouts were of Japanese American ancestry. There were others in the area also. The troop recently celebrated its 50th anniversary by inviting past scouts to its celebration. It was wonderful to see how successful many former boy scouts are now. In my opinion, scouting is a great organization for boys, especially today for many who don't have a father figure in their lives.
Saying ignorant things like that should require a month worth of participation in Boy Scouts for your son. I've known gays and atheists who have participated, and enjoyed it very much. All around, its a good program.
Scouting is like government – at the local level, it reflects the beliefs of the people who run it. When I was a troop leader (not Troop 100) and the issue was in the news, we sent a letter to BSA National Headquarters, signed by all of the adult leadership, stating that we would not let sexual or religious orientation affect our choice of either leaders or scouts. Never got a response, but we ran the troop the way we wanted to.
BTW, two of the members of my SO's troop in N. Seattle were…and are, gay.
I think Scouting is great for kids. I was a Girl Scout, as it happens. (and we met at Calvery Lutheran.)
It's obvious that all of you who are posting here really love Boy Scouts and some have happy memories of their participation. That's fine. I rarely take hard stands on issues, being a typical Seattleite, I just listen and go “hmmm.” But, not on this issue. I ask those of you who are disturbed by my stance to take just a few minutes to read the stories on http://www.scouts-honor.com/scouts.html and then examine your hearts. I rest my case.
I was a Girl Scout, too. The GSA is in no way related to the BSA.
I wouldn't call that ignorance, edog.
Yes, I jumped the gun a bit, but the analogy between the KKK and the BSA is not apt and stung me a bit. Gays and atheists can participate in BSA and work to make the oranization inclusive, while the KKK exisits souly to exlude and defeat people.
Edog,
Actually Gays and Atheists and Agnostics can NOT participate in scouting as either Scouts (kids) or Scouters (adults).
I am an Eagle scout, I would love to give kids the same experience that was provided to me, however I can not support the intolerance that has become the BSA today.
Their own statements on the policy.
“We do not allow for the registration of avowed homosexuals as members or as leaders of the BSA.”
“The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, ‘On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’ The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members.”
Why don't people who would really like to know about this attend the meeting as “this is an opportunity for you to ask questions and see if it’s right for your son.”
Maybe they can clear this up before you shoot down every post with the same reply. I assume the leaders should know about this and will explain there side. Its always good to see the other side.
One thing I don't understand is that if a church was having a youth group and said they wouldn't allow gays they wouldn't get half the crap that the boy scouts are getting here because their a church and everyone knows their stance. Boy scouts ARE a private club (seems to be religious too, so it would only make sense that this would be their stance) and can set their own rules, they do have that right.
My two boys were not in scouts for exactly that reason. Intolerance for gays and lesbians as well as atheists is a deal breaker for me. They went to Camp Sealth, though–Campfire Girls and Boys on Vashon.
And, I was kicked out of Camp Fire Girls for being an atheist…in 1967 (they've changed their stance since then, but I am still not happy about it).
I'm with duckinseattle on this one. The organization may be more diverse and “tolerant” in this area (Seattle) but as a national organization they are not. I choose not to expose my child to ideals and activities that exclude others. They're closely linked to the LDS church which funded the passing of Prop 8 in California. No thank you!
While I most certainly do not agree with that part of the BSA, it still doesn't negate the positive experience and growth my husband and many others experienced. His troop did not pledge an oath to God (obviously being Buddhists) and they did not teach hate and intolerance of any group, including the GLBT community. I believe each local group has the power to change and educate the national organization. The best way to do this is to encourage more progressive minded people to join BSA. What better way to change it than from within.
Edog, gays and atheists can participate in BSA and work to make it inclusive, but they can only do this IF THEY LIE ON THE APPLICATION FORM. Have you seen it? I couldn't bring myself to sign it.
When I was in the boy scouts, it was a regular gay training ground.
Best years of my life.
Got to agree with edog on this. No mention of sexuality or religion when I was a cub scout.
I think you're confusing the upper-level Boy Scouts with the younger Cub Scouts. In any case, as with many large organizations, I think you'll find the national organization people care more about rules/regulations/organizational bureaucracy while the local groups care about having fun, teaching skills, and so forth.
Remember that it was the high turnout of black voters that put Prop 8 over the 50% mark — do you want to attack them, too?
Not sure what you mean by “closely linked to the LDS church” — I sure didn't see any Books of Mormon when I was in the Cub or Boy Scouts. Maybe you've found another DaVinci code?
As others have said, unless you're planning on a career in the BSA national organization, you'll be dealing with your local pack/troop, which is made up of your neighbors.
I wasn't going to gamble my kids' well being and sense of self worth if they happened to have been gay. I mean, who knows? At this point in their lives (19 and 23) they appear to be straight but I wouldn't have used them as guinea pigs in an anti-gay (let alone anti-religious tolerant) organization.
I am sure I would have been kicked out as a parent, much to my kids' mortification.
Looks like you need to do a little research Mondoman. I'm not attacking anyone. I'm raising my children to treat people equally, to be inclusive, open minded and loving. I choose to put our time and money towards organizations that encourage enrichment of all youth regardless of race, sexual orientation, religion, etc. It's too bad that the BSA has chosen a different path…one which doesn't cross with mine.
Mondoman,
No the cub scouts are under the same policies, the only way to join as a child or an adult is to lie about your sexual orientation and lack of a religious belief.
OK, you choose not to expose your child to ideals and activities that are intolerant, exclude others, or are closely linked to the LDS church…
Surely you realize you've just excluded yourself from your child's life?!?
Maybe involvement with the Cub Scouts can help you both learn about tolerance.
Please re-read the response from Greg d from 14 hours ago and respond.
Don't assume Seattle does things any differently than the national organization – there are problems with what this organization teaches and with who their leadership is. Brad Allen, the Scout Executive of the Chief Seattle council, was involved in a sexual-abuse case with Scounting in Idaho and he did nothing – a judge said “cultural atmosphere of ignorance and naiveté exists to such an extent that the very purposes of the organization are ignored for personal reasons, resulting in circumstances where youths who should be protected are preyed upon.”
Here is the full article…
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews…
They are a private organization, but that should not excuse bad bahavior and putting kids at risk.
But you're missing the point Mondoman. when you sign the application you are agreeing to the national organization's rules, so if you do not hold the same principles, the only way to join would be to lie. It seems counter to the entire organization's purpose to have the first act in joining to be showing how little one's word can mean. Same goes for reciting the oath.
Sure a lot of work can be done to change the organization from the inside, but I won't encourage an “end justifies the means” approach with my children.
This is awful! At least, we finally got some local perspective on the scouts.
Actually, I found their logging practices on their local camps to be pretty upsetting too.
http://www.seattlepi.com/specials/scoutslogging/
Do Buddhists count as atheists?
I took a look at the application form, and there's nothing there about sexual orientation. Here's what it says about religious belief: “The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing
an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but
it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.”
This sounds to me as though atheists aren't welcome, so in essence it's like a non-denominational church.
Just pointing out that attacking the CA Prop 8 voters may include attacking some groups you find it less comfortable to be against than the LDS.
Fair enough — I suppose you wouldn't join a church in order to try to convert it to another religion!
I guess I have to say it AGAIN (sigh)…I'm not attacking anyone…jeez Mondoman.
Obama was a boy scout. He should have to answer for his involvement in such a bigoted organization that wastes natural resources for profit.