Here’s a look at proposed changes to the intersection at 24th & Market.
Proposed changes. A larger version can be found here.
As we wrote last week, the Seattle Department of Transportation is working to make Metro routes, mainly the 44, more reliable from the U District to Ballard. One of the intersections to be affected by the changes is at 24th Ave NW and NW Market Street.
Current conditions. A larger version can be found here.
The Ballard District Council has voiced concern about these changes. We spoke with Catherine Weatbrook of the BDC who says that the changes may do what SDOT plans “at the expense of every other user, including other bus routes, just not the 44,” she says. “We didn’t really find that acceptable.” Weatbrook recently sent this letter (.pdf) to Peter Hahn, the director of SDOT, on behalf of the BDC. Hahn replied by inviting Weatbrook and two other Ballard representatives to join him and observe that intersection next week.
Bill Bryant with SDOT tells us that the specific design of the project is expected to be completed in April and construction could start sometime between late this year and late 2012.
This city is run by complete idiots. They appear to have no idea whatsoever of what actually takes place at this intersection, or anywhere else in the real world, for that matter – either that of they’re consciously trying to make things worse (the mayor’s war on drivers).
Some of the things that this proposal gets wrong….
Eastbound on Market St. – there are 5 lanes of pavement to work with:
1. Two lanes going west, fine. 3 lanes going east, but the southernmost lane, which is the right-tuen lane for heading south onto Shilshole, is only about 2 car lengths. This makes it completely useless for everyone going in that direction (which has got to be the majority of the traffic entering this intersection from the west), except for the lucky first car. Traffic here often gets backed up all the way to Taco Time and beyond. Here we have the brilliant planners completely ignoring the majority of vehicle traffic. With 24th squeezed down to one lane south of 65th, most drivers who live west of 24th and south of 65th are going to be using this route, and it’s badly backed up most any time during the day and often on evenings (weekends, it’s a traffic disaster, with everyone coming from the Locks/Golden Gardens added). The solution for this clusterf**k is to eliminate ALL the parking on the south side of Market. St. all the way east to 26th (and keep the delivery trucks from blocking it, which they routinely do now). You doubt that’s needed? I suggest you go to Google Maps and look at the aerial photo of Market St. there – traffic in the right lane is backed up west all the way past 26th – no doubt most of those cars sitting there spewing exhaust are waiting to turn right onto Shilshole.
2. The northernmost eastbound lane will become a left-turn only lane, for traffic eastbound turning north onto 24th. This will further choke off the traffic heading east down Market Street into just one lane. This will force even MORE traffic into that one lane that’s already backed up to 28th or further (because of all the traffic that wants to turn right onto Shilshole but can’t). The northernmost eastbound lane should NOT become a dedicated left-turn-only lane – there’s little traffic that goes that way, and it’s certainly not worth dedicating that lane to that purpose, causing even more traffic to funnel into a single, blocked lane. Leave it as a straight-thru OR left turn lane (with a short, protected left turn arrow).
But no, they can’t have that, because they are choking off the east side of that intersection down to just one lane going eastbound, and – get this – the one lane that does squirt through going east, has to weave over CHANGING LANES WHILE IT GOES ACROSS THE INTERSECTION, moving over to the southernmost lane once it’s east of 24th! Oh, that’s going to work just great.
Good god, these people are breathtakingly stupid.
that eastbound lane congestion on market just doesn’t look right. throw a bus into the mix and there will surely be a long annoying line of traffic.
i use this intersection often and really don’t see what the big problem is, other than the weird merge/mad dash that happens on southbound 24th heading to shilshole…
Please add the Farmers Market on Sundays to the traffic disaster. It takes forever to get up to (and make) that right hand turn onto Shilshole. Since Shilshole is a nightmare between the inattentive drivers looking for a parking space and the street-crossing stroller drivers, I try to take the long way around. I just avoid downtown Ballard altogether.
And now, it’s going to be even worse. I agree, they need to remove those parking spots in front of the vet clinic, and let people get through that intersection. And hell yeah, how many people turn left from Market to go north on 24th? Ridiculous!
I go up 24th! What I don’t think is a good idea is taking the southbound direction on 24th from 2 to one lane, straight and one lane turning…JAM on Market between 22nd & 24th. Unless you live in Ballard and drive this everyday, one shouldn’t be making the changes.
Yeah, echoing WeAreDoomed, I too don’t understand the plan to dedicate a green-arrow lane to eastbound drivers turning north onto 24th. Seems like a waste. Most people coming from that direction probably take 32nd and cut across at 65th or farther up there.
No matter what happens things will be a mess and probably looked at again and again. It seems to me that the more our city government does for us the more they do to us. I wish they’d throw in the towel and have yaks and cows wandering Market St. I mean traffic does somehow move in most Indian cities. Lots of diversity there. Everybody gets along. I vote for yaks in 2012.
All these changes to an intersection, just because one bus route is slower than people want it?! Adjust the bus route! Lordy. I drive through this intersection daily, and bus through about 3x/week, and I’ve never had trouble – except eastbound Market on summer weekends. Then, yes, it backs up back to the Locks. As a local, I’ve learned to avoid that whole part of town on sunny days, and if I need to go east I use 65th or 80th.
I agree with you on this part:
“It seems to me that the more our city government does for us the more they do to us.”
Bingo. Wake up, citizens: every time the city shows up with some “improvement”, your life is going to get worse.
Hey Seattle: we don’t want your “improvements” – all they do is make the quality of life that we used to enjoy worse. Go away, impose your “vision” on some other poor suckers, and leave us the f**k alone.
Just another small skirmish in the city’s war on drivers.
Why all the shock?
Look at how the eastbound traffic on Market is supposed to swerve and shift one lane south – as cars are crossing the intersection! Seriously? Are you kidding me?
Are there any other busy intersections in Seattle where traffic is required to shift over one lane from one side of the intersection to the other? Unbelievable.
Oh, wait. I bet this was supposed to be released on April 1 but was mistakenly leaked 3 weeks early.
Oh you guys at SDOT, you have a great sense of humor – they really had me there for a minute! Har har – good one!!!
I think many of the commenters here are missing the point…from the earlier story: “…instead, the signal would be upgraded into a more modern operation and lanes would be re-striped on Market in the immediate vicinity of the intersection.”
Structuring the lanes like this with dedicated-lefts will allow the signal to make more sense, as opposed to the round-robin timer thing that goes on now. There are quite a few intersections like this in the Bellevue area, and they work far better than 24th/Market or (the only other dumb one-source-direction-at-a-time one I can think of) 85th/Greenwood.
I do agree that Eastbound traffic on “Gee gaw honey, let’s go to Golden Gardens!” days is going to be even more insufferable (for drivers and 44 riders) than it already is with this change though…
n/m, eastbound was right. poor reading comprehension…
You mean Westbound drivers, right? The reason is that it gets them out of the straight lane so the signal can be “intelligent” about where the green time is going. That said, that’s way more critical in the *right* lane there, as drivers turning south sit and wait for pedestrians who don’t know what a blinking hand means and cyclists who think they are pedestrians when on their bikes.
Surface transportation is for suckers.
I’m with SPG on this one.. the intersection is a fuster cluck. But since I fly two wheeled style I don’t really care what the cagers do. There is always room on the side walk.
Looks to me like they are pulling the parking back slightly from 24th. That’s good, right? Why all the crying?
WeAreDoomed,
The LAST plan for the intersection (floated about a year ago) removed 2 parking spaces in front of Market Arms permanently and negated the next 4 spaces during morning rush hour.
There were many other dumb things about that plan, but this particular detail was spot on. Who wants to bet that Hamburger Helper’s and the other businesses bargained them down to zero.
Let’s get rid of a few city planners who seem to have nothing better to do than “make up” problems. Hey Metro add a few more buses, adjust the schedule or something. Don’t totally screw up traffic for the rest of us. And as to getting “out of my car”. Well I live in Greenwood and it would take me TWO Buses just to get to Ballard and 20-30 minutes if I am lucky.
I can be there in about 10 minutes in a car. Which mode of transport do you think I am and will continue to take?
cyclists are pedestrians when they are in a crosswalk, regardless of whether they’re on their bikes or not
You are exactly right.
Speeding up the 44 between Ballard and Montlake has benefits for thousands of people. Yes, you need to transfer but yours is not a common trip during commute times.
Why doesn’t the SDOT concentrate on fixing Market Street and 85th instead of messing with what is working. Seattle’s streets are a disaster. SDOT’s lack of maintenance makes Seattle look like a 2nd class city.
Excuse me but I personally know of numerous people who live in Greenwood and work in the Ballard area. And I sincerely doubt there are thousands of people riding the 44 during commute hours.
My goodness there sure are a lot of armchair traffic engineers on here.
Second Class? In their dreams. Fifth class on good days.
Any amateur idiot would be better than the professional idiots we have inflicting these disasters on us. With clueless dolts like this wrecking our streets, I agree – we are doomed.
Yet another POOR idea from DOT. It’s too bad all the C and D students end up in Government. This solution does not fix anything and will actually make traffic MUCH worse. It’s a flawed design.
The number 1 issue in the summer traffic if pedestrians. All of those Left and Right hand turns lanes are worthless because they are so short that only one or 2 cars can queue up. Even in the winter 4-6 cars will be turning right down Seaview Ave. The single left turn lane is also a fail on 24th South because the majority of traffic is going left . WTF would you add a choke point?
SDOT… Here is your solution. NO LEFT TURN on Market going West. Don’t waste a right turn lane on 24th south!
This plan also completely over looks the cyclist that are traveling down 24th onto Seaview both North and South.
Thanks SDOT for yet again proving that every dollar that goes your way is wasted on idiotic ideas like this.
Northbound needs to be changed to a left turn only lane with a decent length right lane for straight and right turns. The left lane gets all backed up but no one who’s going straight gets in the right lane.